Question on TSA containers out of Logan

[Mike_]

I may be flying out of Logan soon and I would like to take my carry weapon with me. I have a TSA approved gunvault, and the vault will hold my carry weapon and one mag (if not inserted in pistol). Do I need to get a bigger case, or a separate container to carry my additional mag and a box (25 count) of my carry ammo?

Also does the mag I'm checking need to have a lock on it as well. I know it's a good idea, but I'm just curious on that part.

Thanks,
Mike

 

[Kevlar]

Per the TSA, ammunition can be transported in the same container.

Not sure what you mean by magazines needing to "have a lock on it"?

The key regulatory requirements to transporting firearms, firearm parts or ammunition in checked baggage are:

* You must declare all firearms to the airline during the ticket counter check-in process.
* The firearm must be unloaded.
* The firearm must be in a hard-sided container.
* The container must be locked. A locked container is defined as one that completely secures the firearm from access by anyone other than you. Cases that can be pulled open with little effort do not meet this criterion. The pictures provided here illustrate the difference between a properly packaged and an improperly packaged firearm.
* We recommend that you provide the key or combination to the security officer if he or she needs to open the container. You should remain in the area designated by the aircraft operator or TSA representative to take the key back after the container is cleared for transportation. If you are not present and the security officer must open the container, we or the airline will make a reasonable attempt to contact you. If we can't contact you, the container will not be placed on the plane. Federal regulations prohibit unlocked gun cases (or cases with broken locks) on aircraft.
* You must securely pack any ammunition in fiber (such as cardboard), wood or metal boxes or other packaging that is specifically designed to carry small amounts of ammunition.
* You can't use firearm magazines/clips for packing ammunition unless they completely and securely enclose the ammunition (e.g., by securely covering the exposed portions of the magazine or by securely placing the magazine in a pouch, holder, holster or lanyard).
* You may carry the ammunition in the same hard-sided case as the firearm, as long as you pack it as described above.
* You can't bring black powder or percussion caps used with black-powder type firearms in either your carry-on or checked baggage.

http://www.tsa.gov/travelers/airtravel/assistant/editorial_1666.shtm

That said, check with the particular airline for any additional restrictions/requirements.

 

[Jose]

Tonight I'll snap a pic of my pistol air travel case.

You don't need to have the magazine out of the pistol. The mags and the chamber just need to be empty. The ammo can go in the same case as the pistol, except when the airline says no can do. To my knowledge, Air Tran is the only one with that stupid rule. All others I have flown are A-OK.

And wtf would you put a lock on a magazine? How would you even do something like that?

Jeez......

 

[Kicker96FS]

Because Mags are evil?

 

[DukeInFlorida]

I read a pretty good detailed account of a fellow who uses his custom metal clothes type suitcase to also hold his gun/ammo, etc. BIG!

And, he says that he has NEVER had his luggage lost. They have a serious obligation to make sure that gun in it's case gets delivered to the other end.

The case must NOT indicate on the outside of it that it has a gun inside. However, they tag it as special cargo. Duh.

And, make sure that you have a permit/license to have a gun where ever you land, even on stop overs. That poor guy that just got busted on a layover in New Jersey (on his way to somewhere else where he had a license) is still reeling from the insanity of over zealous storm troopers.

Here's one mention of how to get your stuff safely to where ever you are going:
http://lifehacker.com/#!5448014/pack-a-gun-to-protect-valuables-from-airline-theft-or-loss

 

[Mike_]

Also does the mag I'm checking need to have a lock on it as well. I know it's a good idea, but I'm just curious on that part.

I meant "bag" instead of "mag" - I used a keyboard layout that puts the M and B next to each other ....


My ammo won't fit in the box I have even with one mag in the gun - do I need to go shopping?

Thanks,
Mike

 

[Mike_]

And, make sure that you have a permit/license to have a gun where ever you land, even on stop overs. That poor guy that just got busted on a layover in New Jersey (on his way to somewhere else where he had a license) is still reeling from the insanity of over zealous storm troopers.

I do plan on a direct flight to NC, but as long as I'm not touching my bag shouldn't FOPA protect me here - although I might be a bit worried if this was going through NY or CA (or MA if I didn't have an LTC).

 

[drgrant]

And, make sure that you have a permit/license to have a gun where ever you land, even on stop overs. That poor guy that just got busted on a layover in New Jersey (on his way to somewhere else where he had a license) is still reeling from the insanity of over zealous storm troopers.

Well, there is a way to prevent this. If there is a situation where you are stuck someplace like NJ or NY, you have to convince the airline to take custody of your luggage until you re-plane... As long as they are the only ones touching it, you're fine... and they're immune because of common carrier status they have.

The other option is getting your guns off the carousel, renting a car, and getting the hell out of dodge. Whatever you do. don't try to replane with the guns if you somehow or another ended up with them in your possession.

-Mike

 

[Kevlar]

I meant "bag" instead of "mag" - I used a keyboard layout that puts the M and B next to each other ....

That makes more sense. By law, only the case containing the firearm must be locked.

