Question for LEOs

[waltherlover]

Let say, hypothetically, that someone had a MA Class A LTC with a "work only" restriction. Let say you pull over said individual and they identify that they are carrying, and give you their gun and LTC. Do you care about the restriction, and what happens next?

Thanks.

 

[stinx]

Ddepends on the scenerio. Technically its an adminstrative violation of conditions of the LTC. I believe if reported to the issuing authority they could take action against your LTC. I would not risk loosing my permit to play the game. All it would take is a phone call to your employer to verify your work hours. I would just obide by my permit restictions and hire a lawyer to help me get an un restricted permit if i was in a city or town that was restrictive in what they issue.

 

[waltherlover]

And if the person was self employed in an industry that has no regular hours?

 

[stinx]

Still would have to prove at the time of the encounter they were working. It may never come to this or it might. It would depned on the scenerio and the Officer. Get an unrestricted license and this becomes a dead issue. Hopefully you are in a green town or city.

 

[WPDC13]

why would you even say anything at all? Although we appreciate the heads up, if its a simple traffic violation why bring the extra headache? But I agree with the previous posts, its a risky game and could get your LTC revoked if someone get a hair across their a** over it.

 

[Talon3]

Theres 2 ways for this stop to go down,

1. Officer calls or notifies issuing authority, LTC is suspended / revoked. A court appearance maybe necessary, a fine maybe required, a lawyer maybe needed. Once this happens no LTC may be issued by any other town in Mass until reinstated by the agency that took negative action on it. As well as all future applications in state or, to any other state will also need to disclose the suspension / revocation.
2. Officer doesn't call, nothing happens.

None of this can be predicted. Ever.
There are so many variables in play that its always at best a 50/50 raffle with your LTC, guns, ammo, pepper spray, wallet, and reputation at risk.

I guess to quote Dirty Harry: The question is do you feel lucky?

 

[Misbehaven]

Just keep your mouth shut and it wont be an issue. But honestly, If you have an LTC with restrictions, then why take a gamble and risk losing it?? IMHO i think it's best just to do the right thing and abide by the restrictions to avoid an ass ache later on.

 

[Admin]

If you have an LTC with restrictions, then why take a gamble and risk losing it?? IMHO i think it's best just to do the right thing and abide by the restrictions to avoid an ass ache later on.

+1

Also you could try moving to a town that respects your rights. Why pay taxes to commies?

 

[GSG]

Also you could try moving to a state that respects your rights. Why pay taxes to commies?

Fixed it for ya.

 

[TheCamel]

Let say, hypothetically, that someone had a MA Class A LTC with a "work only" restriction. Let say you pull over said individual and they identify that they are carrying, and give you their gun and LTC. Do you care about the restriction, and what happens next?

Thanks.

First, thank them for their honesty and for thinking of the safety of themselves, myself, and the public. Second, ask if the person is going to/from work. If not, notify the OIC (since I'm only a reserve LEO). May end with the license being suspended revoked.

It's hard enough to get an LTC in MA, especially in certain places. Don't risk it.

 

[SigMJS1287]

Traffic stops are dangerous enough as it is, dont bring it up until absolutley nessesary we have enough going through our minds. But if it comes to that point DO NOT go reaching for the gun, instruct the officer that you have one on you and tell them the place where it is on your body. whether you are going to work or not keep it locked up in the trunk if you have the damn restriction. then like stated above move to a town that respects the 2nd.

 

[richc]

Are you a business owner? If si I believe you can also apply in the town or city where your business is nlocated. That would be helpful in the case where your place of business is more "green".

 

[waltherlover]

I do have a side business, but I run it from home - so that kinda blows that theory.

 

[Jose]

Traffic stops are dangerous enough as it is, dont bring it up until absolutley nessesary we have enough going through our minds. But if it comes to that point DO NOT go reaching for the gun, instruct the officer that you have one on you and tell them the place where it is on your body. whether you are going to work or not keep it locked up in the trunk if you have the damn restriction. then like stated above move to a town that respects the 2nd.

