Every situation is different alot of people forget that. But if it comes to the point where he/she will be taken out of the car then they should inform that they are carrying. but if you are carrying, and say you dont have an unrestricted, why would someone behave in such a way for an leo to ask them to step out of the car, wouldnt you want to avoid that?..aside from that, if someone informs me that they are carrying if and their ltc is in order and everything checks out there is no reason to get said panties in a bunch.
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Question for LEOs
- Thread starter waltherlover
- Start date
Every situation is different alot of people forget that. But if it comes to the point where he/she will be taken out of the car then they should inform that they are carrying. but if you are carrying, and say you dont have an unrestricted, why would someone behave in such a way for an leo to ask them to step out of the car, wouldnt you want to avoid that?..aside from that, if someone informs me that they are carrying if and their ltc is in order and everything checks out there is no reason to get said panties in a bunch.
I'm surprised when a LEO runs the plates of the vehicle it doesn't tell them who is on the registration along with a BIG asterisk saying they have a LARGE CAPACITY Pistol Permit. I would think this would be an automatic MA law.
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My understanding is that LEOs will get notification for your address, but not necessarily for your registration. If memory serves, I think that is because the system they use to look up plates isn't integrated with the (very limited) CHSB database. Maybe an LEO could provide more detail.
IIRC what a LEO posted on NES, it depends upon the system that the police department is using in their cruisers. One one of the systems, the fact that the registered owner has an LTC shows up on the first screen. On a different system, the officer would have to go to a different screen to find that information.
1: Eliminate cause for stop. IE - make sure all elements of m/v are operational, check equipment and paperwork.
2: Observe applicable traffic laws. IE - slow down speed, actually stop for red lights and stop signs.
3: At stop remain calm and truthfull.
4: Do not claim "Carrying" unless it becomes a material element. IE - prior to Arrest.
5: Officer issues Verbal Warning, Written Warning or Written Citation.
6: Do not put LTC or Firearms at risk. IE- have a nice day
2: Observe applicable traffic laws. IE - slow down speed, actually stop for red lights and stop signs.
3: At stop remain calm and truthfull.
4: Do not claim "Carrying" unless it becomes a material element. IE - prior to Arrest.
5: Officer issues Verbal Warning, Written Warning or Written Citation.
6: Do not put LTC or Firearms at risk. IE- have a nice day
Ok guys: I'm new on this forum but have been a LEO for four years now. Here's my take:
1. Keep your "trash" together (i.e. license, registration, vehicle equipment, etc)
2. DON'T DRIVE LIKE AN IDIOT!
3. If stopped, don't say anything about your CCW. I appreciate when someone tells me that they're carrying but if that person is OBVIOUSLY a good, honest, productive member of society then I won't even bother to ask. In my experience I have found that people that are up to no good are generally easy to spot and generally don't cough up info about the firearm in the car. Only a duck looks, acts, and quacks like a duck. If you have an LTC in MA... why would I think that you're up to no good?
And if you forgot about rule #1 as listed above and I end up towing your car (or worse), don't get all miffed when I remove your weapon from you, clear and secure it, and then give it back with mag removed after all is said and done. I GO HOME NO MATTER WHAT.
4. Be polite. I don't want to get dumped on for doing my job. While I don't speak for every LEO in MA, I can say I don't screw with people just to do it. I can say the same for the other LEO's that work my shift at my agency. Lessen the scope of interaction and the bad man in the blue monkey suit wearing the bat belt will go away quicker.
5. Many of us feel that people deserve the right to carry and defend themselves. Carry often, and carry smart. I may not have time to wait for back up and you might end up saving my a$$ on the side of the road some day.
Semper Fi gents... *off soapbox*
1. Keep your "trash" together (i.e. license, registration, vehicle equipment, etc)
2. DON'T DRIVE LIKE AN IDIOT!
3. If stopped, don't say anything about your CCW. I appreciate when someone tells me that they're carrying but if that person is OBVIOUSLY a good, honest, productive member of society then I won't even bother to ask. In my experience I have found that people that are up to no good are generally easy to spot and generally don't cough up info about the firearm in the car. Only a duck looks, acts, and quacks like a duck. If you have an LTC in MA... why would I think that you're up to no good?
