Question on transferring a sbr

looser38 · Jan 20, 2023

Due to my lack of knowledge on this topic, I'm gonna sit this one out on the sidelines......

........ with some fresh popcorn

Jstick4 · Jan 20, 2023

PappyM3 said:
They are still beholden to the rosters. They are “Approved Firearms” rosters, not approved handgun/pistol rosters.

eFile form 1s were 14-21 days at absolute best in the fastest processing the ATF could manage. Form 4s can take a year. And that’s before the ATF told 40 million people to file for SBR stamps for their braces.

Thanks and sorry plowing and salting the last 32hrs slipped my mind of the 40million plus people that might try and make sbr. Maybe I’ll hold off lol. Thanks again

PappyM3 · Jan 20, 2023

AMV said:
if you are building SBR''s from receivers do you think you are even required t register in the first place?? show me that law, does not exist, so no need to lie about the barrel length in the first place

The law says you need to FA10 after “obtaining” a gun. It’s up to you if you think that includes manufacturing.

General Law - Part I, Title XX, Chapter 140, Section 128B

malegislature.gov

Attorneys I’ve heard (but not paid by me) have said that likely includes manufacturing.

Then again, the state just illegally published the FA-10 records. Seems like a break in trust there.

PappyM3 · Jan 20, 2023

Jstick4 said:
Thanks and sorry plowing and salting the last 32hrs slipped my mind of the 40million plus people that might try and make sbr. Maybe I’ll hold off lol. Thanks again

I mean, you’d probably be at the top of the queue, but even in good times Form 4s can take a year.

AMV · Jan 20, 2023

PappyM3 said:
The law says you need to FA10 after “obtaining” a gun. It’s up to you if you think that includes manufacturing.

General Law - Part I, Title XX, Chapter 140, Section 128B

malegislature.gov

Attorneys I’ve heard (but not paid by me) have said that likely includes manufacturing.

Then again, the state just illegally published the FA-10 records. Seems like a break in trust there.

I have first hand experience on the matter. There is no registry in MA, so forget about that part of the portal for now, only records of a transfer, so
who is the seller or donor

Jstick4 · Jan 20, 2023

AMV said:
I have first hand experience on the matter. There is no registry in MA, so forget about that part of the portal for now, only records of a transfer, so
who is the seller or donor

I would be the one receiving the sbr..

PappyM3 · Jan 20, 2023

AMV said:
I have first hand experience on the matter. There is no registry in MA, so forget about that part of the portal for now, only records of a transfer, so
who is the seller or donor

That’s fine if that’s your interpretation of “obtain from any source”

AMV · Jan 20, 2023

Jstick4 said:
I would be the one receiving the sbr..

you would be required to fill out a FA10 transfer seller to buyer

AMV · Jan 20, 2023

PappyM3 said:
That’s fine if that’s your interpretation of “obtain from any source”

not really my interpretation.

""shall within seven days after receiving such firearm, rifle, shotgun or machine gun, report, in writing, to the commissioner of the department of criminal justice information services the name and address of the seller or donor and the buyer or donee""

LuvDog · Jan 20, 2023

AMV said:
when you filled out the Fa 10 for your SBR's did you lie about the barrel length?

When you filled out the FA 10 for your SBR's did you lie and say it was a pistol?

AMV · Jan 20, 2023

LuvDog said:
When you filled out the FA 10 for your SBR's did you lie and say it was a pistol?

good point! but these are the instructions from the state of MA and MIRCS

SgtHal75 · Jan 20, 2023

AMV said:
if you are building SBR''s from receivers do you think you are even required t register in the first place?? show me that law, does not exist, so no need to lie about the barrel length in the first place

Huh? No fa10 if built off receivers…if one wants to follow the MA law he should fa10. The grey area is MA can’t say what it is once it is an SBR. As far as barrel length, it’s 16 inches. There’s no saying you can’t put a 16” upper on an SBR. Follow the AWB and the burden of proof is on the state if they ever want to say one way or another if it’s a pistol or a rifle. Once again, I’m talking form 1

71montess · Jan 20, 2023

Have the guy put a 16" upper on the nfa lower and transfer it that way. No law says you can't change barrels on an SBR. It's the lower that the ATF,cares about. When you get approved put the short barrel on it. Have your friend hold both half's.

SgtHal75 · Jan 20, 2023

71montess said:
Have the guy put a 16" upper on the nfa lower and transfer it that way. No law says you can't change barrels on an SBR. It's the lower that the ATF,cares about. When you get approved put the short barrel on it. Have your friend hold both half's.

When the ATF shows up at the door show them the Stamped lower with SB…..when the new AG’s goon squad shows up at the door show them your FA10 lower with 16 inch upper. Compliance!

