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Quincy man charged after guns found in car, home Read more: http://www.patriotledger

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Finalygotabeltfed

it will end up being the he said , she said debate but bottom line is your never suppose to pull out your gun unless you intend on using it correct? Atleast thats what i was always told. This guys lapse of judgement and anger at the moment is gonna cost him.I agree there are some angry whack jobs driving the roads out there. you just never know

But it wasn't his gun, it was his cell phone. It has not been proven otherwise to my knowledge or yours....yet.[wink]
 

beaker

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So you saw him pull put a gun and wave it around? What happened to innocent until proven guilty? I hope nobody calls the police on you because they saw you handling a firearm outside of your basement. Then you will get burned because you are obviously unsuitable.

I don't care what state this guy is from. He deserved to get burned for pulling a gun for getting cut off. He makes the rest of us look bad.



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What about this "In addition to assault, he is also charged with disturbing the peace while armed." crap?

Does this mean that if I am carrying in public and I sneeze, they can take my gun/LTC??? What exactly is considered "disturbing the peace"?
He's lucky they didn't also hit him w/ distracted driving?
But seriously, if it's all true this guy was an a-hole and needs no excuses from here...
 
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Base on just the information we've been given this guy was wrong. Even if the person cutting him off was raging, do you pull a gun at that point? Drawing a gun and raising it high enough to be seen while driving is not the same as minding your business and the wind blows your shirt open exposing your gun. Now I wouldn't punish him to the extent MA is going to.
 
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Finalygotabeltfed

Base on just the information we've been given this guy was wrong. Even if the person cutting him off was raging, do you pull a gun at that point? Drawing a gun and raising it high enough to be seen while driving is not the same as minding your business and the wind blows your shirt open exposing your gun. Now I wouldn't punish him to the extent MA is going to.

In answer to your question, quite possibly yes.

Numerous cops around the country have shot many people dead for very similar circumstances.....using a car as a weapon. If the guy presented enough of a threat, yes I'd draw on him. People carrying and willing to draw their weapon and use it if necessary is what keeps society more civil and respectful and keeps the real a**h***s in check.
I can assure you if you pull shit like that (driving like an ass and cutting people off) in most other parts of the country there's a very high probability that you'll have a gun drawn on you and only slightly less of one that you'll be fired on.

Lets turn the tables here for a second......if the gut driving like an ass cut off your family and killed or severely injured one of them, then at a later date you heard that another driver had shot him for doing the same to them without the death involved........would you support their action?
 
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I don't believe in gun licensing or revocation unless the person is imprisoned. The guy deserves to be punished if he assaulted someone. But, I don't see how we can claim to be for "innocent until proven guilty", and support denying someone their rights until they have been tried and convicted and sent to prison.

If we believe that this person is dangerous enough to warrant taking his guns away, we must believe that he should be in jail and denied bail until his trial. Because, as we all know, denying someone their "LTC" does not prevent them from committing violent crimes.

If we don't believe that he is dangerous enough to be in jail until his trial, then we must not take his right to defend his life away.
 
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He's lucky they didn't also hit him w/ distracted driving?
But seriously, if it's all true this guy was an a-hole and needs no excuses from here...
I completely think he was wrong (based only on the news report... the media are NEVER wrong) but that doesn't answer the question about "disturbing the peace". Based on this description, a loud motorcyclist should lose their motorcycle until excessive noise claims can be proven false. I don't want to sound like Im siding with this A-hole, but I also don't want him to only be charged on blanket charges, either.

Base on just the information we've been given this guy was wrong. Even if the person cutting him off was raging, do you pull a gun at that point? Drawing a gun and raising it high enough to be seen while driving is not the same as minding your business and the wind blows your shirt open exposing your gun. Now I wouldn't punish him to the extent MA is going to.
If you are able to get away (still in a running car that can move away from the situation) then the gun should never have been drawn and he should have removed himself from the situation. If he was unable to get away, maybe he has a case.
 
