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R&P- I'm thinking of tossing all of this brass!

L

Lugnut

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I've been reloading a bunch of .45ACP lately. All kinds of brass. I'll tell you though... R&P is crappy as hell IMO. I've never had any other brass that won't hold the bullet tight (piss poor throat tension is what I'm saying) and excessively loose primer pockets (have noticed black soot around primers after firing).

I'll tell you... the more I reload the more I can notice the "little" things.

Wincheser, Federal and Startline are by far the absolute best IMO.

Reloader beware!!
 
Dave,
I don’t think I’ve done much reloading with R&P 45 ACP brass, but thanks for the heads up. If you’re having problems then by all means toss it. What is the history of the brass you’re having problem with?


Respectfully,

jkelly
 
I haven't had any trouble with R-P brass, my guns eat it as they do everything else, but I have noticed that it is lighter than Win, which could mean thin. Maybe that has something to do with the tension problem. The primer holes are sort of chamfered on the 9mm. I wonder if that leads to loose pockets.

The factory primers they load in R-P are super soft. You can be very confident in picking up that brass "once-fired", at least with 9mm, because the factory primers often show primer flow with a distinct crater.
 
jkelly said:
Dave,
I don’t think I’ve done much reloading with R&P 45 ACP brass, but thanks for the heads up. If you’re having problems then by all means toss it. What is the history of the brass you’re having problem with?


Respectfully,

jkelly
Click to expand...

The brass in question has been used several times. Since R&P is so common these days- I can't be sure that it was all mine to begin with.

However- I've never had any other brass (to date) where I've been able to easily push the bullet all the way into the case with my finger after the brass was resized. Maybe I'm too concerned but I'm definitely seeing a pattern. Bullet set back is a concern to me.

I can say that when I've used Once Fired R&P brass they seem to be fine.... it's just they don't seem to hold up compared to other brass.
 
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GTOShootr said:
The primer holes are sort of chamfered on the 9mm. I wonder if that leads to loose pockets.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I think the chamfered pockets are are good for starting the seating of the primers. Not sure if they are the cause for loose pockets... but I've seen a fair share of cases with black soot around the primers... that's not good IMHO and I've never seen any of my brass have this other than R&P.
 
I've been using R-P nickle-plated 45 ACP +P brass for a while. I've got about 12 reloadings through it so far.
 
I've noticed that R-P brass is thin in lots of calibers - 10mm, 45 ACP, .380, .32ACP, .38 Special...

Whether or not you can load it depends on your resizing die. From manufacturer to manufacturer (or even did-to-die for the same manufacturer), resizing dies will vary dimensionally. If a die is a couple of thousandths oversize, it can result in loose bullets when loading thin (R-P) brass.

For 10mm and .45 ACP, I went to undersized sizing dies and that fixed the R-P problem. I bought the dies rather than tossing out the brass because I had tons of the R-P brass.

I have yet to find a solution for loading R-P .32 ACP though.
 
EddieCoyle said:
I've noticed that R-P brass is thin in lots of calibers - 10mm, 45 ACP, .380, .32ACP, .38 Special...

Whether or not you can load it depends on your resizing die. From manufacturer to manufacturer (or even did-to-die for the same manufacturer), resizing dies will vary dimensionally. If a die is a couple of thousandths oversize, it can result in loose bullets when loading thin (R-P) brass.

For 10mm and .45 ACP, I went to undersized sizing dies and that fixed the R-P problem. I bought the dies rather than tossing out the brass because I had tons of the R-P brass.

I have yet to find a solution for loading R-P .32 ACP though.
Click to expand...

Hmmm that's an idea. I'm pretty sure I checked the ID of the die I'm using now with another .45 die I have and they are basically the same. It is interesting how some have not encountered this problem at all....
 
I have not had any trouble with R-P brass, I like it better than W-W in .45-70. What kind of primers are you using? Did you ever use a different brand of primer?

It is best to get rid of the brass that has black marks. It could work 10 more time or lock up the gun the next time you fire it. Be safe.
 
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I've got lots of R-P brass in .40 and .45. I have not noticed any problems with it in either caliber.

Currently using Dillon dies for .45; RCBS for .40 and, before the second machine, .45 as well.

