Range mishap at Southborough Rod and Gun Club

It can't be true

TBP, it is usually a "he said, she said" scenario and thus hard to prove.

I knew and still know a lot of real estate agents. Most will lie thru their teeth to make a sale in the residential market. Going after their licenses for misrepresentation is very unlikely to happen and they know it. In CT I had just cause to do that to the owner of a listing RE agency, instead I deep-sixed the deal, told off the listing broker and just let it go (this was 1972-3).

real estate agents...lie? Say it aini't so[wink]
 
The news story that ran on Ch 7 last night made it sound like the incident just happened, not happened a month ago. They also said the round traveled for a mile before hitting the house. And no, I don't believe anything the media says.

So why is this all of a sudden a major news story a month after it happened?

Man I was just pawing through the Globe in the break-room trying to find this storry. The news wires make it sound like it happened this week. [rolleyes]
 
How about "We request that you advise your prospective buyers that we intend to remain active and, in the event we are shut down, will be pursuing a high density chapter 40B affordable housing development on the land.'
 
Right now nothing is in the works for the farm in question. Real Estate agents can be held liable for any major factors that are not made known to the buyers but that wouldn't help our cause. Fortunatly we have a very good relationship with the Town of Barrington and are looked upon as an asset. We do many public benefits for their charities and hold a very active match and fund raiser for our Annual Christmas fund for the less fortunate of the town.

Years back the club did have a bullet leave the range and land in a home owners property next to the range. He was very good about it and the club made modifications to avoid the problem in the future. We were able to return the favor last year when we closed the club down for half a day when his daughter's wedding cerimony was held at the house and videotaped. Guess gun shots in the background of a wedding video isn't a good thing!!!

Again, years earlier the club was sued by two new homeowners who also happened to be lawyers. The club spent a lot of funds to fight the suit. Eventually the club was forced to make some modifications and was barred from expending into property bought years earlier. It came down to a change in the club's current use.
 
How about "We request that you advise your prospective buyers that we intend to remain active and, in the event we are shut down, will be pursuing a high density chapter 40B affordable housing development on the land.'

Threatening with a 40B development or a Walmart is not really important. The antis will do anything they can to stop the operation of the club (noise pollution, lead pollution, incidents/accidents, etc). This will result in months, if not years of litigation. What happens after is another fight. Remember, in practice it is a lot harder to stop a running business, than it is to prevent a new one from coming.
 
When the developer has open houses, schedule a Machine Gun Shoot at the club. If no one has a machine gun license just shoot alot of really LOUD guns.

If the developer agrees to disclose the clubs location return to normal sound levels.

A low income housing development would be a nice bonus too. WHen they start having meetings about shutting the club down be sure to bring up your plans for the land once the range is closed... Low income housing with "FREE" shuttle service to Roxbury/Dorchester... the mini manchine owners will love that idea.
 
In the town i grew up in, we were really near a local MA army base. A guy three houses down decided to re-roof his house and found at least 20 rounds lodged in the roofing. Theres no way they were ricochets and it was determined that soldiers had been firing into the air at some point, but it was unknown when due to the age of the rounds and roof.

My club in Plaistow has one of the scariest outdoor ranges ive ever seen. Its a 75 yard range with a large dirt pile for a berm. When shooting, you can see houses beyond the berm no more than 500 yards away just to the right of the berm. Luckily, its a smallish club and not many people use the outdoor range because it seems like a disaster waiting to happen.

Dont people buying houses look into the area they are buying? These people built and bought a house with a backyard that has a clear view of the backstop of a rifle range...ive seen kids playing in the back yard.
 
People building the homes are in it just to make money. THEY will never live there!

People selling the homes are in it just to make money. THEY will never live there!

People buying the homes are usually blinded by something they see in the house or the line of BS thrown by the broker. THEY never take their blinders off long enough to look around until after they move in.

I'll admit that I am very close to a gun club, passed by it each time I visited the house prior to moving in and never noticed the sign/club! I wasn't into guns back then and I wasn't concerned about it. There was NO real estate agent involved in our purchase, nobody mentioned the club/noise or anything else about it. It was a non-issue, but later became an advantage.
 
Not possible due to town bylaws.


I don't know which town pdm is in, but this proves my point (if in MA). MGL says that the towns can't impact the operation of a gun club. BUT THEY DO IT ANYWAY! They pass by-laws that stop/impact/restrict clubs all the time. Very costly to fight it and you may not win in the liberal court system we have in MA.
 
Threatening with a 40B development or a Walmart is not really important. The antis will do anything they can to stop the operation of the club (noise pollution, lead pollution, incidents/accidents, etc). This will result in months, if not years of litigation. What happens after is another fight. Remember, in practice it is a lot harder to stop a running business, than it is to prevent a new one from coming.

People seem to think that if they close down a gun club the 200 acres (or whatever) it sits on is just going to sit there undeveloped. In reality, if the land is unusable the club would probably sell and do something else. The desireability of a largely unoccupied gun club vs. a huge single family housing or 40B development is much less of a no brainer once the community is educated that the gun club use is the reason the land remains undeveloped.

The beauty of 40B is that you can bring in a developer such as JPI that specializes in this and they will do all the legal work of telling the town how things are going to be.

I don't believe there is a prohibition against a town "impacting the operation of a gun club", but there is a law which prevents towns from requiring such clubs to obey any noise ordinances enacted since the range was put into operation.
 
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I have been looking at becoming a member of Southboro for a whle and was down there last nite talking to some people. Apparently it's the golf course next door that wants the place shut down (and has for a while). The family involved in the incident just wants to make sure the range is safe and this never happens again.
 