Your head would explode if you lived in Ohio or one of the several states that require those carrying concealed handguns to declare so when stopped by police.

Surprisingly the two or three times I've dealt with cops on the road over the last six years, they never got their panties in a bunch when I told them I was carrying.

 

[M1911]

Surprisingly the two or three times I've dealt with cops on the road over the last six years, they never got their panties in a bunch when I told them I was carrying.

Yea, but you don't live in MA.

According to an ICE agent that I know, a MA state trooper got his panties in a bunch when he stopped an off-duty ICE agent carrying on his badge, and another MA state trooper did the same when he stopped an off-duty FBI agent carrying on his badge.

Toto, I've a feeling we're not in [strike]Kansas[/strike] the free world any more.

 

[mpd61]

As usual people start talking about other juridictions, or "I know a trooper who".

In any traffic stop where you are the operator, DON'T mention anything about a firearm. ONLY do so if you are asked in the rare instance to exit the vehicle. Otherwise nobody cares.

 

[Jose]

As usual people start talking about other juridictions,

People DO travel. You do know that, right?

 

[right_to_bear_arms]

Simple rule of thumb. If it's a state trooper don't tell him unless you absolutely have to and when you do be prepared for him to freak out. If it's a city/town officer don't tell him unless you absolutely have to and when you do be prepared for him to not give a sh*t so long as you are properly licensed.

 

[kingfisher]

why would you even say anything at all? Although we appreciate the heads up, if its a simple traffic violation why bring the extra headache?

Traffic stops are dangerous enough as it is, dont bring it up until absolutley nessesary we have enough going through our minds.

In any traffic stop where you are the operator, DON'T mention anything about a firearm. ONLY do so if you are asked in the rare instance to exit the vehicle. Otherwise nobody cares.

Concealed means concealed. Got it.

It's nice to hear from people who are actually "on the job," and I appreciate your posts. Thanks for doing the very difficult job that you do.

According to an ICE agent that I know, a MA state trooper got his panties in a bunch when he stopped an off-duty ICE agent carrying on his badge, and another MA state trooper did the same when he stopped an off-duty FBI agent carrying on his badge.

The arrogance is astounding.

I wonder if it's because of the interagency aspect, and would a licensed civilian be treated better or worse by these troopers?

First, thank them for their honesty and for thinking of the safety of themselves, myself, and the public. Second, ask if the person is going to/from work. If not, notify the OIC (since I'm only a reserve LEO). May end with the license being suspended revoked.

Don't you think it's a bit disingenuous to thank someone for being safe and then proceed to jam them up in such a way that they could permanently lose the right to own a firearm, or is it that you feel you have no leeway to do otherwise?

 

[M1911]

The arrogance is astounding.

Arrogance, ignorance, testosterone poisoning, inter-agency jealousy, or all of the above?

I wonder if it's because of the interagency aspect, and would a licensed civilian be treated better or worse by these troopers?

According to the ICE agent, the trooper claimed that they could not carry on the badge while off duty without an LTC. Of course, the Feds consider a federal agent to be "on duty" 24x7x365. In both instances, after an hour on the side of the road and conferring with a superior officer, the Trooper let them go.

While having an LTC would circumvent that particular reasoning for abuse, I suspect that those particular troopers might find some other creative reason. Note, I am not suggesting that this is MSP policy or even common. Just an example of the idiocy that sometimes happens.

 

[OfficerObie59]

According to the ICE agent, the trooper claimed that they could not carry on the badge while off duty without an LTC. Of course, the Feds consider a federal agent to be "on duty" 24x7x365. In both instances, after an hour on the side of the road and conferring with a superior officer, the Trooper let them go.

If that happened, it was a waste of everyone's time. I'd hazard to guess there's more to the story that what you've been told. LEOSA should have made this a mute point.

 

[M1911]

If that happened, it was a waste of everyone's time. I'd hazard to guess there's more to the story that what you've been told. LEOSA should have made this a mute point.

