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RANT: Let me shoot your gun.

ZX14 said:
I can understand wanting to discourage 'tire kickers' but why would you expect a relative stranger to hand over $ without the opportunity to verify that the gun works?

Would you buy a used car in a private sale without taking it out for a test drive? If the answer is no I've got a few cars I'd like to sell 'as-is'.

In Regards to 'handing a stranger a loaded gun': How long do you think it would take him to load it after you sold it to him? What are you going to do? Take his money and then throw the gun into the bushes while you make a dash for your car? What makes you think he isn't carrying another gun?

All terms should be discussed prior to the exchange. Proving that the gun works is something that should be discussed along with Time, place, attendees, who supplies the test ammo, etc.
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The biggest fear in handing the loaded gun to a 0 post new member would be him using the opportunity to stick it under his chin and making a messy exit. Poor bastard could be just looking for a quick way out of a miserable life.
 
I would probably not buy a gun from a random person (an ad), without test firing it. If you didn't want me to fire it I'd have to wonder why?! Something wrong with the gun?

You're buying more than a gun when you pay a gun shop a bit more for the same gun. You are buying their expertise and their word the gun is as represented.

On the other hand, your gun, your rules.

Great guns, Batman! How many times did I just type gun?
 
It would depend on how I was introduced to the buyer. If the person comes well recommended, or is someone I've seen at a few matches, no problem. If it's a total stranger, I'm not interested for both tactical/legal reasons (sure, I could have my own tac team in the woods behind the firing line, but that's a setup for a situation where we would lose even if we won), but a much greater risk is time wasting. If someone wants to make sure a gun fires reliably, that's one thing (and a good idea if you're paying $2K+ for a used compensated race gun), but in more typical cases it's likely to be someone who is not sure that is the gun they want, and the likely outcome is "thanks, I'll think about it" - leaving me to go home and clean the gun so it's nice and pretty for the next buyer.

But, in reality, I rarely sell a used gun and when I do, it's never to a stranger. It's not worth the hassle or risk to me. The last time I had a gun I wanted to get rid of, I karmaed it to a junior shooter (on an FA10, held by his father until he turns 21, at which point I remind him he has a transfer to do).
 
swampy said:
The biggest fear in handing the loaded gun to a 0 post new member would be him using the opportunity to stick it under his chin and making a messy exit. Poor bastard could be just looking for a quick way out of a miserable life.
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Or sticking it in your chin.
 
A snarky reply on the internet??? There's something new [smile]

When I sell something I like to accommodate the buyer the best I can but I wouldn't want to meet the buyer for a pre-purchase test either. It's just too much time to waste on someone that might get cold feet or try and talk you down on the spot. I've met some really nice people on NES but mixing sales and a complimentary try out is setting yourself up for disappointment.
 
swampy said:
The biggest fear in handing the loaded gun to a 0 post new member would be him using the opportunity to stick it under his chin and making a messy exit. Poor bastard could be just looking for a quick way out of a miserable life.
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That'd be my concern.
 
never really thought about a "potential buyer" using your item for sale as a means to their end. Glad I read that...

If I were to sell any of my home built rifles, there'd be an almost mandatory range trip involved with the transaction so that the buyer would know what he/she is getting.
 
swampy said:
The biggest fear in handing the loaded gun to a 0 post new member would be him using the opportunity to stick it under his chin and making a messy exit. Poor bastard could be just looking for a quick way out of a miserable life.
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I really hope this is a joke, or poor sarcasm at best, because if not, it has to be the most paranoid ridiculous thing I have ever read.
 
jenlynn724 said:
I really hope this is a joke, or poor sarcasm at best, because if not, it has to be the most paranoid ridiculous thing I have ever read.
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Considering that people commonly use rented range guns for just such a thing, is it realy that paranoid? (On the other hand, you wouldn't hand them the firearm without checking that they have an LTC, and if they have an LTC, why not use there own gun... so I see both sides I guess).
 
Plain and simple "your gun your rules". I have done this but have them give me the cash in my hand fill out paper work. No jams or failures deal. Failure, tear up paper work and return cash. I am clear I will not give the cash back becaue "I did not like it".
I have a similar approach with selling motorcycles.
 
Agree your gun your rules.

As a buyer I always wonder why a person is selling? I don't worry that the gun won't work but is it not accurate or is something not right with it. Many people sell rifles that are not as accurate as they would like. If I were buying a rifle I would want to test accuracy or at least see some targets.

As a seller I would never allow for a test fire. My time is to limited to set up a range session then have a buyer back out. I always try to deal with a green member but what does that really mean....you don't really know the person. Twice I sold pistols to Green Members and they showed up with two people which made me a little nervous since both times we made the transaction in my car and one guy was sitting in the back. Both times it was no problem but two on one made me wary.
 
I'm fairly new to this and have never bought or sold a gun FTF, But I have sold a few motorcycles and my rule is cash in hand before the bike goes out the driveway. I would expect something similar when buying a gun.
 
Also, even if I know the person, it depends on where I think they are coming from. If it's a credible, known person, who says "I need to know it's reliable. I'll take it if I see it fire two mags without a problem", it may be worth making arrangements. If it's someone whose not sure they want that model gun, I'd only do it if I would also take that person out for a shooting session with no possible purchase on the agenda.
 
I don't test fire a gun before I buy it a shop (used or new) so I would not bust someone's chops on NES either.

