Question about NFA

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So I'm currently in the process of setting up my trust (through Quicken Willmaker) and I've come into a few questions before I start filling out the form 4.

First off, I'm interesting in purchasing this upper:

http://i151.photobucket.com/albums/s156/shamusmcoi/104.jpg

Obviously, it's not MA compliant since it has a flash suppressor on it.Can I still have it shipped here to my dealer and have a pinned muzzle break installed while I'm getting it engraved with my trust name on it prior to taking delivery? It looks like it also has a bayonet lug which is a no no so I'll be changing the gas block as well. Or does that no flash suppressor no bayonet lug not apply to NFA weapons?

Basically what I'm asking, what will it take for me to get that receiver shipping here to my dealer and form 4 it. I'd love to be able to leave that upper alone and not have to remove the evilness.

I saw this in the FAQ:

The AWB does effect SBRs in MA argument: The MA AWB, just like the Federal one, effects "semiautomatic rifles" without any regard to barrel length and does effect SBRs. The MA AWB is at 140 MGL 121. The section of the Federal AWB that applies to rifles is 18 USC 921(a)(30)(B).

Quote:
(B) a semiautomatic rifle that has an ability to accept a detachable magazine and has at least 2 of -
(i) a folding or telescoping stock;
(ii) a pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon;
(iii) a bayonet mount;
(iv) a flash suppressor or threaded barrel designed to accommodate a flash suppressor; and
(v) a grenade launcher;
The AWB does not effect SBRs in MA argument: The problem with Massachusetts law is that it's poorly written. The MA AWB states, in part "“Assault weapon”, shall have the same meaning as a semiautomatic assault weapon as defined in the federal Public Safety and Recreational Firearms Use Protection Act, 18 U.S.C. section 921(a)(30) as appearing in such section on September 13, 1994". If you go read all of 18 USC 921(a)(30), it does define assault weapons, but does not define the term "rifle". Why does that matter? Because the MA law specifically references ONLY that part of the federal law, and not the federal definition of a "rifle". Therefore, we must use the Massachusetts definition of a rifle, from 140 MGL 121. The definition in Massachusetts law states that a rifle must have a barrel equal to or greater than 16 inches in length. Because your SBR, by definition, has a barrel less then 16 inches, it can't be a rifle under Massachusetts law, and can't be an assault weapon using the specific section of the Federal ban referred to by Massachusetts law.

and quite frankly I'm totally lost. Judging by what that says I can have a 10" SBR with all the goodies and it doesn't qualify as an Assault Weapon under the MA GL that bans all the evil goodies.

Thanks for the help in advanced, I've never gone through this process and I don't want to screw it up because it could cost weeks of extra waiting.
 
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Can I still have it shipped here to my dealer and have a pinned muzzle break installed while I'm getting it engraved with my trust name on it prior to taking delivery? It looks like it also has a bayonet lug which is a no no so I'll be changing the gas block as well. Or does that no flash suppressor no bayonet lug not apply to NFA weapons?
Sure you can. FFL's can be in possession of AWB items since well, they're FFL's and exempt under the MGL's.

Basically what I'm asking, what will it take for me to get that receiver shipping here to my dealer and form 4 it. I'd love to be able to leave that upper alone and not have to remove the evilness.
Are you building the SBR or is your dealer building it and transferring it to you? If you're building it you need to register the lower receiver with the ATF using a Form 1. Once you have a lower registered as an SBR you can put the short upper on it.

and quite frankly I'm totally lost. Judging by what that says I can have a 10" SBR with all the goodies and it doesn't qualify as an Assault Weapon under the MA GL that bans all the evil goodies.
A SBR would still qualify under the federal & MA AWB for the following reason:

Chapter 140 Section 121 makes the following definitions:

“Firearm”, a pistol, revolver or other weapon of any description, loaded or unloaded, from which a shot or bullet can be discharged and of which the length of the barrel or barrels is less than 16 inches or 18 inches in the case of a shotgun as originally manufactured.

“Rifle”, a weapon having a rifled bore with a barrel length equal to or greater than 16 inches and capable of discharging a shot or bullet for each pull of the trigger.

“Weapon”, any rifle, shotgun or firearm.

“Assault weapon”, shall have the same meaning as a semiautomatic assault weapon as defined in the federal Public Safety and Recreational Firearms Use Protection Act, 18 U.S.C. section 921(a)(30) as appearing in such section on September 13, 1994, and shall include, but not be limited to, any of the weapons, or copies or duplicates of the weapons, of any caliber, known as: <insert list of evil here>

Now while a rifle does indeed have a barrel of 16" or greater anything less than 16" would be defined by MGL as a "firearm". Because of this a SBR under the MGL's is a firearm and a weapon is a firearm so an SBR can be an assault weapon by definition. Yes it's confusing and probably meant to be so.