When the developer has open houses, schedule a Machine Gun Shoot at the club. If no one has a machine gun license just shoot a lot of really LOUD guns....

Go to the open house with club info and membership applications and tell them you are a protected neighborhood group.

Oh, and some brownies or rice crispie treats.
 
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I don't know which town pdm is in, but this proves my point (if in MA). MGL says that the towns can't impact the operation of a gun club. BUT THEY DO IT ANYWAY! They pass by-laws that stop/impact/restrict clubs all the time. Very costly to fight it and you may not win in the liberal court system we have in MA.

It doesn't matter what town I reside in, Hopkington has that bylaw. SRGC is located in Hopkington, ergo...

Mind you, this is what I understand from the club bylaws as I remember them. It could be a CYA thing, but I wouldn't be terribly surprised if the town had such a bylaw. And you're right, it would be costly to fight, there's no guarantee you'll win and is that the best use of limited club resources?
 
I have been looking at becoming a member of Southboro for a whle and was down there last nite talking to some people. Apparently it's the golf course next door that wants the place shut down (and has for a while). The family involved in the incident just wants to make sure the range is safe and this never happens again.

Wouldn't surprise me. The golf course is probably drooling over the idea of buying up that property and developing it for themselves!

I think a nice 40B development would enhance the golf club just fine! [shocked] [devil] [rolleyes]
 
We are all victims of the economic pressure of commercial and residential developments in the Eastern part of the state. A long time ago (~20 years) we used to hunt for deers in Sudbury. Today farm lands and nurseries have been replaced by million dollars houses and there is no more room to hunt. Rail-trails are being built so that the occupants of the million dollars houses can take walks in the nature ... on asphalt. You don't want to get dirt on your shoes when you live a a million dollar house! Gun clubs that used to be in the middle of nowhere are now surrounded by houses and will eventually fold under the pressure.

Location,Location, Location. People do not understand that the reason they moved to the burbs is the same reason Gun clubs are there.....Open space!
Once the new buyers realize that the peace and quiet they paid dearly for is being disturbed they would rather spend scads of money getting rid of the problem instead of talking with the club and coming up with a viable solution.
 
RE agents...

Having just left the business, I was wondering about the disclosure factor about that having a range near by. As for disclosure its "usually" (99% of the time) for known defects of the property itself. A big thing that comes up as a hypothetical is ghosts or murders in a home. Ghosts are not a PHYSICAL defect and therefore don't need to be disclosed. And a murder is something that has become public record, and also doesn't necessarily need to be disclosed by law. Those items are considered a pshychological impact on a home, not a physical one. ---Having said all this I was just an agent for a few years, and not a broker who specialized in the minutuae (sp?) of the laws.--- But ideally the broker/sales agent should know their stuff about the town they are selling in and list that oh, there's a golf course and firearm range over at so and so street. I would disclose that if I were trying to sell that house, could be a good selling point!
 
I too, just became a member at SRG and this is driving me up a wall. No center fire rifle allowed unless a range master is present until renovations are completed. Also, the neighborhood that the stray round landed in is a brand new development located up the hill from the club. Up until a few years ago it was just the club and the golf course at the top of the hill. I don't know where I'll end up shooting if they close this club. I joined there because it was convenient access for me and had everything I needed. *sigh* Sorry for the rant. I hope they get this straightened out soon. I know some of the berms have already been moved. There are also plans to cover the berms with a good thick layer of wood chips. Hopefully all these modifications can meet/exceed any requirements.
 
Wouldn't surprise me. The golf course is probably drooling over the idea of buying up that property and developing it for themselves!
[rolleyes]

It's not surprising that the golf course owners are the main complainants here.

I'm not a golfer nor do I have any interest in it, but I'd guess that the owners probably hear a lot of complaints/gripes from players about the noise... golfing and gunshots = missed putts.

As far as the land is concerned... I could easily see the course owners scheming with developers to build a "golf community" right next door.
 
I never understood having to be quiet for golf... All the other sports it's okay to have noise.

It's a hell of a lot more difficult to skate in to the slot with a 230 defenseman checking you while you roof the biscuit glove side with the crowd roaring, than it is to drain a 6 footer with dead silence... [thinking]
 
One of our police academies back in NJ built a famtastic range about fifteen years ago. At the time they spent ove 1.5 million on the range. It was computerized and had two ranges of 50 positions each. It was one of the best on the east coast.

When built, it was in a fairly open area. Then they put the condos and a golf course nearby. No night shooting is banned and fill auto is not welcomed by the area residents.

Could be worse. The NJ Air National Guard could use it for their training !!!!
 
In the town i grew up in, we were really near a local MA army base. A guy three houses down decided to re-roof his house and found at least 20 rounds lodged in the roofing. Theres no way they were ricochets and it was determined that soldiers had been firing into the air at some point, but it was unknown when due to the age of the rounds and roof.

My club in Plaistow has one of the scariest outdoor ranges ive ever seen. Its a 75 yard range with a large dirt pile for a berm. When shooting, you can see houses beyond the berm no more than 500 yards away just to the right of the berm. Luckily, its a smallish club and not many people use the outdoor range because it seems like a disaster waiting to happen.

Dont people buying houses look into the area they are buying? These people built and bought a house with a backyard that has a clear view of the backstop of a rifle range...ive seen kids playing in the back yard.

Holy Smokes!! [shocked] You've got to be kidding!! I'd find a new club. That is a little too easy to make a mistake and really hurt someone!

Regardless of who's fault it is that the houses are down range, that is an obviously dangerous situation and you'll be shown no mercy if anyone gets hurt.
 
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