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Recommend a good chronograph?

willbdavis

willbdavis

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I'm just getting into reloading rifle cartridges. I'm told I need a chronograph to verify the velocity of the cartridges I'm loading and confirm consistency.

I see plenty for sale. I don't have any basis for choosing one over another. Can anyone recommend a good chronograph that won't break the bank?
 
In my opinion, the CHRONY brand is the best deal. Their Beta Master model is pretty well rounded, available a lot of places, and economical for all that it does!

Details here: http://www.shootingchrony.com/introduction.htm

Models shown here:
http://www.shootingchrony.com/products_SCMMCM.htm

They even have some refurb items for sale at an even better deal.

As long as you don't shoot any chronograph, it will last a lifetime.

Beta_Master%20Chrony.jpg
 
If I had to buy one again I would spend a bit more to get the remote screen.

If you have a range where you go to and no one else is on the line then its ok. You can walk up to it and hit buttons whenever you want.

If you set this up on a firing line and have others shooting next to you, then it's rather difficult to hit any buttons without inconveniencing everyone else.

I have the Chrony Masta Beta
 
I had a shooting Chrony and even shot it, and sent it in for repair/replace it worked well for years until I left the battery in too long and the acid rotted all the electronics. I spent more on a PACT to replace it but the Chrony, pad of paper and $3 calculator worked just fine.
 
Fantastic ammunition can be loaded without one. I've loaded lots of ammunition for match shooting all the way out to 1000 yards without one. None of what you said really implies needing a chronograph.

B
 
Underwhere said:
If I had to buy one again I would spend a bit more to get the remote screen.

If you have a range where you go to and no one else is on the line then its ok. You can walk up to it and hit buttons whenever you want.

If you set this up on a firing line and have others shooting next to you, then it's rather difficult to hit any buttons without inconveniencing everyone else.

I have the Chrony Masta Beta
Click to expand...

You should have bought the Master model

How is the LED setup working indoors? I wish I could chrono indoors. It's not a big deal in the summer but it sucks in the winter trying to work up a new load.
 
I have a Chrony with a bent metal rod due to hitting it with a bullet. Apparently it happens, but shouldn't. I have a hard time getting the bullet to register sometimes.
 
Competition Electronics Pro Chrono. I have the bare bones model that is just a down range unit with the controls in the chrono itself. Kind of a PITA to go downrange after each string but the simplicity does have a certain appeal. My chrono has worked flawlessly for 25 years. The basic unit is about $100 but can be upgraded to remote control and a printer.

Avoid PACT products; their customer service sucks!
 
I have a Beta Master NIB and a Pact as well. Haven't used either one yet but that's about to change ASAP.[smile]
 
bpm990d said:
Fantastic ammunition can be loaded without one. I've loaded lots of ammunition for match shooting all the way out to 1000 yards without one. None of what you said really implies needing a chronograph.

B
Click to expand...

If you reload, you need a chrono. If you don't know the velocity of your loaded rounds you really don't know what you are doing. You are just guessing.
 
I've been using an F-1 Master Chrony for over 10 years without issues. Rechargeable 9V batteries have proven a good idea also.

JR
 
Gammon said:
If you reload, you need a chrono. If you don't know the velocity of your loaded rounds you really don't know what you are doing. You are just guessing.
Click to expand...

To say that you don't know what you are doing is incorrect. Velocity is only really relevant in a few applications, none of which was mentioned by the OP. He indicated that people told him he needed a chronograph. I disagree that someone needs a chronograph to load excellent rifle ammunition because I've loaded match winning ammunition by looking at the target.

B
 
The velocity info in the reloading data books is, generally speaking, close to what you might expect if you reload with that recipe. The game chamger is that they didn't test with your gun, so your gun will show different velocity details. It would be close though.

The chronograph only confirms what you believe to be true.

For me, it's more important to chrony long distance rifle rounds. Jumping from 100 yards out to six hundred yards, and knowing the BC of a bullet along with the muzzle velocity will give you your dope for the scope.
 
I can't find sky screens for my PACT but I think it was used that way by my friend anyway. He said it was much better than the Beta Master by far.

Tried to locate screens from PACT with no luck. Can't even get a phone call or reply to email.
 
If you still have your rods, then you can use any OPAQUE material. Some hot melt will attach the rods.

Fixxah said:
I can't find sky screens for my PACT but I think it was used that way by my friend anyway. He said it was much better than the Beta Master by far.

Tried to locate screens from PACT with no luck. Can't even get a phone call or reply to email.
Click to expand...
 
DukeInMaine said:
The velocity info in the reloading data books is, generally speaking, close to what you might expect if you reload with that recipe. The game chamger is that they didn't test with your gun, so your gun will show different velocity details. It would be close though.

The chronograph only confirms what you believe to be true.

For me, it's more important to chrony long distance rifle rounds. Jumping from 100 yards out to six hundred yards, and knowing the BC of a bullet along with the muzzle velocity will give you your dope for the scope.
Click to expand...

MY experience has taught me otherwise. I have had results that vary over 20% from published data in pistol rounds and the rifle reloading I do is mostly for short 16" barreled ARs that don't come very close to the published data for 223.

One thing to consider is a lot of this published data is obtained from test barrels; not a real rifle or pistol. Carefully maintained chrono records can yield a wealth of information. The only way you can understand what you are doing is to measure the velocity of your loaded rounds. Anything else ie guesswork.
 
