Reasonable 9mm pistol accuracy

[Varmint]

Hell, I'd be happy with a six inch group at 10 yards. I suck and thats all there is to it. (but I still have fun)

That’s good enough to stop the bad guy.

 

[fencer]

I was taught an average self defense situation happens between 3-5 feet. If you are shooting at someone that is more tha. 25 feet away, you may be committing murder

Not if he is running at you full tilt with a knife in his hand. Even if you hit him, you would be hard pressed to drop a determined attacker before he closed the distance. Unless you hit him with a .40, Then that sumbitch is going DOWN.

 

[DW357]

I'm seeing a colossal difference in this thread between fudds and competition-type shooters, it's quite amusing.

This. Big difference in bullseye shooters who are stationary and shooting stationary targets at a slow rate vs action shooters running around, drawing from a holster, shooting fast etc.

 

[Darkslide]

General question as I'm trying to improve accuracy: I have the goal/expectation of consistently shooting 4" groups at 25 yards, with a stock Glock 19 Gen 5 or Sig P226 (no trigger mods, etc) and a Trijicon 3.25 MOA red dot. Shooting offhand, standing.

I've read different things about expectations, one being that a "good" shooter should be able to get 6" groups at 50 yards.

So is 16 MOA a reasonable goal, or unrealistic?

I can consistently hit 4” steel plates at 25 yards with a g19.5 if I take my time to aim, so it’s definitely doable. I can also hit 8” plates at 50 and 75 yards with a cajunized P-01 maybe 75% of the time, but can’t hit shit with my Glock at those distances. It’s the trigger.

I’m also a fairly new shooter (started this June). But I cheat… I use optics.

 

[fencer]

I have the goal/expectation of consistently shooting 4" groups at 25 yards, with a stock Glock 19 Gen 5 or Sig P226 (no trigger mods, etc) and a Trijicon 3.25 MOA red dot. Shooting offhand, standing.

I've read different things about expectations, one being that a "good" shooter should be able to get 6" groups at 50 yards.

Yeah sure, it is doable. But is bullseye shooting what you really want to get into?
If so, those are not the guns you want to be using, and you really need good ammo.

I used to chase the tight groups and wanted to be able to shoot clover leaves. But then I gave some serious thought to it, and realized a couple of things. The first is that bullseye shooting is boring AF. The second is that it has very little real world application.
Most of us carry because, god forbid, we want to be able to defend ourselves or loved ones, should the need arise. Defensive pistol shooting. In a defensive situation, standing still and shooting slowly, is the best way to get dead.
And you are never going to be shooting at anything 150' away with a hand gun. Unless maybe you get into handgun hunting, and again, those are not the guns for it.
Bullseye shooters are like accountants that wear pocket protectors, that only f*** in the missionary position, with the lights off, every third Saturday night.

Don't worry about groups. Practice drawing and presenting and getting rounds on target. Accuracy will come. Acceptable accuracy will come quickly.
Can I shoot tight groups? I guess so? I honestly have NEVER pulled out a tape measure. The below target was at 50' - not 50 yards. I don't know how wide the spread is. but I know that being 45acp, whatever it is is dead. Never shot at a paper target while moving, but the groups open up I am sure.

 

[Supermoto]

There is alway time to work on accuracy even if your main goal is defensive shooting or action shooting. Great shooters are good at both

 

[42!]

Yeah sure, it is doable. But is bullseye shooting what you really want to get into?
If so, those are not the guns you want to be using, and you really need good ammo.

I used to chase the tight groups and wanted to be able to shoot clover leaves. But then I gave some serious thought to it, and realized a couple of things. The first is that bullseye shooting is boring AF. The second is that it has very little real world application.
Most of us carry because, god forbid, we want to be able to defend ourselves or loved ones, should the need arise. Defensive pistol shooting. In a defensive situation, standing still and shooting slowly, is the best way to get dead.
And you are never going to be shooting at anything 150' away with a hand gun. Unless maybe you get into handgun hunting, and again, those are not the guns for it.
Bullseye shooters are like accountants that wear pocket protectors, that only f*** in the missionary position, with the lights off, every third Saturday night.

