Questions about the NFA Process

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I would like to purchase a factory Sig 556SBR. The way I understand it; this would be done via a form 4.

My question is at what point do I actually purchase the firearm? I know I cannot take possession of it until after I receive my tax stamp.

I would be purchasing as an individual, live in a green town, but am unsure about my CLEO's stance on SBRs. I obviously need the serial number of the firearm for the Form 4. What if I paid for the firearm and my CLEO refuses to signoff?

Thanks in advance.
 
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First, check to see if you can find a distributor who can get you one. Some manufacturers voluntarily restrict this sort of toy and won't knowingly sell to simple civilians even when they have the proper paperwork.
 
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First, check to see if you can find a distributor who can get you one. Some manufacturers voluntarily restrict this sort of toy and won't knowingly sell to simple civilians even when they have the proper paperwork.

There is a local shop that will accept the transfer.

As much as I'd like to take the CLEO's word for it...I'd rather have it in writing before I lay out the money for the firearm.

And I'm still unclear as to when money actually changes hands for the gun.
 
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You pay for the item then do the Form 4. Find a dealer that can get it for you and have them get it transferred to them as a dealer to dealer transfer (Form 3). Then go pay for it, do the Form 4 and wait, and wait, and wait some more.

Then when the Form 4 comes back approved just go and pick it up (and do the federal & state normal gun purchase paperwork).

Also most NFA dealers understand the process and know that it's not 100% that the paperwork will be approved. Make sure you get in writing that you will get a refund of the purchase price if disapproved.
 
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There is a local shop that will accept the transfer.
I didn't say "that will accept the transfer", I said "that can get you one". The former is easy; the later may or may not be.

Even prior to May 19, 1986, many of the mainstream manufacturers had a policy of not inserting NFA items into civilian commerce, enforcing this policy by dealing either directly with LE/Govt agencies, or only supplying distributors who would well only to LE/Govt. This is why, although you see many HK full autos in the marketplace, they are generally pre-1986 conversions (or conversions using pre-86 registered autosears), not "factory" MP5s, HK51s, etc.

So, back on topic - has your dealer verified that he is able to get you the NFA version of the Sig rifle?
 
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You pay for the item then do the Form 4. Find a dealer that can get it for you and have them get it transferred to them as a dealer to dealer transfer (Form 3). Then go pay for it, do the Form 4 and wait, and wait, and wait some more.

Then when the Form 4 comes back approved just go and pick it up (and do the federal & state normal gun purchase paperwork).

So let's see if I have this right (and I have some questions)

1.) Dealer to Dealer Transfer (why would one dealer send it to the other when no $ has changed hands)?
2.) Pay for the firearm
3.) Fill out form 4
3.) Wait
4.) Pick up

What happens if the CLEO will not sign off on the form, it gets rejected by the ATF, etc...Then I'm out the $2500 for the rifle?
 
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I didn't say "that will accept the transfer", I said "that can get you one". The former is easy; the later may or may not be.

Even prior to May 19, 1986, many of the mainstream manufacturers had a policy of not inserting NFA items into civilian commerce, enforcing this policy by dealing either directly with LE/Govt agencies, or only supplying distributors who would well only to LE/Govt. This is why, although you see many HK full autos in the marketplace, they are generally pre-1986 conversions (or conversions using pre-86 registered autosears), not "factory" MP5s, HK51s, etc.

So, back on topic - has your dealer verified that he is able to get you the NFA version of the Sig rifle?

They said they will transfer in an NFA item. I assumed that meant 'yes', but maybe I should clarify?

Edit: Do you mean will Sig sell it to me? Yes. They are available to the civilian market.
 
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So let's see if I have this right (and I have some questions)

1.) Dealer to Dealer Transfer (why would one dealer send it to the other when no $ has changed hands)?
2.) Pay for the firearm
3.) Fill out form 4
3.) Wait
4.) Pick up

What happens if the CLEO will not sign off on the form, it gets rejected by the ATF, etc...Then I'm out the $2500 for the rifle?

Anyone?
 