My ammo won't fit in the box I have even with one mag in the gun - do I need to go shopping?

As I understand it, the ammo does not need to be secured, but it must be declared to the airline and packed in accordance with TSA policies. Airline policy will also dictate the quantity of ammunition permitted.

I do plan on a direct flight to NC, but as long as I'm not touching my bag shouldn't FOPA protect me here...

Yes, if you do not take possession of your bag, the "uninterrupted journey" requirements of FOPA are satisfied.

 

[Jose]

And, make sure that you have a permit/license to have a gun where ever you land, even on stop overs. That poor guy that just got busted on a layover in New Jersey (on his way to somewhere else where he had a license) is still reeling from the insanity of over zealous storm troopers.

Do not listen to this insanity.

 

[Jose]

I do plan on a direct flight to NC, but as long as I'm not touching my bag shouldn't FOPA protect me here - although I might be a bit worried if this was going through NY or CA (or MA if I didn't have an LTC).

California does not have any licensing laws for mere possession of firearms.

You guys really need to get out/read more.

 

[Jose]

I meant "bag" instead of "mag" - I used a keyboard layout that puts the M and B next to each other ....


My ammo won't fit in the box I have even with one mag in the gun - do I need to go shopping?

Thanks,
Mike

Your ammo need not be in a locked box/container.

When I fly Air Tran, I just throw the two 20 round boxes in my toiletries kit. That satisfies their requirement that the ammo be in a case separate from the pistol.

Otherwise, I made space in the foam of the Pelican case to fit the two boxes one over the other.

 

[Mike_]

You guys really need to get out/read more.

That's what I'm trying to do

Thanks for the info everyone, it looks like I should be all set then.

 

[FSTC]

"And, he says that he has NEVER had his luggage lost. They have a serious obligation to make sure that gun in it's case gets delivered to the other end.

The case must NOT indicate on the outside of it that it has a gun inside. However, they tag it as special cargo. Duh."

I fly regularly out of Logan, I use a TSA approved case inside of my regular suitcase. I usually gave a few loaded spare mags and a spare box of ammo in the suitcase as well.

FYI If you need a compliant rifle or pistol case, Jetblue has them for sale at their ticket counter.

Delta, US Airways, and Jetblue DO NOT use any type of special codes on your luggage tags. If you have an obvious long gun case they will hold it in the baggage office. Otherwise a suitcase is a suitcase to them.

Some airports walk you to the TSA and they will check your case before you seal your luggage. Last 10 or so times out of Logan I signed the tag, put it in the pistol case, locked it and sealed the suitcase with a zip tie and off it went.

 

[vellnueve]

Your ammo need not be in a locked box/container.

When I fly Air Tran, I just throw the two 20 round boxes in my toiletries kit. That satisfies their requirement that the ammo be in a case separate from the pistol.

Otherwise, I made space in the foam of the Pelican case to fit the two boxes one over the other.

So do you have two separate checked bags? I'm flying AirTran next week and am trying to figure out if there's a way to get ammo without paying two checked bag fees. It'd be cheaper for me to buy a box at my destination and then expend the rounds at the local MCX range prior to flying out, than it would to check another bag just for ammo.

 

[KMaurer]

Well, there is a way to prevent this. If there is a situation where you are stuck someplace like NJ or NY, you have to convince the airline to take custody of your luggage until you re-plane... As long as they are the only ones touching it, you're fine... and they're immune because of common carrier status they have.

No convincing required. The airline already has custody of your luggage. All you need to do is to refuse to take it from them, leaving them with the legal responsibility to get it to you at destination to which it was originally checked. I went through that exact thing on a flight from Oakland to BOS that got stuck overnight in Phili due to bad weather. The airline said that we needed to take our bags and re-check them in the morning; I simply ignored them, since I had everything I'd need overnight in my carry-on.

Ken

 

[TheRoland]

TSA approved case

Why do people keep saying this? The TSA does not "approve" gun cases. I think some manufacturers are using this as a shorthand for "doesn't open randomly for no reason". This is confusing, because:

If you have a case with built-in locks that are "TSA approved" you MAY NOT use this case, as it allows basically anyone access to your firearm.

 

[FSTC]

If you have a case with built-in locks that are "TSA approved" you MAY NOT use this case, as it allows basically anyone access to your firearm.

A "TSA Approved" case has the following criteria: The container must be locked. A locked container is defined as one that completely secures the firearm from access by anyone other than you. Cases that can be pulled open with little effort do not meet this criterion.

For example: A hard sided case with a single locking point (regardless of the type of lock) will not meet the criteria.
A "TSA approved" case will have multiple locking points. The only concern is the case "secures" the firearm.

I have a Plano rifle case, this case has 4 latches and 4 locking points (I use keyed alike Master locks) If I only use 1 lock, the case can still be pried open and the case will not mee TSA criteria.
Now same case if I use all of the locking points the case is compliant.

Please note the difference between TSA approved case and TSA approved lock

Even TSA says don't use TSA approved locks on guns.