And if you forgot about rule #1 as listed above and I end up towing your car (or worse), don't get all miffed when I remove your weapon from you, clear and secure it, and then give it back with mag removed after all is said and done. I GO HOME NO MATTER WHAT.
4. Be polite. I don't want to get dumped on for doing my job. While I don't speak for every LEO in MA, I can say I don't screw with people just to do it. I can say the same for the other LEO's that work my shift at my agency. Lessen the scope of interaction and the bad man in the blue monkey suit wearing the bat belt will go away quicker.
5. Many of us feel that people deserve the right to carry and defend themselves. Carry often, and carry smart. I may not have time to wait for back up and you might end up saving my a$$ on the side of the road some day.
Semper Fi gents... *off soapbox*
http://masscases.com/cases/app/47/47massappct168.html#back5
Not all licensed gun owners are law abiding.
@ GSG:
I hear what you're saying, but here's my caveat: The problem with MA is that the lawmakers ASSUME all gun owners are criminals. Devall's latest attempt to further restrict us with monthly purchasing limits is a prime example. I know that all gun owners are not law abiding... I've personally locked up a few. I also know that if someone lacks the mens rea to commit a firearm crime, they won't do it. Your example shows that there are criminals in all walks of life. Watson would have to have been flat lining to not understand that he was providing a firearm to someone who was about to commit a crime with said firearm thus becoming an acessory before the fact. I would wager that the vast overwhelming majority of licensed gun owners are law abiding, respectfully reserving all possibilities for a few who have gone astray.
I understood the OP to be wondering as to what to do when stopped regarding a LTC. My point of view as a LEO stands as I had stated. While by no means am I a perfect cop or always right in every situation, I have developed the skill of reading people. I'm always on guard on a stop but I remember that not everyone is a criminal and/or going to try to kill me. As I said before: if you tell me, great. Am I going to ask without at least a suspicion that a gun may be in the car? Probably not.
I hear what you're saying, but here's my caveat: The problem with MA is that the lawmakers ASSUME all gun owners are criminals. Devall's latest attempt to further restrict us with monthly purchasing limits is a prime example. I know that all gun owners are not law abiding... I've personally locked up a few. I also know that if someone lacks the mens rea to commit a firearm crime, they won't do it. Your example shows that there are criminals in all walks of life. Watson would have to have been flat lining to not understand that he was providing a firearm to someone who was about to commit a crime with said firearm thus becoming an acessory before the fact. I would wager that the vast overwhelming majority of licensed gun owners are law abiding, respectfully reserving all possibilities for a few who have gone astray.
I understood the OP to be wondering as to what to do when stopped regarding a LTC. My point of view as a LEO stands as I had stated. While by no means am I a perfect cop or always right in every situation, I have developed the skill of reading people. I'm always on guard on a stop but I remember that not everyone is a criminal and/or going to try to kill me. As I said before: if you tell me, great. Am I going to ask without at least a suspicion that a gun may be in the car? Probably not.
J
Jose
Kinda hard for Joe CCW to "save your a$$ by the side of the road someday" when you gave him back an unloaded pistol, dontcha think?
Shit like "I GO HOME NO MATTER WHAT" makes it hard to want to stick around to help when the bullets start flying.
After all, I too want to go home no matter what.
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Another point - if you carry, do not have ANY of your LTCs ANYWHERE in the wallet where any portion will be exposed when taking out your driver's license. There is no need to broadcast this info to everyone you have to show ID to.
A competitor had a bit of a hassle in upstate NY because a state trooper noticed the corner of his Connecticut carry permit when he produced his license at a speeding traffic stop. The officer did not know about the non-resident competitive exemption for handguns, delayed the driver and his passenger a while, and eventually decided that the fact that the passenger in the car was a cop made it OK. (I guess it would have been too easy to just look up 265.20(a)(13a) in the NY law book in the police car). If the driver had been totally discreet, he would never have been asked about guns in the car, and the stop would have been boringly routine. Even in "must notify" states (NY is not one), no notification is required for an unloaded gun in a locked case in the trunk.
It is often best to get lost in a crowd of one.
