Questions on Training

[Skald]

Ok,

I am looking for training now that I have a CCW. Right now I don't have a pistol but hopefully will have that remedied by the new year.

Now, even though I wont be taking any training til the new year, I am curious as to how some trainers will adapt if a student does have a handicap. I mean, if they require kneeling other quick manuevers, I am SOL due to the fact of my hip and back.

One basic course I am thinking of for sure is the GOAL one. Anyone have any feedback on this one? The info suggested its both class and range and even legal aspects. This is one thing that interested me as many friends say to me 'Ignorance of the law is not an excuse.'

Thanks in advance,

Brian

 

[Lynne]

There are some course that you won't be able to do Brian. Question - will your hip keep you restricted forever? Or will you be mobile and moving around after you have the surgery? I would suggest you practice (when you get the gun) and do what you can to improve your marksmanship skills. Once you move better, then you can start checking in to other things.

(I'm a cert. instructor, btw.)

 

[Chris]

Goal's "Art of Concealed Carry" is about the legal and practical topics regarding carry in Massachusetts. No shooting, all classroom. Good Class. Great place to start.

I really liked the AWARE "Responsible Use of Lethal Force" class too. Ms. Bates does a really good job drilling the basics. Part 1 is classroom only. Part 2 is range work. You can take part 1 and then talk to her about what you could do for part 2.

(Is it just me, or are there a lot of people named Lynn around that are good instructors?)

I don't remember anything crazy up at LFI 1. Mostly just standing exercises, but that might have changed. (was a while ago) The lectures and in-class demos there are the real reason to take that class and are the most vivid memories for me.

The NRA Personal Protection isn't so much about carry, as it is the tactics of defense in a building like your home. Riverside's offers some tactics that isn't too stressful, but again, it isn't geared to 'on the street'.

What you need is a good class in the 'tactics' of fighting with a gun. But every one of those I've taken have been VERY physical. But then I was looking explicitly for that.

But, that said, I don't know any instructor I've ever had that wasn't willing to work with a student that had a physical difficulty. One of the classes I took in Arizona had a gentleman who walked with a cane. Great shot, but not at all fast on his feet. He did what he could and the instructors working with him all made changes t the drills to allow him to work on his own abilities.

Hell, Most of the people who really try at some of the bigger schools are not in the best of shape, but put far more 'heart' into the training than the average Gun-Hoo that shows up.

(I don't know if I could ever teach an advanced class after seeing some of the people those classes attract - I remember one guy I think half the class wanted to just take out and shoot. You can get some real egos.)

Best advice is to take something to get the basics in legal and methodology training. You need to know HOW to carry and WHEN you can draw far more than you need to know the various tactics of fighting as the first part will get you into trouble far more easily.

 

[Skald]

The thing with my hip I'm unsure. I can go and kneel etc, but will have difficulty standing back up. I can only run on good days, walk on the worst.

I apprecaite the input. I may just have to ask when I am actually ready to find some training.

It is good to hear that some instructors don't mind and will work with a student who has limitations. I guess I will have to ask them before I fork over the money.


Lynne - What classes do you teach?

 

[KMaurer]

One of the important things is understanding exactly what the class is about. A lot of students get confused on this point, and so do a regretably large number of instructors. If the course is one of the basics like Home Firearm Safety or Basic Pistol/Rifle/Shotgun, then there shouldn't be anything that would prohibit someone with noticeable physical impairments from participating fully. The NRA Personal Protection course is about, uhhh, let me see, personal protection. So the focus is and should be limited to (1) things you can do to avoid having to use a gun for protection and (2) how to best use one if you need to. As a result, no good instructor should be attempting to impose some technique that a student won't be able to use in the real world.

When you get beyond these (which are the ones I teach), you should read the course descriptions carefully and talk with the instructors or at least someone who has taken the course before signing up to ensure that it's really what you want. Most of the better known schools (e.g., LFI, SigArms, S&W, etc.) attempt to teach practical methods, which means an approach that will work for the student. Some more specialized courses will make physical demands that not every students can deal with succesfully, and most are very up-front about it.

Ken

 

[Lynne]

Lynne - What classes do you teach?

Hubby and I are certified for Basic Pistol, Home Firearms Safety and the NRA Personal Protection courses.

And, thank you Ken. [oops]

 

[SiameseRat]

Lynne - What classes do you teach?

Hubby and I are certified for Basic Pistol, Home Firearms Safety and the NRA Personal Protection courses.

And, thank you Ken. [oops]

I'm getting cert'd for Basic Safety at the end of the month. But it took a lot of badgering to get the class set up for me (I've been coaching, but not instructing the classes at my range). Lynne, where did you get your other certs done? I want to get cert'd on a few topics after I get my Basic cert. Any suggestions as to which I should do next and where I should get the cert?

 

[Lynne]

SR - I got my training through GOAL about 6+ years ago. First was Basic Pistol, then we did PP.

 

[KMaurer]

Check the GOAL web page or The Outdoor Messenger for their schedule of instructor classes. I taught the rifle instructor classes for GOAL a couple of years ago and can certify for HFS, Pistol, Rifle and Personal Protection. I don't have a regular schedule for instructor classes, but will run one whenever I get enough people who are interested. (Unlike the basic classes themselves, which can be done one-on-one, you need at least 2-3 candidates to do an instructor class the way NRA says you should.)

