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RANT!! NRA Online Training (not a good idea)

Well, good for the NRA. They will now make big $$$ with their on-line course. Congrats to them. I and a lot of other trainers will be dropping out. I think the online idea is a big ball of $hit. Wonder how many instructors will be left to finish the "live" portion of this charade, making it difficult for the students.
 
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if you haven't seen the email, here's the info. No mention of what the NRA will charge for the online part:

Blended Learning

We plan to roll out the new blended pistol course before the end of the year, and completely replace the pistol course as it is now conducted by the end of the first quarter of 2016. This means that the current packets and certificates will become obsolete, so we want to make sure you consider that when placing your orders.

NRA Pistol Instructors will be provided with a new Instructor Led Training (ILT) lesson plan, which will be downloadable right on your NRAInstructors.org account page. Basic pistol students will come to your course with a solid foundation, which they learned in the e-learning module. The ILT portion of the course will consist of a firearm and range safety review, fundamentals, practical handling exercises using each action type with dummy ammunition, shooting positions, and shooting to a standard with a qualification shoot requirement. Once you are satisfied that the students have fulfilled each learning objective, you can check them as passed and print their certificates through NRAInstructors.org.

We anticipate reaching more people than ever before. There will be two ways for students to find your course – the way they currently do, where you advertise on nrainstructors.org, or they will be directed to your courses if they found out about the NRA Basic Pistol Course from another source. We will provide more information as it develops.
 
I wouldn't do the "IRL" part without going through a ton of the classroom stuff in person also. Which is to say, my rates wouldn't go down, which means students' rates would go up by $50.

What a dumb-ass idea.
 
There are currently 26 MA-approved LTC classes. Anyone know which one(s) are available to instructors looking to switch over from the NRA courses?

http://www.mass.gov/eopss/agencies/...asic-firearms-safety-course-list-updated.html

Some are obviously proprietary (Sig, S&W, etc.,) but others sound pretty generic: "Massachusetts Certified Basic Pistol Course - LTC-017," "Massachusetts Pistol License Course - LTC-020," or "Basic Firearm Protection Course - LTC-025" for example.

Anyone know how to get more info on becoming certified to teach one of the non-NRA MA approved classes?
 
jasons said:
There are currently 26 MA-approved LTC classes. Anyone know which one(s) are available to instructors looking to switch over from the NRA courses?

http://www.mass.gov/eopss/agencies/...asic-firearms-safety-course-list-updated.html

Some are obviously proprietary (Sig, S&W, etc.,) but others sound pretty generic: "Massachusetts Certified Basic Pistol Course - LTC-017," "Massachusetts Pistol License Course - LTC-020," or "Basic Firearm Protection Course - LTC-025" for example.

Anyone know how to get more info on becoming certified to teach one of the non-NRA MA approved classes?
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That is a great question and well worth pursuing. I'd love to switch over.
 
To maintain your NRA credentials you will need to teach at least one NRA course per 2-year credential period. To renew your MA instructor credentials you must be certified by the NRA or other acceptable organization. If you don't currently have the Home Firearm Safety credential, it may be worth getting it.
 
jasons said:
There are currently 26 MA-approved LTC classes. Anyone know which one(s) are available to instructors looking to switch over from the NRA courses?

http://www.mass.gov/eopss/agencies/...asic-firearms-safety-course-list-updated.html

Some are obviously proprietary (Sig, S&W, etc.,) but others sound pretty generic: "Massachusetts Certified Basic Pistol Course - LTC-017," "Massachusetts Pistol License Course - LTC-020," or "Basic Firearm Protection Course - LTC-025" for example.

Anyone know how to get more info on becoming certified to teach one of the non-NRA MA approved classes?
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Contact the person or agency that wrote the approved course and ask. Some may let you teach their course some may let you for a fee.
 
07Mustang said:
Contact the person or agency that wrote the approved course and ask. Some may let you teach their course some may let you for a fee.
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Thanks....

Any idea who wrote "Massachusetts Certified Basic Pistol Course - LTC-017," "Massachusetts Pistol License Course - LTC-020," or "Basic Firearm Protection Course - LTC-025?"

Me either.
 
LTC-025 is owned by Dynamic Incident Response for use at their own facility.

I own the Massachusetts Pistol License Course (LTC-020) and already have licensing agreements in place with an exclusive group of Instructors and firearm schools in Massachusetts who pay a fairly substantial annual fee for using the course. At this point I do not anticipate granting more licensing agreements. FYI the process of writing the curriculum, preparing a detailed PowerPoint presentation and other related documents, and securing approval from the MSP (Firearms Unit, Lt. Nugent, Armorer, Superintendent, etc.) and filing/receiving the Copyright took over a year. My purpose in writing the course originally was to make it a component of my Multi-License Firearm Course. The amended version that I submitted to Connecticut took nearly two years to be approved. By the way, the course includes live fire.