Carbide, of course. I also use a Lee FCD for both calibers.
 
one-eyed Jack said:
The .45 acp taper crimp is critical. I was loading it back when most of you guys were still pissing your pants. Taper crimp to .465" at the case mouth. Jack.
Click to expand...

Taper crimp won't make up for bad throad tension. A taper crimp for a semi will not hold the bullet in place.. that's not what the taper crimp is for.
 
The .45 acp taper crimp is critical. I was loading it back when most of you guys were still pissing your pants. Taper crimp to .465" at the case mouth. Jack.
Click to expand...

I'm starting again.
 
Lugnut said:
Taper crimp won't make up for bad throad tension. A taper crimp for a semi will not hold the bullet in place.. that's not what the taper crimp is for.
Click to expand...

Really?

It's working just fine for my .38 Super "race gun" loads, my .40 S&W and my .45 ACP.

If "that's not what the taper crimp is for," just what purpose does it serve?
 
On my machines, the taper crimp is to remove the bell and it is the resizing through the length of the case that creates tension to hold the bullet. It works.
 
Scrivener said:
Really?

It's working just fine for my .38 Super "race gun" loads, my .40 S&W and my .45 ACP.

If "that's not what the taper crimp is for," just what purpose does it serve?
Click to expand...


It removes the bell... that's about it. I think you are sadly mistaken if you think a taper crimp will do anything to hold a bullet in a .45ACP case. A roll crimp with a bullet with a cannelure... that's altogether different.
 
GTOShootr said:
On my machines, the taper crimp is to remove the bell and it is the resizing through the length of the case that creates tension to hold the bullet. It works.
Click to expand...

Yes, throat tension is what holds the bullet... not the taper crimp.
 
The taper crimp does not hold the bullet. If the bullet is loose in the case after resizing, excessive taper crimp will only make it looser.
 
Lugnut said:
It removes the bell... that's about it. I think you are sadly mistaken if you think a taper crimp will do anything to hold a bullet in a .45ACP case. A roll crimp with a bullet with a cannelure... that's altogether different.
Click to expand...

Really? What do you think "crimp" means?
Hint: NOT "Removes bell."

How is it that virtually ALL auto cartridges employ the supposedly-useless taper crimp if all it only "removes the bell?"

Even my poly-coated bullets manage to remain in place using a TAPER crimp (now aided and abetted by the FCD). That includes all my .45 ACP loads, used in both my SVI and 625.
 
Remember, guys, that the .45 acp headspaces on the case mouth, and the .465 dia. will ensure that the round will chamber OK. Of course, the case will have to be sized correctly to hold the bullet tightly. The OA length of the loaded round also needs to be watched for reliable feeding. Jack.
 
Sorry Keith. I think you are wrong. I'm not the only one that validated this. Yes, the taper crimp removes the bell... if you don't remove the bell you would likely have feeding problems. Bottom line the taper crimp is not the means for retaining the bullets in .45ACP. If you don't have enough tension in the brass to begin with your brass is toast.

Scrivener said:
Really? What do you think "crimp" means?
Hint: NOT "Removes bell."

How is it that virtually ALL auto cartridges employ the supposedly-useless taper crimp if all it only "removes the bell?"

Even my poly-coated bullets manage to remain in place using a TAPER crimp (now aided and abetted by the FCD). That includes all my .45 ACP loads, used in both my SVI and 625.
Click to expand...
 
Taper crimps and roll crimps each remove the bell. No distinguishing characteristics there.

Loose brass is loose brass, and crimp won't improve. it. At best, a roll crimp on a cannelured or flush-seated bullet would hold, but barely.

The taper crimp simply applies the pressure along a larger area. And it works fine in my .45's and is THE crimp supplied in my RCBS and Dillon .45 ACP die sets.

Clearly the taper crimp works in that caliber, and many others.

I think the REAL issue is case tension and, further, that we all agree it is case tension which holds the bullet when sufficient and permits set-back when it is not.

How one removes the bell and restores the case mouth to proper OD is secondary to proper case tension.

Are we all on the same page now?
 
I have loaded 10's of thousands of 45 ACP rounds. Alway's used a taper crimp. Never trimmed any brass, and as long as the overall case length was correct, they always chambered, and went BANG when fired! Most of these were with cast 200G SWC or 230 G RN bullets made with wheel weights.
 

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