Putting a mag or two through a guns tells me very little about whether it's going to be reliable. I guess it could put a 300 or 400rounds through it will all sorts of ammo and 5 different mags - that might be helpful..... Same thing with accuracy testing, would you ask a gunshop to the same for you?
 
Putting a mag or two through a guns tells me very little about whether it's going to be reliable.
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Well, if it won't run two mags without a jam that's called a clue. And yes, I have seen some "custom guns" that suffer from this problem. It's much easier to prove "bad" rather than "good".

As to accuracy testing - if the seller can demonstrate a 5 shot, sub-MOA group on demand, first tiry, that's also called a clue. Failure does not mean the gun is inaccurate, but the chances of pulling this off with an inaccurate weapon are slim.
 
Rob Boudrie said:
Well, if it won't run two mags without a jam that's called a clue. And yes, I have seen some "custom guns" that suffer from this problem. It's much easier to prove "bad" rather than "good".

As to accuracy testing - if the seller can demonstrate a 5 shot, sub-MOA group on demand, first tiry, that's also called a clue. Failure does not mean the gun is inaccurate, but the chances of pulling this off with an inaccurate weapon are slim.
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Custom fraken-guns are one things, but again, if you buy a new or used gun from a shop are you asking for a test fire?

2 mags of the ammo a gun likes really doesn't matter to me, as I mostly own carry pieces. Ya, a pistol that won't run a mag is a POS and the person selling it was trying to rip you off - but a gun that won't feed hps or jams once every 100 rounds is just as bad for me.
 
Old Glory said:
If I were buying a rifle I would want to test accuracy or at least see some targets.

As a seller I would never allow for a test fire.
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Little hypocritical, don't you think?

I agree with all other posters - your gun, your rules. But here's my rules: If you want to buy my gun (I've sold a few through NES), meet me at my club, and we'll send a few rounds downrange. I can go over the operation, take it down if you wish, and answer any questions. If you are happy with the gun and the way it functions, we do the transaction (including the paperwork) right there, and everyone is happy. If you change your mind - no problem. At least we had a nice day on the range - still happy.

I would rather have someone completely comfortable with the purchase, rather than find out later through nagging calls, emails and negative rep points that something was wrong. That being said, I always try to make the transaction at my club, where I know there will be a few folks around. Either way, I make a new friend, and maybe give a newbie a positive experience that will reinforce a lifelong passion for the shooting sports. Not a bad thing.

Do what is comfortable for you.

*
 
edin508 said:
It happens! Did you read my post?
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I read your original post. Terrible tragedy.

But the other post by Swampy is kind of paranoid.

I'm not concerned that someone will commit suicide at a FTF sale (at least in MA).
For this to happen they would have to have the appropriate documentation (FTF, LTC, etc.), contact me, negotiate an appropriate price (or price range), meet me at the my range, etc.
That's too much effort for a quick, sudden suicide. They could cut down half the steps by just going to a gun shop and buying a gun legally.

It's paranoid not because it can't happen but that it is extremely unlikely.
 
The difference between purchasing a gun at a gun shop and FTF from John Shooter, is that if there is a "hidden" problem, you can return it. FTF it's more of a line-of-sight warranty (it's out of sight, it's out of warranty!). If a shop sells junk and won't make it right, then they'll have a short run in business.
 
Although I posted earlier a quick "your gun your rules" from my iPhone, I agree with USMA. One FTF with a NESer was at my club, I wanted him to put a few rounds down range to make sure he liked what he was buying, we had a good 30 minute quick shoot and went on our way, very nice guy.

I don't mind letting people test fire a gun if I think they're serious, if they tell me they're straight up window shopping I still may let them fire it but I won't go out of my way to accommodate them (meet me at the range when I'm already going or something).

Ultimately, do what feels right to you.
 
Most of us who know a thing or two (or three) about guns know that you can USUALLY tell a bit about the ability of a gun to shoot by the apparent condition of the gun. Wear marks, gouges, scratches, dings, dents, etc. And, most of us know that some of that has to do with the age of the gun. That is, the older the gun, and more used it is, the more likely it is to have the aforementioned details. And, most of us know to ask about how many rounds down the barrel.

When I meet FTF, I always ASK if it's OK to dismantle the gun, and usually ask the person I'm buying it from to do that for me. Instantly defuses any tension. If they say, NO, it's not OK to take the gun apart, I walk. There should be no reason for refusing to show the wear condition of the insides. So, I can glean volumes of the nature of a gun from inspecting it carefully.

Now, mind you, it's not something that you are usually comfy doing in a Walmart parking lot. Too many nosey people.

"Sure, meet me at the gun shop!" That's the best place to show someone a gun. Most gun shops, especially the ones where you are a regular customer, would be delighted to have you bring in a new prospective customer. And, it's certainly a gun friendly location. And, if you arrange it ahead of time, you can sometimes get the shop owner to make a photo copy of the LTC (which you aren't going to get any place else).

Handgun FTF are the scariest for both parties. Long guns, less so.

Think from the perspective of someone who doesn't know crap about guns. Someone who only thinks in terms of automobile test drives.....

Again, from my perspective, the best way to handle that is to bring them to the gun shop. Maybe even have the gun shop walk the guy through the gun, giving their professional opinion. A fiver or a ten spot to the gun shop would more than cover the time they spent helping you make the sale, and keep the prospective buyer happy.

I like John Ross' phrase, "Member of the Gun Culture".........

Not everyone is.

There's always a way to sell a car, or a gun, even to someone who might have otherwise just gotten their license.
 

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