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In answer to your question, quite possibly yes.

Numerous cops around the country have shot many people dead for very similar circumstances.....using a car as a weapon. If the guy presented enough of a threat, yes I'd draw on him. People carrying and willing to draw their weapon and use it if necessary is what keeps society more civil and respectful and keeps the real a**h***s in check.
I can assure you if you pull shit like that (driving like an ass and cutting people off) in most other parts of the country there's a very high probability that you'll have a gun drawn on you and only slightly less of one that you'll be fired on.

Lets turn the tables here for a second......if the gut driving like an ass cut off your family and killed or severely injured one of them, then at a later date you heard that another driver had shot him for doing the same to them without the death involved........would you support their action?

I think this is actually an interesting and a good point to make. I think people should consider the potential that a vehicle is a deadly weapon and that if someone were to use it in such an manner during a road rage incident, that it is putting one's life in danger, I don't see how it wouldn't be acceptable to draw your ccw and potentially defend yourself.

I'm not saying that did or didn't happen here. But, its enough to show us that someone who happened to be accused of drawing a firearm should still retain their rights until they've been convicted. Because, there are some circumstances where it might be warranted, and that person should be innocent until proven guilty like the rest of us.
 
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Do not talk to police without a lawyer.
Do not talk to police without a lawyer.
Do not talk to police without a lawyer.
Do not talk to police without a lawyer.
Do not talk to police without a lawyer.
Do not talk to police without a lawyer.
Do not talk to police without a lawyer.
Do not talk to police without a lawyer.
Do not talk to police without a lawyer.
Do not talk to police without a lawyer.
Do not talk to police without a lawyer.
Do not talk to police without a lawyer.
Do not talk to police without a lawyer.
Do not talk to police without a lawyer.
Do not talk to police without a lawyer.
Do not talk to police without a lawyer.
Do not talk to police without a lawyer.
So, should I talk to police without a lawyer?
 
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In answer to your question, quite possibly yes.

Numerous cops around the country have shot many people dead for very similar circumstances.....using a car as a weapon. If the guy presented enough of a threat, yes I'd draw on him. People carrying and willing to draw their weapon and use it if necessary is what keeps society more civil and respectful and keeps the real a**h***s in check.
I can assure you if you pull shit like that (driving like an ass and cutting people off) in most other parts of the country there's a very high probability that you'll have a gun drawn on you and only slightly less of one that you'll be fired on.

Lets turn the tables here for a second......if the gut driving like an ass cut off your family and killed or severely injured one of them, then at a later date you heard that another driver had shot him for doing the same to them without the death involved........would you support their action?

The article says he was cut off. No more, no less. Let's not add to this scenario. You do not draw because someone is driving like an a**h***. Were that the case my gun would never be holstered.

In other parts of the country the person drwing would be just as wrong. It doesn't change anything.

Again, you're adding to the scenario. We have to stick to the facts of this story. If he killed my family then hopefully he would have already paid the price. If he was later driving like an ass and someone shot him for it the shooter would still be wrong. I would be glad the guy was shot after what he did to my family, but at that point I'd hardly be an unbiased judge.
 
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I think this is actually an interesting and a good point to make. I think people should consider the potential that a vehicle is a deadly weapon and that if someone were to use it in such an manner during a road rage incident, that it is putting one's life in danger, I don't see how it wouldn't be acceptable to draw your ccw and potentially defend yourself.

People do a lot of things that are potentially dangerous. If shooting them for it is the standard I think this weekend I should sit outside a bar and shoot people heading to their cars that I feel drank to much. Once they start the car it's two to the chest and one to the head. Potential danger ended.
 

flintoid

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Again, you're adding to the scenario. We have to stick to the facts of this story. If he killed my family then hopefully he would have already paid the price. If he was later driving like an ass and someone shot him for it the shooter would still be wrong. I would be glad the guy was shot after what he did to my family, but at that point I'd hardly be an unbiased judge.