So the bottom line is you need a pre-ban lower receiver to build an SBR with the evil features you want.
 
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thanks for the reply abomb. What you just said completely contradicts the write up that EasyD did that is stickied to the top of this NFA forum. The MA AWB only affects "semiautomatic rifles" and you just said that the upper receiver I'm question is not a "rifle", but a "firearm".

If you go read all of 18 USC 921(a)(30), it does define assault weapons, but does not define the term "rifle". Why does that matter? Because the MA law specifically references ONLY that part of the federal law, and not the federal definition of a "rifle". Therefore, we must use the Massachusetts definition of a rifle, from 140 MGL 121. The definition in Massachusetts law states that a rifle must have a barrel equal to or greater than 16 inches in length. Because your SBR, by definition, has a barrel less then 16 inches, it can't be a rifle under Massachusetts law, and can't be an assault weapon using the specific section of the Federal ban referred to by Massachusetts law.

If that's the case, then the lower receiver I have already registered to me as a rifle, that is a post ban, should be fine to put the "firearm" upper on and then register the whole thing using a form 4, correct?

Does that make sense?
 
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thanks for the reply abomb. What you just said completely contradicts the write up that EasyD did that is stickied to the top of this NFA forum. The MA AWB only affects "semiautomatic rifles" and you just said that the upper receiver I'm question is not a "rifle", but a "firearm".
The MA AWB does not only affect semi-auto rifles. It applies to Semi-Auto Assault Weapons. The key word here is weapon. That's why Tec-9's and AR pistols and semi-auto shotguns all fall under the ban as well.

If that's the case, then the lower receiver I have already registered to me as a rifle, that is a post ban, should be fine to put the "firearm" upper on and then register the whole thing using a form 4, correct?

Does that make sense?
Massachusetts doesn't really care about your SBR specifically. That's why there is no state form for specific registration of an SBR and it's dealt with only Federally. In Mass it's either a rifle, shotgun, machine gun or firearm.

Take any AR lower you own, pay the $200 tax and put a short upper on it. Just know that you may be in violation of the MA AWB if that upper has evil features and the lower is not pre-ban, SBR or not.
 
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Massachusetts doesn't really care about your SBR specifically. That's why there is no state form for specific registration of an SBR and it's dealt with only Federally. In Mass it's either a rifle, shotgun, machine gun or firearm.

Take any AR lower you own, pay the $200 tax and put a short upper on it. Just know that you may be in violation of the MA AWB if that upper has evil features and the lower is not pre-ban, SBR or not.

Now THAT makes sense. I don't mind making it MA compliant, as that was what I was inquiring about in my original post. I can just order a compensator and new gas block to resolve the bayo lug and flash suppressor issue. That would probably be my best bet since I don't care about those two features anyway.

I guess the next question would be, obviously my dealer wouldn't be able to release the upper to me if it wasn't MA compliant, or would they? I need to be able to get it to a gun smith and have the flash suppressor removed, muzzle break installed and pinned. Any ideas?
 
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I guess the next question would be, obviously my dealer wouldn't be able to release the upper to me if it wasn't MA compliant, or would they? I need to be able to get it to a gun smith and have the flash suppressor removed, muzzle break installed and pinned. Any ideas?

Sure they can. The upper receiver and its associated parts are all firearm parts by Mass & federal law. The only place you could potentially get in trouble is if you had a post-ban lower and a pre-ban upper. I suppose they could attempt to charge you with some sort of constructive possession.

Now what i'd do here is:
1. Ship the lower off to get the NFA engraving done.
2. While the lower is gone order and receive the pre-ban upper.
3. Take the pre-ban upper to a gunsmith to have the gas block replaced and a compensator pinned on.
4. Get the lower back and put it all together.

That way you never have the lower & pre-ban evil upper in your possession at the same time [smile]
 
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Wow that makes sense, why can't you write MA laws? I'm going to get the trust notarized this weekend and then I will drop the lower off to be engraved. Upper won't be here till next week or the week after.
 
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The MA law refers ONLY to 18 USC 921(a)(30). That section doesn't define the term "rifle". It defines a bunch of assault weapons, but unlike the complete Federal statute when it was in power, there is NO reference in 18 USC 921(a)(30) to the definitions of "rifle", "shotgun" or "pistol". Other parts of 18 USC 921 contain those definitions, but the MA law doesn't refer to those sections.