A competitor had a bit of a hassle in upstate NY because a state trooper noticed the corner of his Connecticut carry permit when he produced his license at a speeding traffic stop. The officer did not know about the non-resident competitive exemption for handguns, delayed the driver and his passenger a while, and eventually decided that the fact that the passenger in the car was a cop made it OK. (I guess it would have been too easy to just look up 265.20(a)(13a) in the NY law book in the police car). If the driver had been totally discreet, he would never have been asked about guns in the car, and the stop would have been boringly routine. Even in "must notify" states (NY is not one), no notification is required for an unloaded gun in a locked case in the trunk.
It is often best to get lost in a crowd of one.
J
Jose
This kind of paranoia is warranted in your part of the world. Not in mine or in most of the rest of the country.
Rob, it also pays off to print out pertinent parts of appropriate laws and have them with you when you travel. Do NOT expect any LEO to know all the gun laws and exemptions out there.
Not every LEO has the entire law library at his fingertips in the cruisers. When I worked for the PD there was only one PO that carried a MGLs book with him and it was strictly Ch. 89 & 90 material, nothing else.
Not every LEO has the entire law library at his fingertips in the cruisers. When I worked for the PD there was only one PO that carried a MGLs book with him and it was strictly Ch. 89 & 90 material, nothing else.
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Not really. I carry my LTC and my driver's license together. Most of the time I have to look at them to figure out which is which. On more than a few occasions the LEO has pointed to the driver's license and said 'it's that one, the other one is your gun permit'. That was it. I've done the same thing with my Real Estate license(it's also a plastic card) and they never asked to see any houses either.
J
Jose
I understand what you are saying but that is not the reason Rob is all hot and bothered about having the two in close proximity. Evidently he's paranoid that a cop may know he has an LTC and the world will go to shit. Like I said, maybe that is warranted where you all live. But not where I live and not in most of this country.
Cops here don't really give a crap if you are carrying so long as it is legal for you to do so. Since here notification that one is carrying (not that one has an LTC) is required when interacting officially with police, it is no big deal. The three times I've had to deal with cops while carrying, two of them didn't care at all and only one cared enough to want to see my CHL. I didn't get proned out, cuffed, made to step out of the car for a search, or anything else.
I've deliberately shown my Ohio CHL to a TSA drone at the Denver airport to see what happened. Nothing except a stupid question: you aren't carrying a handgun, are you?
The name of the forum is "NORTHEAST" Shooters, and most people here are from the northeast. We are all aware that there are parts of the country that respects our rights a bit more.
Even in the Northeast, though, Jose is right..... in places like ME, NH, VT, you generally don't have to worry about that crap.
I agree with Rob though that if you are in a commie state, you should not "show your hand" if you can possibly avoid it. Being "the gray man" is best in the commie states.
-Mike
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An individual I know was traveling in NY, perfectly legally, He was removed form his car, frisked, and told the only reason he was not being arrested was because he had a police officer as his passenger and thus that individual could be considered in possession of the guns. The officer made it perfectly clear this person had "bad information", there "was no competition exemption", and that he was not going to look at any bogus paper the driver had. (FYI, the State Police later confirmed the exemption is real, and does exist). I know he had a copy of the relevant law and the match letter required by said law since I was the one who provided them.
None of this BS would have happened if the CT carry permit were not in a location where it could be seen. It's not just police - I don't want to tell the person next to me in the supermarket, or behind me in line at Home Depot, that I may be carrying. Call it paranoid if you want, but it's still good advice for this part of the country.
In the case to which I refer, a NY cop used an out of state carry permit as the basis to make an inquiry about guns in the car, and received a truthful answer (unloaded, in a locked case in the trunk). If the driver had not qualified under a somewhat obscure exemption, it would indeed have been an unlawful act.
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J
Jose
I would enjoy being plaintiff in a civil rights violation case for false arrest.
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Here in the Northeast, a "false arrest" remains part of one's permanent record and is an obstacle that must be dealt with every time one is renewing an LTC - which can be particularly problematic since two of the New England states are discretionary issue, and a couple of others may reject for items like arrest records.
That is the general attitude I've seen out here as well. It's the "edge cases" where untrained officers can make mistakes (for example, having a gun locked in the trunk of your car on school property is not a crime in MA if you have an LTC - but I'd wager less than 10% of police officers understand that)
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