The thing about a story is that it doesn't tell you all of the facts. So you making assumptions on a situation explained by an article with a mile high brief view of the factual data about the incident is not a wise idea.
 

drgrant

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The thing about a story is that it doesn't tell you all of the facts. So you making assumptions on a situation explained by an article with a mile high brief view of the factual data about the incident is not a wise idea.

Yup... but some people can't wait to get out the...

 
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But at the moment we have nothing else to go on. As more come out about this story my opinion may evolve. On the surface this guy overreacted.
Now can averyone just agree with me so I can get off to the range?[wink]
 

flintoid

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But at the moment we have nothing else to go on. As more come out about this story my opinion may evolve. On the surface this guy overreacted.
Now can averyone just agree with me so I can get off to the range?[wink]

No, because you made assumptions on the story that all of the facts are on the table. If you can make assumptions on a blip of a news article, others are going to chime in with hypotheticals because everyone knows that the media never tells the whole story, which leads to the debate that you are no longer wanting to participate in.

I don't care what state this guy is from. He deserved to get burned for pulling a gun for getting cut off. He makes the rest of us look bad.

If you're going to make strong statements like that, you gotta back it up. Was the guy in danger or not? How do you know he was being an idiot? The thing is- you don't know. So you're going to get flamed for calling the guy an idiot around here.
 

flintoid

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I'm not trying to be an ass. I'm just trying to explain that the media sucks, and will paint people in the light that gets the most eyes on the article. Villanization is an easy way to get grandma and the aunt gossiping about their local happenings.

including more facts about the situation won't lead to such an easy villain, or heel, for a story. Which is what you, fivepak, fell for.

You say he's bad for us gun owners. But you don't know exactly what he did that was "bad." It might not have been. All we know is that the media painted him this way, which makes it unfair of us to assume that it's his fault.
 
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No, because you made assumptions on the story that all of the facts are on the table. If you can make assumptions on a blip of a news article, others are going to chime in with hypotheticals because everyone knows that the media never tells the whole story, which leads to the debate that you are no longer wanting to participate in.



If you're going to make strong statements like that, you gotta back it up. Was the guy in danger or not? How do you know he was being an idiot? The thing is- you don't know. So you're going to get flamed for calling the guy an idiot around here.

Actually if you read all the posts on this thread I'm not alone. Plus, you guys on the other side of the argument are also making assumptions. You assume he was in danger. I guess I'm at fault for basing my opinion on just the facts given. Stupid me. From now on we should never start a thread on a news story until we can post transcripts from the trial. Happy?

- - - Updated - - -

Now I'm off to the range. God help anyone that cuts me off, because it's their ass.[rolleyes]
 

flintoid

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Actually if you read all the posts on this thread I'm not alone. Plus, you guys on the other side of the argument are also making assumptions. You assume he was in danger. I guess I'm at fault for basing my opinion on just the facts given. Stupid me. From now on we should never start a thread on a news story until we can post transcripts from the trial. Happy?

the only thing I am assuming is that the media doesn't tell the whole story. Which is a very safe assumption to make.
 
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In answer to your question, quite possibly yes.

Numerous cops around the country have shot many people dead for very similar circumstances.....using a car as a weapon. If the guy presented enough of a threat, yes I'd draw on him. People carrying and willing to draw their weapon and use it if necessary is what keeps society more civil and respectful and keeps the real a**h***s in check.
I can assure you if you pull shit like that (driving like an ass and cutting people off) in most other parts of the country there's a very high probability that you'll have a gun drawn on you and only slightly less of one that you'll be fired on.

Lets turn the tables here for a second......if the gut driving like an ass cut off your family and killed or severely injured one of them, then at a later date you heard that another driver had shot him for doing the same to them without the death involved........would you support their action?

Do the real a**h***s give a shit if people are armed, maybe in Kennesaw? The death penalty doesn't dissuade these real a**h***s. Because they never think they will get caught, whether it be by a armed citizen or the law.
 