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Has anyone who has had experience with the process ever paid for the firearm, then had something go wrong further down the road?

This would be my first NFA item and I'm a bit leery about shelling out that much cash when there is seemingly a relatively high chance something could go wrong.
 
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Has anyone who has had experience with the process ever paid for the firearm, then had something go wrong further down the road?

This would be my first NFA item and I'm a bit leery about shelling out that much cash when there is seemingly a relatively high chance something could go wrong.

Go do more research on NFA...

But yes if I sell you an NFA gun and for whatever reason you can't transfer it in that is your problem not mine (unless we have some other agreement). Easiest solution would probably be you just "re-sell" it, or transfer it to a friend/corp/trust etc until you get your situation fixed.

Now a couple SIG SBR "issues"...they are a great SBR (and one of the few "big name" factory SBR's out ther) but they are increadably OVER PRICED right now (how a $1200 pistol with a $100 stock becomes a $2200 SBR+tax I don't understand).

Now for the can of worms which has been discussed numerous times...show me somthing from a .GOV agency that says SBR's are exempt from the AW ban...I'll be waiting, but not holding my breath...[wink]
 
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Go do more research on NFA...

But yes if I sell you an NFA gun and for whatever reason you can't transfer it in that is your problem not mine (unless we have some other agreement). Easiest solution would probably be you just "re-sell" it, or transfer it to a friend/corp/trust etc until you get your situation fixed.

Now a couple SIG SBR "issues"...they are a great SBR (and one of the few "big name" factory SBR's out ther) but they are increadably OVER PRICED right now (how a $1200 pistol with a $100 stock becomes a $2200 SBR+tax I don't understand).

Now for the can of worms which has been discussed numerous times...show me somthing from a .GOV agency that says SBR's are exempt from the AW ban...I'll be waiting, but not holding my breath...[wink]

How can I re-sell it if things go south? Can I 'own' it without the tax stamp?

I realize it is overpriced, but I'd rather have something from a manufacturer than build my own. For several reasons. I'm willing to pay a premium for that.

As far as the AWB...I would err on the side of caution and presume it is NOT exempt from the AWB in MA. Sig sells an SBR version with a non-folding stock that I could pin, and I would have to have a break welded on. I would think that would address that issue.
 
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How can I re-sell it if things go south? Can I 'own' it without the tax stamp?

Seriously??? Post a WTS ad...

Why would you not be able to sell it??? (Understand I am not trying to sound rude/sarcastic I really don't understand what you think happens/doesn't happen when you purchase a product).

Once you pay for it you its yours, whether or not ATF/NFA will let it be transfered to your possession is another issue all together...

So lets say you buy your SBR from Mr. X in Florida(or wherever), you pay him his $$$ and it gets transfered to your SOT in MA (who's SBR do you think it is? its yours). So anyway lets say your dealer trys to transfer it to you but for whatever reason the transfer can not go through...So now your SBR is sitting at your SOT's...so like I said the easiest solution would probably be you just "re-sell" it, or transfer it to a friend/corp/trust etc until you get your situation fixed.

I realize it is overpriced, but I'd rather have something from a manufacturer than build my own. For several reasons. I'm willing to pay a premium for that.

As far as the AWB...I would err on the side of caution and presume it is NOT exempt from the AWB in MA. Sig sells an SBR version with a non-folding stock that I could pin, and I would have to have a break welded on. I would think that would address that issue.

And that is part of the quandery, why pay the premium for a "factory SBR" when you are going to have to bastardize it anyway. (If you could keep it factory then I could sort of [barely] understand the additional $1000 sig charges for the SBR, but not if you have to neuter it) Again if thats what you want, then thats what you want, fine but to do what you want your looking at spending around at least $2500 for something you might be able to sell off down the road at $1200 if you'r lucky...
 
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I think it depends if you can find a dealer that will work with you, then you have some leeway Some will permit you to put a deposit down (which is typically non-refundable). You will then go through the federal process and any required local processes. If approved, you can then go and pay for the remainder of the cost and actually pick up your SBR, suppressor, machine gun or whatever item you wanted.
 