AMV · Jan 20, 2023

SgtHal75 said:
Huh? No fa10 if built off receivers…if one wants to follow the MA law he should fa10. The grey area is MA can’t say what it is once it is an SBR. As far as barrel length, it’s 16 inches. There’s no saying you can’t put a 16” upper on an SBR. Follow the AWB and the burden of proof is on the state if they ever want to say one way or another if it’s a pistol or a rifle. Once again, I’m talking form 1

No MA law states YOU have to register something that YOU built from a receiver, that was not transferred to you to in state or purchased out of state. I beg you to show me the law

there are many ways around all of this debacle, But the OP was asking about a form 4 dealer transfer in the state of MA

Sure take barrel off transfer as a other and file a new form 1 with your info engraved

Jstick4 · Jan 20, 2023

It’s not AR sbr it’s a scorpion sbr. I’ll just reach out to a ffl for the correct anwser. Thanks for all
Of them tho

AMV · Jan 20, 2023

Jstick4 said:
It’s not AR sbr it’s a scorpion sbr. I’ll just reach out to a ffl for the correct anwser. Thanks for all
Of them tho

Scorpions are cool, I have one as a registered SBR

SgtHal75 · Jan 20, 2023

AMV said:
No MA law states YOU have to register something that YOU built from a receiver, that was not transferred to you to in state or purchased out of state I beg you to show me

there are many way around all of this debacle, But the OP was asking about a form 4 dealer transfer in the state of MA

Sure take barrel off transfer as a other and file a new form 1 with your info engraved

Correct. I was not referring to a transfer.

Is barrel length the only reason why you think an SBR is really a pistol in MA?

Reptile · Jan 20, 2023

Lots of innuendo and opaque posts.

Please help:

A friend sells me a AR15 lower. I put the parts in it.

I apply for and get a tax stamp for a SBR.

I buy the upper.

I put the upper on to make a firearm.

Now what???

AMV · Jan 20, 2023

SgtHal75 said:
Correct. I was not referring to a transfer.

Is barrel length the only reason why you think an SBR is really a pistol in MA?

Simply put, MIRCS requires it to be FA10 as a pistol, Pistols are required to meet the approved Firearms roster in order for an FFL to transfer them in state, NO SBR's are on that approved roster, that is the simplest way to regulate the sale of SBR's and shockwave shotguns (also Pistols) in the state of MA. similar to what they did with glocks

SgtHal75 · Jan 20, 2023

AMV said:
Simply put, MIRCS requires it to be FA10 as a pistol, Pistols are required to meet the approved Firearms roster in order for an FFL to transfer them in state, NO SBR's are on that approved roster that is the simplest way to regulate the sale of SBR's And shockwave shotguns (also Pistols) in the state of MA. Same as what they did with glocks

Yes. I agree but forget transfers, I’m talking about a build off of a stripped receiver. When somebody builds that for themselves and stamps it with the ATF, are you saying that SBR has to go into FA10 as a pistol?

Da_lucche · Jan 20, 2023

AMV said:
good point! but these are the instructions from the state of MA and MIRCS

I was mistakened. EOPS does give instructions to FA10 SBR lowers as pistols. You are correct. Which for me is a weird gray legality issue since AR pistols are an AWB issue here in MA....plus all the recent activity with pistol braces federally and the fact I do not have an AR pistol.

Both of my SBRed lowers are FA10ed as rifles (one was originally FA10ed while as a Title 1 rifle) and I'm not losing any sleep over it.

AMV · Jan 20, 2023

SgtHal75 said:
Yes. I agree but forget transfers, I’m talking about a build off of a stripped receiver. When somebody builds that for themselves and stamps it with the ATF, are you saying that SBR has to go into FA10 as a pistol?

I see no part in MA law that says you have to register a build from a receiver at all. NO one can find any either If you choose to register it, and contact MIRCS on how to do it on an SBR they will tell you to do it As a pistol, because rifles have a barrel length greater than 16""

Da_lucche · Jan 20, 2023

AMV said:
I see no part in MA law that says you have to register a build from a receiver at all. NO one can find any either If you choose to register it, and contact MIRCS on how to do it on an SBR they will tell you to do it As a pistol, because rifles have a barrel length greater than 16""

If this is true I wish I knew this before...I wouldn't have registered any of my stripped lowers builds lol

SgtHal75 · Jan 20, 2023

AMV said:
I see no part in MA law that says you have to register a build from a receiver at all. NO one can find any either If you choose to register it, and contact MIRCS on how to do it on an SBR they will tell you to do it As a pistol, because rifles have a barrel length greater than 16""

Not being a dick but are you sure about that? I just glanced it over. When you build anything in MA it has to be FA10’d within 7 days of it going bang. I believe it’s a fine for failure to FA10 but not having to do it all because it was built off of a receiver, I can’t find anything at all stating that….can you site any specifics on that? Just curious. I’ve FA10 all my builds and follow the AWB.

AMV · Jan 20, 2023

SgtHal75 said:
Not being a dick but are you sure about that? I just glanced it over. When you build anything in MA it has to be FA10’d within 7 days of it going bang. I believe it’s a fine for failure to FA10 but not having to do it all because it was built off of a receiver, I can’t find anything at all stating that….can you site any specifics on that? Just curious. I’ve FA10 all my builds and follow the AWB.

Show me where is says this? I am confident you did not find it in MGL

SgtHal75 · Jan 20, 2023

AMV said:
Show me where is says this? I am confident you did not find it in MGL

I will check further. This debate is always a good one

FalArAk · Jan 20, 2023

What I learned today on NES:

A Short Barreled Rifle is actually a Short Barreled Pistol in MA.

SBR=SBP

AMV · Jan 20, 2023

SgtHal75 said:
I will check further. This debate is always a good one

I will tell you this, In America, they don't create laws giving permission, only restricting. So it is assumed everything is legal unless there is a law stating otherwise. You will not find anything in MGL saying you do not have to register a gun you manufacture. I can say with 100% certainty there is no law saying you do.

Marty McFly · Jan 20, 2023

Ok I'm now an expert. Build a ton of sbrs and don't tell anyone. Got it

Question on transferring a sbr

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