For the purpose of 140 MGL 121, how can you possibly connect a SBR in MA to the Federal definition of a rifle?

--EasyD
 

abundigas

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"So the bottom line is you need a pre-ban lower receiver to build an SBR with the evil features you want."

The SBR is Manufactured after the ATFE approves the Form 1. So does it matter if you use a Pre-Ban Lower or not, the Manufacture Date per the Form 1 will be after the approval of the Form 1..
 
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The MA law refers ONLY to 18 USC 921(a)(30). That section doesn't define the term "rifle". It defines a bunch of assault weapons, but unlike the complete Federal statute when it was in power, there is NO reference in 18 USC 921(a)(30) to the definitions of "rifle", "shotgun" or "pistol". Other parts of 18 USC 921 contain those definitions, but the MA law doesn't refer to those sections.

For the purpose of 140 MGL 121, how can you possibly connect a SBR in MA to the Federal definition of a rifle?

--EasyD

It has nothing to do with the federal definition of a rifle. My only point was that the MGL's refer to assault weapon not assault rifle (see bold below) and according to Mass law a SBR would fall under the states definition of a weapon.

We can all argue over this all day long and not get anywhere [smile]. The law is vague and probably is so by design. The only way to get a more definitive answer is to get some case law on this and I am not volunteering for that. Just be safe and use a pre-ban lower.

“Assault weapon”, shall have the same meaning as a semiautomatic assault weapon as defined in the federal Public Safety and Recreational Firearms Use Protection Act, 18 U.S.C. section 921(a)(30) as appearing in such section on September 13, 1994, and shall include, but not be limited to, any of the weapons, or copies or duplicates of the weapons, of any caliber, known as: <insert list of evil here>
 
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"So the bottom line is you need a pre-ban lower receiver to build an SBR with the evil features you want."

The SBR is Manufactured after the ATFE approves the Form 1. So does it matter if you use a Pre-Ban Lower or not, the Manufacture Date per the Form 1 will be after the approval of the Form 1..

Technically by federal definitions you are correct. However the state does not have a definition or a process for registering a SBR. Therefore I would doubt that the state could argue that a receiver made before the AWB is somehow remade (and making it illegible for being grandfathered and exempt from the AWB) simply by registering it as a NFA item. The MGL's define it as the same thing (weapon) before and after the NFA SBR paperwork is approved.
 
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I just got a brilliant idea, I'm shipping the upper to my house, taking it to the gunsmith and having a new gas block and muzzle break put on it. That should solve all my problems. I have no issue taking those 2 evil features off as the bayo lug is completely useless on an SBR and the flash suppressor I don't care. After I do that, it will be post ban compliant upper and I'll be good to go with mounting it on my post ban RRA lower. After I get my tax stamp back of course.

As I'm looking over the form 1, I can list .22LR, 9mm, 5.56/.223 as calibers and that will allow me to change upper receivers and keep the same registered lower correct? Provided as long as I put something like 7"-12" for barrel length.
 
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I always list out all the calibers I may ever use on the form. I've been told you only need to list the caliber engraved on the lower but whatever ... doesn't hurt. Also I always list the shortest overall length of the AR possible; so a collapsed stock (or shorty entry) with a 7.5" barrel & A1 suppressor on it.

Just my $0.02 :)
 
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I always list out all the calibers I may ever use on the form. I've been told you only need to list the caliber engraved on the lower but whatever ... doesn't hurt. Also I always list the shortest overall length of the AR possible; so a collapsed stock (or shorty entry) with a 7.5" barrel & A1 suppressor on it.

Just my $0.02 :)

Thanks for the tip.
 

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Good stuff you guys have put up. I was also told that if you wanted to be safe, because of Mass. Law, you should use a preban lower. Quess that was right. Now I will build one SBR from a preban colt and one from a new Stag lower, but without the 6 pos stock, break instead of supr. and no lug. Thanks guys, good reading
 
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In all honesty it doesn't matter if you use a preban. On an SBR what is there that you really would want that is preban? Bayonet lug on an SBR? I don't think so. I certainly don't plan on spearing someone with a barrel that is 7.5." 6 position stock? Use an entry length. Want a flash suppressor? Use a PWS FSC556. In the end you can save 500-600 by not using a preban. Not to mention that investment on a preban is totally lost soon as you engrave it.
 

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I once had a transfer for a pen gun to me bounce till I provided a copy of the Mass "green card". I suspect that was an issue with one particular examiner. Since then, I have supplied the green card for any and all NFA transfers. Anyone else ever had this issue come up? Jack.
 
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