PS The chronos we are discussing here can be had for $100 or less. This is a small price to pay to take the guesswork out of your relolading.
 
To me, at my stage of reloading (not in any competitions), I use a Chrony as a sanity check and to give me peace of mind.

Without a Chrony, I have no way of knowing if my loads are in the range I expect them to be. Without seeing signs of over pressure, or a kaboom/squib, it allows me to check my rounds (mostly pistol at this point) to know that I'm in the ballpark I expect.

For example, if my scale was miscalibrated from the factory, I have no other way of knowing that I'm really dropping a 5.1 grain powder load. Yes I check my scale with the supplied calibration weights, but how do you know these were manufactured properly and are not out of tolerance?

The load manuals give me a expected velocity of a given load (yes, possibly with a different barrel), so it gives me a ballpark to shoot for. If my loads are close to the velocity given, then it tells me that I have everything about right.

I suppose this thread is drifting away from 'reccomend a good chrony' and transforming into a 'does one really need a chrony'.
 
I have a Chrony Archery unit, it's older but it works just fine. The readout is starting to fade and get hard to read even with a new battery. I may upgrade to the Chrony with the separate display and controls or a CED.. Not sure yet.Reloaders should have a chronograph.

Just because you CAN do something and be successful, doesn't not mean you SHOULD do it that way. To address what BPM said, could you load good ammo? Sure. Will you know how fast it's going? No. Different things effect how your ammo behaves, as I am sure you are well aware. Neck turning, neck tension, neck thickness, weight of brass, type of primer, brand and lot of primer, etc. There are a lot of variables you can change, but you never really know what effect they have on the performance of your finished round. Barrel harmonics change with velocity I want to know how fast those bullets are leaving. Accuracy is often like a sine wave, I like to start slow and ratchet up to max stated loads. The accuracy it will go up and down as you creep through the escalating speeds. At some point (hopefully) one of those speeds will show your best accuracy. "I want to know the velocity at that point." As I change my variables I want to see how that effected the velocity and accuracy. Yes you can shoot enough of that ammo and look at your targets, but I want to know exactly.

If you have gotten along your whole life without one.. Great. Some folks go for the minimalist route. I'm a gadget guy and I like to try things out and see how they can help me. For instance. My indoor range doesn't allow 7.62x25 Tokarev because it is around 1560-1600 ft/sec. So, I cast some 112gr SWC bullets and loaded down to .5 grains over the gun functioning sporadically. Now I have case bullets going 1050 to 1100 fts. I showed the data to the range guy and there is no problem with me shooting that gun.
 
Did you guys read the part where he said he is just getting into reloading for rifles, and someone told him he needed a chronograph?

For those of you that advocate using a chronograph to work up to book velocities in the belief that you are staying within safe pressures you are incorrect. If the chronograph was the correct tool for that then they would not have pressure test equipment.

Here Karl W. Kleimenhagen is quoting Ken Oehler talking about the practice:
Loading to get the book velocities is no guarantee regarding pressures.
Click to expand...

Chronographs numbers like standard deviation are not directly related to precision on target (groups). Low SD ≠ Good groups.

I've tried matching velocity with different powders in hopes of duplicating good groups. It does not work that way in my experience. Certain powders produce better groups on target than other powders. Velocity seems to not be a factor.

At one point in the late 80s early 90s 7.62mm M118 Special Ball ammunition was switched from being loaded with extruded powder to a ball powder. The velocities had to be duplicated because of the mil.spec but the performance on target was much poorer.

Chronographs are excellent for measuring velocity. If the velocity is critically important for what you are doing, say for precision unknown distance shooting or maybe you are going to a long range match and you want to be certain that you have the correct elevation for 1000 yards, they are great tools.

B
 
I hope no one is using a chrony to work up to book velocities and also hppe that my previous post wasn't being interpreted to say that.

I was trying to say that the chrony for me helps to validate that my powder drops are right because I'm seeing about the expected velocity (plus or minus variations due to different barrels, etc).
 
I'm with Brian. A chrono is not needed for a beginner reloader. I've never owned one. All it does is tell you speed. You work up a safe load by reading the manuals. You work up an accurate load be reading your target.
If you have to know your velocity, or are just curious, then yes, you need a chrono. I've never encountered a time when I have to know my velocity, and if the load will shoot tiny groups, I don't care how fast it's going.
 
Last edited:
I reload for IDPA, which has a minimum power factor. So I need to know the speed of my reloads. But that's the only reason I've been using my chronograph.
 
It Is true that a test barrel is the best way to determine the pressures generated by a particular load. Unfortunately test barrels aren't available to the amateur reloader. Chronos are and they can provide a wealth of information. Blindly following the manuals will not necessarily get you the performance you seek. I have had widely varying results from using published data.
 
http://www.chuckhawks.com/pressure_measurement.htm

http://www.ktgunsmith.com/straingauge.htm

You can make your own version of what the big boys use (they don't do copper crush any more) for cheap.

They can apply the strain gauge to ANY barrel, and so can you.

Just saying.....

Gammon said:
It Is true that a test barrel is the best way to determine the pressures generated by a particular load. Unfortunately test barrels aren't available to the amateur reloader. Chronos are and they can provide a wealth of information. Blindly following the manuals will not necessarily get you the performance you seek. I have had widely varying results from using published data.
Click to expand...
 

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