Don't worry about groups. Practice drawing and presenting and getting rounds on target. Accuracy will come. Acceptable accuracy will come quickly.
Can I shoot tight groups? I guess so? I honestly have NEVER pulled out a tape measure. The below target was at 50' - not 50 yards. I don't know how wide the spread is. but I know that being 45acp, whatever it is is dead. Never shot at a paper target while moving, but the groups open up I am sure.
View attachment 689550

When the zombie apocalypse comes you won't be doing mag dumps at close range, you'll be singing the old AT&T jingle and picking up your Match M1A1, and that's target shooting.

 

[fencer]

When the zombie apocalypse comes you won't be doing mag dumps at close range, you'll be singing the old AT&T jingle and picking up your Match M1A1, and that's target shooting.

Let's hope we are lucky enough to have that much distance!
I always say....
Scoped rifle in 30 cal + when the zombies are on the horizon.
Magazine fed battle rifle when zombies are at the end of the street
Shot gun when they make it to the driveway
Duty pistol when they get thru the door
Once you have added these to your collection, repeat!

 

[mac1911]

Yeah sure, it is doable. But is bullseye shooting what you really want to get into?
If so, those are not the guns you want to be using, and you really need good ammo.

I used to chase the tight groups and wanted to be able to shoot clover leaves. But then I gave some serious thought to it, and realized a couple of things. The first is that bullseye shooting is boring AF. The second is that it has very little real world application.
Most of us carry because, god forbid, we want to be able to defend ourselves or loved ones, should the need arise. Defensive pistol shooting. In a defensive situation, standing still and shooting slowly, is the best way to get dead.
And you are never going to be shooting at anything 150' away with a hand gun. Unless maybe you get into handgun hunting, and again, those are not the guns for it.
Bullseye shooters are like accountants that wear pocket protectors, that only f*** in the missionary position, with the lights off, every third Saturday night.

Don't worry about groups. Practice drawing and presenting and getting rounds on target. Accuracy will come. Acceptable accuracy will come quickly.
Can I shoot tight groups? I guess so? I honestly have NEVER pulled out a tape measure. The below target was at 50' - not 50 yards. I don't know how wide the spread is. but I know that being 45acp, whatever it is is dead. Never shot at a paper target while moving, but the groups open up I am sure.
View attachment 689550

I’m going to assume that · is about 2 inches to inches at 50 feet is approximately 14 minute of angle that’s not too shabby

 

[fencer]

I’m going to assume that · is about 2 inches to inches at 50 feet is approximately 14 minute of angle that’s not too shabby

Hmmm. Who woulda thunk? I was just trying to hit that little red dot in the middle.

 

[Mesatchornug]

Hmmm. Who woulda thunk? I was just trying to hit that little red dot in the middle.

and here I was just going to say it looks like about 2" x3 for feet to yards, and I think you just got your 6" @50 yds...

 

[mac1911]

Hmmm. Who woulda thunk? I was just trying to hit that little red dot in the middle.

The big take away
You got the group where it needs to be. What was your hold?

 

[fencer]

The big take away
You got the group where it needs to be. What was your hold?

Standard hold with that gun at that distance.

 

[eddy1953]

General question as I'm trying to improve accuracy: I have the goal/expectation of consistently shooting 4" groups at 25 yards, with a stock Glock 19 Gen 5 or Sig P226 (no trigger mods, etc) and a Trijicon 3.25 MOA red dot. Shooting offhand, standing.

I've read different things about expectations, one being that a "good" shooter should be able to get 6" groups at 50 yards.

So is 16 MOA a reasonable goal, or unrealistic?

If you are using the gun strictly for self-defense, don't get too fussy. Start 3 yards; draw and fire 3 rounds on a humanoid silhouette (assuming your club allows it) center mass, using your normal concealed carry holster and ammo.
Back up to 7 yards and do the same. Then try 15 yards, aimed fire, again center mass. If all 9 rounds connect solidly with center mass, call it good. 9mm pistol is a self-defense tool, not a precision target gun.

 

[PappyM3]

…9mm pistol is a self-defense tool, not a precision target gun.