My advice is to stick with NRA Basic Pistol (which I also teach) and wait for further details from NRA Training (i.e. online fee, etc.). When I hear more details I will post them. Of course an alternative is still to use NRA Home Firearm Safety.
 
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The course LTC-025 was created by me and I have no plans in letting anyone use it. It is a live fire course including rifle, pistol, shotgun and in the process of getting Florida to approve it.

Mike Martin

Dynamic Incident Response
 
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I propose that NES instructors come together to create a course, based off our varying degrees of expertise and training, to submit. Using the Basic Pistol and Home Safety courses as a guide for the first 3 hours, and including an hour of MA Firearms law, we would have a comprehensive course to teach new students and enhance how we train our friends and family. Some of you may be quick to poo poo this idea, and that is fine, but I think it's worth coming together and brainstorming.
 
I know a lot of PDs love NRA Basic Pistol for their applicants, but as an NRA Instructor, I personally do not like this class for the purpose alluded to in MGL, supposedly making gun owners "safe" to own guns. [Mind you, I do not believe that we should be required to take any course to practice a "right" but since MA recognizes NO RIGHTS to its subjects . . . ]

NRA BP (and many of the other self-developed courses) only teach handling handguns. Yet the new LTC possessor is very likely to go out and buy a shotgun and/or rifle, with AR15s being one of the most popular. But the course they took is of no help in learning how to safely handle and use a long gun, especially one like the AR15 which has a totally different manual of arms from every other long gun out there.

For that reason, I prefer to teach NRA Home Firearm Safety but WITH live fire, this gives the students a well-rounded experience of handling all sorts of guns along with their certificates.

As of now, NRA has not put NRA HFS on their schedule for conversion to online training, so it is still a viable option for instructors who wish to really instruct their students (as opposed to merely handing out paper).

------------------

And for the record . . . all or almost all the courses approved other than that NRA courses were done by private companies (S&W, Sig Arms, etc.) or individuals at considerable time and expense to get them approved. The likelihood of getting the "OK" to use one of those courses for your own personal gain is somewhere between slim and none and I think Slim just left town.
 
Len-2A Training said:
I know a lot of PDs love NRA Basic Pistol for their applicants, but as an NRA Instructor, I personally do not like this class for the purpose alluded to in MGL, supposedly making gun owners "safe" to own guns. [Mind you, I do not believe that we should be required to take any course to practice a "right" but since MA recognizes NO RIGHTS to its subjects . . . ]

NRA BP (and many of the other self-developed courses) only teach handling handguns. Yet the new LTC possessor is very likely to go out and buy a shotgun and/or rifle, with AR15s being one of the most popular. But the course they took is of no help in learning how to safely handle and use a long gun, especially one like the AR15 which has a totally different manual of arms from every other long gun out there.

For that reason, I prefer to teach NRA Home Firearm Safety but WITH live fire, this gives the students a well-rounded experience of handling all sorts of guns along with their certificates.

As of now, NRA has not put NRA HFS on their schedule for conversion to online training, so it is still a viable option for instructors who wish to really instruct their students (as opposed to merely handing out paper).

------------------

And for the record . . . all or almost all the courses approved other than that NRA courses were done by private companies (S&W, Sig Arms, etc.) or individuals at considerable time and expense to get them approved. The likelihood of getting the "OK" to use one of those courses for your own personal gain is somewhere between slim and none and I think Slim just left town.
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If this is the case then I think you made some solid points for me to go get the Home Safety Course instructor certification. I agree- the focus should be on the 3 major firearm types and not just pistol.
 
Len-2A Training said:
I don't like the idea and have had numerous lengthy discussions with my TC, however nobody at NRA ever asked my opinion. Initially if the course name doesn't change, it is still MSP certified. As soon as the *******s at MSP figure out what's happening, I expect them to pull the course from the approved list of courses.

Personally this "might" make my life easier as for the NRA part I don't have to rent a classroom for a full day and can do all of my part at the range.
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I don't see it being an issue as the MA instructor will still have to deliver the required state police BFS section. Not sure why they would care.
 
Len-2A Training said:
I know a lot of PDs love NRA Basic Pistol for their applicants, but as an NRA Instructor, I personally do not like this class for the purpose alluded to in MGL, supposedly making gun owners "safe" to own guns. [Mind you, I do not believe that we should be required to take any course to practice a "right" but since MA recognizes NO RIGHTS to its subjects . . . ]

NRA BP (and many of the other self-developed courses) only teach handling handguns. Yet the new LTC possessor is very likely to go out and buy a shotgun and/or rifle, with AR15s being one of the most popular. But the course they took is of no help in learning how to safely handle and use a long gun, especially one like the AR15 which has a totally different manual of arms from every other long gun out there.

For that reason, I prefer to teach NRA Home Firearm Safety but WITH live fire, this gives the students a well-rounded experience of handling all sorts of guns along with their certificates.