OfficerObie: I was told this story by an ICE agent that I've known for over 10 years. He's been an ICE (nee, INS) agent in MA for 20+ years, and during that time he's worked on operations with officers from many different local agencies and MA State Troopers.

The incidents occurred during normal traffic stops. At the beginning of the traffic stops, the agents identified themselves to the trooper, showing the trooper their badge and creds. It went downhill from there.

I have no reason to doubt the accuracy of his description of the incidents.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Turf battles between MSP and Feds and munis has been legion for years.

I believe every word of this story and I've seen some of the animosity up close and personal over the years.

It's sad, but it is sorta like gun owners . . . we can't all get along and agree to support each other either.

 

[delgrifith]

Simple rule of thumb. If it's a state trooper don't tell him unless you absolutely have to and when you do be prepared for him to freak out. If it's a city/town officer don't tell him unless you absolutely have to and when you do be prepared for him to not give a sh*t so long as you are properly licensed.

Oh yeah all those Troopers will "freak out", but not to worry, the "local Officer" will be cool, calm, and the second coming of John Wayne......give me a break.

 

[M1911]

Oh yeah all those Troopers will "freak out", but not to worry, the "local Officer" will be cool, calm, and the second coming of John Wayne......give me a break.

I think the chance of over-reaction is there whether it is a trooper or a muni. I don't think that most would over-react, but it has happened in the past.

 

[delgrifith]

I think the chance of over-reaction is there whether it is a trooper or a muni. I don't think that most would over-react, but it has happened in the past.

True, the over-reaction is a reflection of an individual, not dictated by the patch on their sleeve.

 

[In God We Trust]

The only time I have ever asked someone if they were armed was when I was pulling them out of the car in anticipation of arrest. There is no need to inform the government that you are armed if they don't ask. As the others have stated, play by the rules so that some dickhead with a badge can't ruin your life just because it makes him feel good. If I saw that someone had an LTC, I would not even bother to ask questions about work hours or anything else. If they can be trusted to carry during work hours, do they suddenly become "unsuitable" after? It's a bullshit rule and I have always treated it with the contempt it deserves.

By the way, NEVER put yourself in a position where you are on the side of the road at the mercy of a cop. Keep it close to the speed limit and stop where you are supposed to and this will never be an issue for you. I have been a cop for 8 years and I obey all the traffic laws so that I will never need to ask for any professional curtosey.

 

[M1911]

True, the over-reaction is a reflection of an individual, not dictated by the patch on their sleeve.

Exactly. I never meant to imply that such an over-reaction was department policy.

 

[M1911]

The only time I have ever asked someone if they were armed was when I was pulling them out of the car in anticipation of arrest. There is no need to inform the government that you are armed if they don't ask.

As a motorist, that is my practice. Unless I'm in a state where the law requires notification, I won't notify the officer that I'm carrying unless he orders me out of my car. At that point, he's likely going to frisk me prior to arrest, so I'll notify him before I step out of the car. Fortunately, I've never been ordered out of the car.

As the others have stated, play by the rules so that some dickhead with a badge can't ruin your life just because it makes him feel good.

Agreed. If you don't do drive like a jerk, you probably won't be stopped. And if you don't get stopped, you won't be the victim of a stop gone overboard.

If I saw that someone had an LTC, I would not even bother to ask questions about work hours or anything else. If they can be trusted to carry during work hours, do they suddenly become "unsuitable" after? It's a bullshit rule and I have always treated it with the contempt it deserves.

I appreciate your common sense.

 

[drgrant]

Agreed. If you don't do drive like a jerk, you probably won't be stopped. And if you don't get stopped, you won't be the victim of a stop gone overboard.

Well, that, and keep your "papers" and vehicle (eg, lights, muffler, etc. ) in order. There are so many paperwork violations (License, Registration, Insurance... ) they can nail someone on just by you driving by. Destroy as much "PC for a stop" as you can, and the total interactions will go way down.

Using cruise control in the "speed trap rhetoric" towns (if you drive enough, you know what these are... ) helps too. Nail that crap right on the speed limit.

-Mike