 

[Varmint]

I shoot the 226 really well. I like to be able to make golf ball sized groups at 11 yards for any pistol I carry. The 226 or my Derr 1911 will do that at 25 yards freehand or 50 yards from a bag all day. really what matters is good practice. you dont want to practice bad habits, so one of the best things you can do is take some pistol classes with someone who knows what they're doing.

I think the factory group that came with my P226 was bigger than that.

 

[fencer]

9mm pistol is a self-defense tool, not a precision target gun.

It really depends on the 9mm. The two the OP mentions are really duty guns.
But a Sig 210, and X5 or X6 and arguably the CZ Shadow's are really more geared for accuracy. Not to mention all of the 1911 and 2011 variants.

 

[Varmint]

I was taught an average self defense situation happens between 3-5 feet. If you are shooting at someone that is more tha. 25 feet away, you may be committing murder

Just walk closer before taking the Selfie with the body.

 

[fencer]

I shoot the 226 really well. I like to be able to make golf ball sized groups at 11 yards for any pistol I carry. The 226 or my Derr 1911 will do that at 25 yards freehand or 50 yards from a bag all day.

You are a better shooter than I am, even with my 226 or WC 1911.
Golf ball sized groups at 75' is pretty impressive. I'd be thrilled with groups the size of a baseball.

 

[whatluck]

You are a better shooter than I am, even with my 226 or WC 1911.
Golf ball sized groups at 75' is pretty impressive. I'd be thrilled with groups the size of a baseball.

when I started I was really bad, going to BRP early AM because I was embarrased to let anyone see me shoot. i met and worked with a teacher who was incredible, and obsessed over my pistol skills for a long time. now ofc i can shoot every day because i can shoot in my yard.

i have a redneck neighbor with a 500 yard rifle range who invited me over last week, and that guy is fkin incredible with this built benchrest tika rifle he has so im back to feeling useless. i guess the pistol was an urban thing for me, and now that i live in the country i want to be able to get reliable center mass shots from my porch to the end of my property.

 

[eddy1953]

Same with revolvers. There are some nice long heavy barrel .38 and .357 PPC competition revolvers that could probably split a playing card edgewise from a bench rest at 25 yards. Me? I carry a stainless Chief 60 .38 with 2" barrel. No way in the world is it capable of that; not even close. It can, however, reliably double tap an assailant center mass at 3 yards, 7 yards and 15 yards. Good enough for my needs.

It really depends on the 9mm. The two the OP mentions are really duty guns.
But a Sig 210, and X5 or X6 and arguably the CZ Shadow's are really more geared for accuracy. Not to mention all of the 1911 and 2011 variants.

 

[DW357]

Same with revolvers. There are some nice long heavy barrel .38 and .357 PPC competition revolvers that could probably split a playing card edgewise from a bench rest at 25 yards.

Yep. My scoped Dan Wesson 357 mag will shoot 1.5" groups at 100 yards from a rest, with the 8 inch barrel.

 

[Varmint]

Yep. My scoped Dan Wesson 357 mag will shoot 1.5" groups at 100 yards from a rest, with the 8 inch barrel. View attachment 690428View attachment 690429

Snake Plisskin approves.

 

[DW357]

Snake Plisskin approves.

I hate to admit I had to Google that. Haven’t seen those movies…yet!

 

[Varmint]

I hate to admit I had to Google that. Haven’t seen those movies…yet!

Probably hasn’t aged that well and it’s one of those movies where he has cool guns and doesn’t really get to use them.

 

[42!]

I hate to admit I had to Google that. Haven’t seen those movies…yet!

next thing you'll tell us is you've never seen Caddy Shack

 

[DW357]

next thing you'll tell us is you've never seen Caddy Shack

I’ve seen caddy shack once or twice.

 

[42!]

I’ve seen caddy shack once or twice.

ok we'll let the Snake thing pass

 

[Supermoto]

Sighting in a Holosun 407K at 50y offhand Hellcat Pro

 

[heck ya beaches]

You only get to aim at center of AVAILABLE mass. So good luck with that theory

pistols:
[x] require aiming
[x] demand direct fire
[x] present a challenge hitting a moving target
[x] result in a conversation with police when you use them to clear snow

flamethrowers have none of these ridiculous shortcomings.