As of now, NRA has not put NRA HFS on their schedule for conversion to online training, so it is still a viable option for instructors who wish to really instruct their students (as opposed to merely handing out paper).

------------------

And for the record . . . all or almost all the courses approved other than that NRA courses were done by private companies (S&W, Sig Arms, etc.) or individuals at considerable time and expense to get them approved. The likelihood of getting the "OK" to use one of those courses for your own personal gain is somewhere between slim and none and I think Slim just left town.
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I also dislike teaching BP and prefer HFS with live fire. The #1 reason is that I think the BP curriculum is outdated. Most people taking our classes are not interested in bulls-eye pistol shooting and learning a 6:00 hold. BFS with live fire allows us to work on whatever the student is interested in, rather than what the curriculum dictates.
 
I personally don't care if they do online training or not. If it gets more people licensed across the country, good. If it costs me a few students along the way then so be it. I would be happy with MA dropping the requirement. Hell, I can find something else to do in my 20 person classroom.
 
What is the process for getting a course certified by the state police? Approximately how much does it cost to do so? Sounds like there are a few people on here who have jumped through the necessary hoops, care to share some experience?

Mike-Mike said:
I personally don't care if they do online training or not. If it gets more people licensed across the country, good. If it costs me a few students along the way then so be it. I would be happy with MA dropping the requirement. Hell, I can find something else to do in my 20 person classroom.
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I don't either except for the fact that my club currently uses NRA basic pistol for our classes and I don't think this new "hybrid" mode is going to work for us. We don't run them to make money but rather as a public service. All of our instructors are unpaid volunteers and the pittance that we charge just covers the ammo, firearms, maintenance on the firearms, targets, student materials, etc. At the end of the day it's a break even proposition.

If we need to switch to a different curriculum that's fine, I'm just trying to figure out what the best option is. HFS with live fire sounds like it may be the way to go, but if we have to switch anyway it's worth looking at the options.
 
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Not to be negative, but I guess I am being so. What's to stop the NRA from offering the HFS online at a future date after all the BP guys paid up to update and take the HFS Instructor Class. I think I paid $250 to get BP certified. I'm not about to invest in the HFS to see it go online next year.
 
yanici said:
Not to be negative, but I guess I am being so. What's to stop the NRA from offering the HFS online at a future date after all the BP guys paid up to update and take the HFS Instructor Class. I think I paid $250 to get BP certified. I'm not about to invest in the HFS to see it go online next year.
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If you're BP certified you may already be HFS certified. At least when I took my class it included both.
 
jasons said:
Log onto the instructor portal and see if it's listed. https://www.nrainstructors.org
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It'll also be on your certificate and card from NRA.

Not every TC teaches both in one sitting. When I became certified thru Jon Green & the late Darius Arbabi, they certified us in both BP and HFS.
 
Len-2A Training said:
It'll also be on your certificate and card from NRA.

Not every TC teaches both in one sitting. When I became certified thru Jon Green & the late Darius Arbabi, they certified us in both BP and HFS.
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Jon Green and Rick Sitte offer a combination Basic Pistol and Home Firearm Safety Instructor course. When the Home Firearm Safety course is added after Basic Pistol, material that would be a duplicate does not need to be included, so it takes less than the normal 5 hours to add it.

If anyone from the western half of MA is interested, I would be willing to schedule a Home Firearm Safety Instructor course. Anyone who hasn't taken Basic Instructor Training (BIT) in the last 24 months would need to retake it. By the way, BIT will be an online course sometime in 2016.

PS: Home Firearm Safety is not likely to evolve into blended learning. It's a very underutilized course compared with Basic Pistol.

The only disadvantage to Home Firearm Safety, even if it includes live fire, is that CT won't accept it. Otherwise I agree with Len that it's a great all-around course.
 
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yanici said:
Not to be negative, but I guess I am being so. What's to stop the NRA from offering the HFS online at a future date after all the BP guys paid up to update and take the HFS Instructor Class. I think I paid $250 to get BP certified. I'm not about to invest in the HFS to see it go online next year.
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What he said.
 
robmcd said:
Jon Green and Rick Sitte offer a combination Basic Pistol and Home Firearm Safety Instructor course. When the Home Firearm Safety course is added after Basic Pistol, material that would be a duplicate does not need to be included, so it takes less than the normal 5 hours to add it.

PS: Home Firearm Safety is not likely to evolve into blended learning. It's a very underutilized course compared with Basic Pistol.

The only disadvantage to Home Firearm Safety, even if it includes live fire, is that CT won't accept it. Otherwise I agree with Len that it's a great all-around course.
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When I decided to become an Instructor, I hadn't heard of Rick yet and know Jon Green ever since the day they hired him, so I only wanted to take the course he taught. I thought BP & HFS Instructor was always taught together. [wink]

Glad to hear that NRA won't mess with HFS!

Sad that CT has no clue that PPIH is easily equivalent (plus a lot more) to BP (see the CT thread I just posted in).
 

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