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I'm not trying to be an ass. I'm just trying to explain that the media sucks, and will paint people in the light that gets the most eyes on the article. Villanization is an easy way to get grandma and the aunt gossiping about their local happenings.

I fully agree on this point. My brother spend 18 months in Valley street for total bullshit and the local media convicted him before he even had a court date. Again, I'm just going with what's presented here. Just light conversation. Our opinions here with not change this guy's fate either way.
 

flintoid

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I fully agree on this point. My brother spend 18 months in Valley street for total bullshit and the local media convicted him before he even had a court date. Again, I'm just going with what's presented here. Just light conversation. Our opinions here with not change this guy's fate either way.

good point. The only thing I disagree with you here is calling him an idiot. The thing is- I don't know if he was being an idiot or not. All I know is that the media is making him look like one, which sucks.

have fun at the range!
 

drgrant

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I fully agree on this point. My brother spend 18 months in Valley street for total bullshit and the local media convicted him before he even had a court date. Again, I'm just going with what's presented here. Just light conversation. Our opinions here with not change this guy's fate either way.

Here's some food for thought. Linda Hamilton...

http://billstclair.com/LindaHamilton/

You can argue that maybe what she did was wrong, but IMHO the punishment she received did not fit the "crime" it basically destroyed her life, which lead her to suicide. So think about that for a minute before you cast judgement on someone who "supposedly" pulled a gun on another driver.

-Mike
 

terraformer

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The evidence of that is what, exactly? All the article stated is he agreed to surrender his weapons.
Rodriguez told police he also had several firearms and ammunition at his home, which he agreed to turn over for a review, Burrell said.

My point being is that the PD made it clear how they saw the seizure of the firearms by making that statement. Enough PDs are doing doorstep revocations of LTCs and immediately seizing the firearms, finding legal high caps and playing the "now the owner needs to prove these are legal" game that I am noticing the trend.

He could have made them get a warrant; LTC revocation doesn't automatically get the cops into the house.

In theory. Practice is another story. Because lets face it, once the LTC is pulled, the judge knows his possession of the guns in his home (which they get from MIRCS) is illegal so the warrant is pro forma. Pasqualone v. Gately, 422 Mass. 398, 662 N.E.2d 1034, 1996 Mass. (1996) makes it clear a warrant is needed but once the LTC is pulled, the crime is in progress. So combine a discretionary LTC, the registration of firearms and a sufficiently intelligent cop, you have ready made PC to get any warrant by just claiming the LTC has been pulled and the guns are likely in the home. A non critical thinking judge who hasn't thought through this and voila, instant PC, just revoke the LTC.

I think you and I have had this debate before...déjà vu...
Probably.
 

DickWanner

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So you feel someone cutting you off in traffic justifies drawing your firearm? Do you think anyone should defend this clown? His reckless behavior does make gun owners look bad.

Who is the victim of this assault charge if he didn't point it at anyone? Being stupid isn't a crime (unfortunately), nor should it be. If you really believe in "all of us", you should be backing this guy simply because it'll be that much easier for them to revoke your license and take away your guns when they come for you. You say you have a brother who was screwed over by the media, yet you still fall for their ploy every time. Just means they've succeeded in brainwashing you.
 
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Being stupid isn't a crime (unfortunately), nor should it be.

You are right, but I think some people are trying to make the point that all it takes is a few stupid gun owners to give all of us a bad name. And that is true. If you are going to carry a gun, especially in MA, use your brain. Its not that hard.
 
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The simple fact of the matter is that in MA, you cannot "make ready" with a firearm in any manner that allows another party to see it or very bad things are likely to happen.
 
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Plus, you guys on the other side of the argument are also making assumptions. You assume he was in danger.

Actually, what were doing. Is presuming that he's innocent until we have sufficient evidence to prove otherwise beyond a reasonable doubt.

You know...the way we do things in America?
 
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