 

[SemiAutoSam]

Jose, I flew about 6 months ago or so and the lock on the magazine is a device to hold the rounds in securly if you so choose to fly with loaded magazines.

Just so the magazines arent in the pistol you are OK at least it was so at the time I flew United from Boston to San Francisco.

And as has been said previous in this thread do not use a TSA lock on your gun case.

As to the case from my experience its a Airline approved case not a TSA approved case.

Tonight I'll snap a pic of my pistol air travel case.

You don't need to have the magazine out of the pistol. The mags and the chamber just need to be empty. The ammo can go in the same case as the pistol, except when the airline says no can do. To my knowledge, Air Tran is the only one with that stupid rule. All others I have flown are A-OK.

And wtf would you put a lock on a magazine? How would you even do something like that?

Jeez......

 

[Jose]

So do you have two separate checked bags? I'm flying AirTran next week and am trying to figure out if there's a way to get ammo without paying two checked bag fees..

No. Pistol goes in locked case. Locked case goes in checked bag. Ammo goes in toiletries kit. Kit goes in the same checked bag. Ammo and pistol are technically not in the same container.

The gate agent in Ft Lauderdale bought it. If they had given me shit I would just waited until my bag got checked then left the box of ammo on the checkout counter in full view of everyone since it's no longer my responsibility and walked to my gate.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

It may be "insanity" as Jose says, but a curious phenomena common in NY and NJ (and not elsewhere) is to summon LEO to check the legality of any gun being checked. My friends in NY permits get carded by the airport PD on almost every flight out of an upstate NY airport. Some NY/NJ cops understand the law; some do not - and follow a simple protocol - "badge, state handgun permit, or arrest - no exceptions". I have never heard of the "permit check" at any airport outside NY and NJ (it's never happened to me in MA or RI).

I don't believe airlines do any special tracking of checked luggage with guns in them. I had my luggage with a J frame lost between Dallas and Logan. The airline baggage agent was concerned when I included the gun in the description in the lost luggage form, and made a big deal about noting the luggage had to be delivered to me by a driver with an LTC. The luggage was found and returned to me, intact, the next day. MSP at the airport instructed me to wait one day before filing a police report (which was not necessary).

I always attach my guns to the inside of my luggage with a steel cable - it makes it very hard for someone with temporary access to swipe the gun without taking the entire piece of luggage.

 

[Kevlar]

...The airline baggage agent was concerned when I included the gun in the description in the lost luggage form, and made a big deal about noting the luggage had to be delivered to me by a driver with an LTC.

Is that true? I would think that either common carrier status, and/or the fact the firearm is rendered "inoperable by any person other than the owner or other lawfully authorized user" would negate the need for the driver to be licensed.

 

[drgrant]

Is that true? I would think that either common carrier status, and/or the fact the firearm is rendered "inoperable by any person other than the owner or other lawfully authorized user" would negate the need for the driver to be licensed.

They're probably just being excessively careful. It's unclear to me if someone like a limo/taxi driver would fall under that status. (That's what they usually do with lost baggage, throw it on a limo and send it to your house).

-Mike

 

[GSG]

Is that true?

No.

In reference to the theoretical driver being charged for possessing the missing J frame, various caselaw states he'd have to knowingly possess it, and have both the ability & intention to excercise control over it for a correct 269-10(a) violation. Even if the ticket agent tells Mr. Driver "Hey there's a gun in that bag you're returning," that doesn't complete the legal circuit, because he wouldn't have the ability to control it; to fly with a gun, it has to be transported in such a way that only the owner has access. Lojko in particular reinforces the idea that a mobile container can be controlled as a whole (carried around, stuck in a van) without the firearm inside being "controlled" in the legal sense by anyone other than the owner with his key.

A driver with an LTC is protected in two ways. 1st, if the gun isn't locked up due to transport damage or a sloppy passenger check-in procedure, the driver is covered under MGL. 2nd, it removes any doubt about the legality from the cop on scene if the driver wrecks his airport shuttle on the highway, and saves the driver the $50,000 or so it would cost to get the SJC to agree with him.

 

[TheRoland]

It may be "insanity" as Jose says, but a curious phenomena common in NY and NJ (and not elsewhere) is to summon LEO to check the legality of any gun being checked. My friends in NY permits get carded by the airport PD on almost every flight out of an upstate NY airport. Some NY/NJ cops understand the law; some do not - and follow a simple protocol - "badge, state handgun permit, or arrest - no exceptions". I have never heard of the "permit check" at any airport outside NY and NJ (it's never happened to me in MA or RI).

I've come really close to flying with a checked handgun out of, lets say, White Plains. My flight got changed at the last minute, so I didn't. You're saying I would have stood a good chance of being arrested, FOPA be damned?

 

[Rob Boudrie]

I've come really close to flying with a checked handgun out of, lets say, White Plains. My flight got changed at the last minute, so I didn't. You're saying I would have stood a good chance of being arrested, FOPA be damned?

Unfortunately, yes. It's not a given, but it's always a risk in NY State.