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I think it depends if you can find a dealer that will work with you, then you have some leeway Some will permit you to put a deposit down (which is typically non-refundable). You will then go through the federal process and any required local processes. If approved, you can then go and pay for the remainder of the cost and actually pick up your SBR, suppressor, machine gun or whatever item you wanted.

If the item is im the SOT's inventory, that's one thing. If he is bringing it in just for you, you can be sure that the seller will want payment in full up front. The "tax stamp" is not something that you own. You pay the transfer tax and ATF sticks a stamp on the form. They write the serial of the item on it so that you can't use it to mail a birthday card. Jack.
 
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If the item is im the SOT's inventory, that's one thing. If he is bringing it in just for you, you can be sure that the seller will want payment in full up front. The "tax stamp" is not something that you own. You pay the transfer tax and ATF sticks a stamp on the form. They write the serial of the item on it so that you can't use it to mail a birthday card. Jack.

I agree. There seems to be pretty good inventory of items at Class 3 SOT dealers around here (within driving distance) without having to transfer items from one outside the state. Thus, if the sale isn't finalized, they can easily sell to someone else in the near future. So no harm, no foul for them. And they get to keep the deposit.
 

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Abomb60 is correct.Ask the seller if he'll refund your money if the chief refuses to sign.Jack is also correct.Plan on paying in full up front.I've always had to. If the chief doesn't sign the form 4,ATF will not approve the transfer.
 
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I agree. There seems to be pretty good inventory of items at Class 3 SOT dealers around here (within driving distance) without having to transfer items from one outside the state. Thus, if the sale isn't finalized, they can easily sell to someone else in the near future. So no harm, no foul for them. And they get to keep the deposit.

The only place I have been able to find one is in NH. It was a limited run from the factory of ~500 units. So they certainly don't grow on trees in MA.
 
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The only place I have been able to find one is in NH. It was a limited run from the factory of ~500 units. So they certainly don't grow on trees in MA.

I would imagine there are none in MA lying around at gun shops. Same is likely true of CA, NJ and maybe IL. But, I am not in MA - machine guns, grenade launchers, suppressors and almost everything else are legal here provided you follow federal, state and local law and/or register them with the suitable authority.

I am also unsure whether you would actually have to purchase and take posession of the SBR in MA versus getting it somewhere else, e.g, NH, bringing it into MA and then registering it.
 
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I am also unsure whether you would actually have to purchase and take posession of the SBR in MA versus getting it somewhere else, e.g, NH, bringing it into MA and then registering it.
Umm then maybe you shouldn't be answering NFA questions, since you don't know how NFA works in general (or in MA).
But, I am not in MA - machine guns, grenade launchers, suppressors and almost everything else are legal here
All that stuff is legal here (in MA) too (though supressors to a very limited group).

And to the OP, GLIDE, I'd suggest looking around for your SBR, last I knew the only place in NH you can get the factory SIG SBR is charging a lot more over the already inflated price, but who knows maybe he came down on prices...
 
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Umm then maybe you shouldn't be answering NFA questions, since you don't know how NFA works in general (or in MA).

Turn your hostility dial down a notch or two. You have no idea what I know or do not know. I see no good reason to educate you either after your comments. Many wonder why people outside of MA won't help the MA gun owners. This sort of treatment should stop you from wondering.
 
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But, I am not in MA - machine guns, grenade launchers, suppressors and almost everything else are legal here provided you follow federal, state and local law and/or register them with the suitable authority.
Suppressors are legal in MA only for LE/Govt and federally licensed manufacturers that pay the $500 SOT in addition to their regular FFL license fee. Or did you mean "become a federally licensed manufacturer" when you said "follow state, federal and local laws"?

If I'm wrong about this, and I don't think I am, please let me know so I can make an appointment to talk with my local chief about a Form 4 for a can.
 
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Turn your hostility dial down a notch or two. You have no idea what I know or do not know. I see no good reason to educate you either after your comments...