Ken

 

[SiameseRat]

Ok- I'll see how the basic cert goes. Personal protection seems like a good next step.

 

[Lynne]

Ok- I'll see how the basic cert goes. Personal protection seems like a good next step.

It is. Where are you taking the Basic??

 

[SiameseRat]

Ok- I'll see how the basic cert goes. Personal protection seems like a good next step.

It is. Where are you taking the Basic??

We're having a small class at the MRA. I've been coaching the BFSC but we want to get all the coaches cert'd. Just a few of the coaches aren't cert'd already, one of whom is me. But they don't do a lot of cert classes. Just the monthly BFSC. So I'll have to go elsewhere to pick up any other certs I want.

 

[M1911]

Now, even though I wont be taking any training til the new year, I am curious as to how some trainers will adapt if a student does have a handicap. I mean, if they require kneeling other quick manuevers, I am SOL due to the fact of my hip and back.

I've taken classes from Aware, SigArms Academy, S&W Academy, LFI, Randy Cain and others. If you can't kneel you're thrown off the line for good.

Just kidding.

As long as you are safe and listen to the rules, they will work with you. If you can't do a particular drill, then you can't do it. Not a big deal.

I've got bad feet and need to sit down a lot. Randy Cain didn't have any problem with my dragging a chair up behind the line so I could sit while he talked. I did my best to make sure that it didn't slow down the class, nor did it compromise safety. Also, I cleared it with Randy before bringing the chair onto the range.

At the beginning of the class, catch a quiet moment with the instructor and tell them what your handicap is. They will work with you.

 

[USMA-82]

Brian -

You and I chatted about your hip problem while we were waiting for the Carbine match to start at AFS. And, obviously, I saw how it affected you during the match.

First - I have to echo what everyone else is saying. Instructors WILL work with you - all you have to do is be upfront and explain things. If they can't be flexible for whatever reason, there are plenty of other courses and instructors around.

Second - it's alot like learning to drive. You need to learn the rules of the road first, then learn about the mechanics of driving around. Attend one of the "philosophy of concealed carry" courses first. GOAL does have an excellent seminar that would give you just that. Check out their website.

Ken

 

[Len-2A Training]

I've got bad feet and need to sit down a lot. Randy Cain didn't have any problem with my dragging a chair up behind the line so I could sit while he talked. I did my best to make sure that it didn't slow down the class, nor did it compromise safety. Also, I cleared it with Randy before bringing the chair onto the range.

At the beginning of the class, catch a quiet moment with the instructor and tell them what your handicap is. They will work with you.

Gee, and I thought you were just being smart!

I ended up copying you and moving my chair in to sit when the opportunity avails itself. I also have foot problems, but never bothered to talk with Randy or Gabe about it. I did take a prophylactic dose of Ibuprofen before and during the courses.

 

[M1911]

I did take a prophylactic dose of Ibuprofen before and during the courses.

I was taking Aleve (Naproxen Sodium), but it doesn't do a whole lot of good for my plantar fasciitus.

 

[dwarven1]

I was taking Aleve (Naproxen Sodium), but it doesn't do a whole lot of good for my plantar fasciitus.

The only thing that makes mine not hurt is staying off my feet.

 

[Skald]

I did take a prophylactic dose of Ibuprofen before and during the courses.

I pop ibuprofen like M&M's now. My friends are all waiting for me to have a candy dish filled with it.

But on the bright side, talked with the surgeon who will be doing my hip replacement (Total hip) and says only thing I will not be allowed to do is run/jog. Can kneel, sit bend over etc.

 

[Len-2A Training]

I did take a prophylactic dose of Ibuprofen before and during the courses.

I was taking Aleve (Naproxen Sodium), but it doesn't do a whole lot of good for my plantar fasciitus.

Mine is Morton's Neuroma, both feet. Had it diagnosed after an agonizing 2 week trip to Israel in 2000 where we were walking an average of 5-10 miles/day . . . a lot of which was on 5000 year old stone walkways/roads.

 

[KMaurer]

But on the bright side, talked with the surgeon who will be doing my hip replacement (Total hip) and says only thing I will not be allowed to do is run/jog. Can kneel, sit bend over etc.

He's being conservative, setting very low expectations so that there's almost no chance of not meeting them. We were over in Israel about 10 years ago with a group that included 4-5 people who had had hip or knee replacements within the previous 2-3 years. They were all walking, climbing, and occassionally jogging as much as anyone else. You'll be more than pleased with the results.

Ken

 

[Skald]

Were they total hip replacement or partial? I'd rather take the doc's advice and not jog or run and then have to do this again when I'm 40. One of the biggest reasons they were holding out was because I am so young for this procedure.

 

[Lynne]

Were they total hip replacement or partial? I'd rather take the doc's advice and not jog or run and then have to do this again when I'm 40. One of the biggest reasons they were holding out was because I am so young for this procedure.

There's a guy in my cardiac rehab who's in his 70's and had a full hip replacement 5 years ago. (His LDL was WAY bad and he had a heart attack) He was playing golf and skiing (and I think he said water skiing too) within two years of his hip replacement. Besides - walking fast is much better for exercise.

 

[M1911]

The only thing that makes mine not hurt is staying off my feet.

I know that feeling all too well. I've had it for more than 10 years. Whenever a doctor tells me it will go away by itself, I'm very tempted to do something I would regret [evil]