How am I hostile, you just told a guy he would have to:
...get(ting) it somewhere else, e.g, NH, bringing it into MA and then registering it.

(unless you are trying to say something else and chose poor wording) That statement seems to show a significant lack of understanding of NFA on many levels...but I guess you are correct I need education on this so:
How does a non resident "get" (take possession of) an NFA device out of state?
How is he supposed to "bring" a NFA device that isn't "registered" to him, back to MA w/ him?
How do you "register" an existing NFA device?
[crying]
 
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Suppressors are legal in MA only for LE/Govt and federally licensed manufacturers that pay the $500 SOT in addition to their regular FFL license fee. Or did you mean "become a federally licensed manufacturer" when you said "follow state, federal and local laws"?

If I'm wrong about this, and I don't think I am, please let me know so I can make an appointment to talk with my local chief about a Form 4 for a can.

I don't think you are wrong - I think the other poster is not in MA. In many other states, mere private citizens can possess those things subject to any local regs/ordinances.

In terms of NFA, where he went awry was not mentioning the transfer from a dealer in his state of residence, which I think is what has securityboy throwing his keyboard against his monitor (or maybe not?)

The few Class 3 dealers I know of in VA will help you out with most of this crap if you ask them (just be wary of their answers and talk to a firearms attorney with NFA experience when in doubt). I think most of those guys will advise you against individual transfer and push a trust on you. Whether that is really best or they are trying to get more money out of you is up to you to decide.
 
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...which I think is what has securityboy throwing his keyboard against his monitor (or maybe not?)
Off the subject a bit, but are you guys from "out of state" all that sensative? [wink] I mean BigLickShooter says I am hostile, and you have me throwing things...all I said was he (biglickshooter) shouldn't be answering NFA questions if he doesn't know how NFA works in general (or in MA), which he demonstraited by what he wrote...

Now perhaps you are correct and it was a problem with his articulation and he meant to say something like "because you will need to take possession of the SBR in MA you may need actually purchase it from an out of state party and have it transfered to a MA dealer who will then transfer it to you". But thats not what was said, so considering this is a reply to a question to someone just getting into NFA and making thier first NFA purchase I beleive his reply was "wrong" and at least misleading (suggesting that the OP could just go up to NH to get one, bring it into MA and then registering it[as one could do with a regular rifle]).
 
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Off the subject a bit, but are you guys from "out of state" all that sensative? [wink] I mean BigLickShooter says I am hostile, and you have me throwing things...all I said was he (biglickshooter) shouldn't be answering NFA questions if he doesn't know how NFA works in general (or in MA), which he demonstraited by what he wrote...

Now perhaps you are correct and it was a problem with his articulation and he meant to say something like "because you will need to take possession of the SBR in MA you may need actually purchase it from an out of state party and have it transfered to a MA dealer who will then transfer it to you". But thats not what was said, so considering this is a reply to a question to someone just getting into NFA and making thier first NFA purchase I beleive his reply at least misleading (suggesting that the OP could just go up to NH to get one, bring it into MA and then registering it[as one could do with a regular rifle]).

Not sure exactly what he or she was trying to say though I agree with you it is confusing.

In terms of the hostility, I don't think there is a per se blanket rule that everyone out of MA thinks everyone from MA is hostile. I lived and worked in MA for over a decade, and I would say at most 50% of you are hostile. There is hope for the rest of you though. [laugh]

At face value, the short and run on sentences makes it appear that you are writing quickly in anger or with great passion. This ain't english class, but some periods and commas do help out in reading and understanding your point.
 
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How am I hostile, you just told a guy he would have to:


(unless you are trying to say something else and chose poor wording) That statement seems to show a significant lack of understanding of NFA on many levels...but I guess you are correct I need education on this so:
How does a non resident "get" (take possession of) an NFA device out of state?
How is he supposed to "bring" a NFA device that isn't "registered" to him, back to MA w/ him?
How do you "register" an existing NFA device?
[crying]

After review, my post was in fact confusing. Thus, please ignore it and my comments and instead view this (now stuck in my head):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JnhtTXJOJxE
 
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