Question about flying with my firearm

[phillip]

I am flying to Florida for vacation. I posses a MA. LTC ALP and a non resident FL. concealed firearm licence. The issue that concerns me is that I am departing from and returning to TF Green airport in Warwick, RI. Is it illegal for me to transport my pistol across state line for the purpose of taking it on vacation with me? If not in what manner should I transport it to the airport. Will there be any hassle on the return flight seeing I do not posses a RI. firearm permit. Any help on this subject will be appreciated.

Thanks,
Phil

 

[Rob Boudrie]

Scrivener is admitted to the RI bar so he may be able to help.

I have flown with guns through TF Green many times, and was never asked about a RI permit.

 

[bpm990d]

FOPA http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firearm_Owners_Protection_Act should cover you, but there was a case in NJ where the Port Authority arrested a guy that was going through and got delayed and missed the flight. The Airline put him up overnight but something happened.

You can read about it here.

http://www.anjrpc.org/fopalawsuit.htm

I would stay out of NJ no matter what. They are DICKS down there.

B

 

[Len-2A Training]

RI is not NJ.

Just make sure that NOTHING causes you to deplane in NY or NJ and you'll be fine.

 

[Scrivener]

You are legal in both the origin and destination of your trip. So long as the gun is secured per requirements in your checked luggage and processed properly at TF Green, FOPA applies.

Have a nice trip.

 

[highlander]

years ago I flew out of Logan I had a rifle and handgun in a lockable hardcase had minor problems,primarily because I wanted extra insurance on my guns.
Only complaint they put a big orange sticker on my case saying "FIREARMS". Looked at the kid at the counter and asked "Why don't you put on a sign that says steal me?'
I don't think they put that sticker on the cases anymore for that reason

 

[Scrivener]

years ago I flew out of Logan I had a rifle and handgun in a lockable hardcase had minor problems,primarily because I wanted extra insurance on my guns.
Only complaint they put a big orange sticker on my case saying "FIREARMS". Looked at the kid at the counter and asked "Why don't you put on a sign that says steal me?'
I don't think they put that sticker on the cases anymore for that reason

CORRECT. If the clerk DOES put that sticker on the outside, he/she has violated federal law. Moreover, YOU must keep the key at all times, the petulant demands and tantrums of TSA agents notwithstanding. If one of them wants to look inside, YOU unlock and relock the case; not the agent.

 

[bpm990d]

I use to fly with firearms a lot, and I use to get the "you have to open up the case and prove that it is unloaded" from the check in people that were a little too curious for their own good. Of course that is exactly what I did not want to do in Logan.

If they ask to see inside or ask you to prove that it is unloaded, ask them why you are signing the "Unloaded Firearm" tag, and then ask them if they have had the training to know that it is unloaded. If TSA asked I would comply though.

The reason that I pointed out the NJ case, was it is good to be aware of the types of shenanigans that some jurisdictions play. I agree with LenS and would be surprised if you had any problems at TF Green.

B

 

[rscalzo]

The problem in Newark Airport was something to the effect that the passenger missed a flight and found himself in possession of the handgun outside of his checked luggage. When that was found out, all the trouble started. I never did hear the outcome of it.

 

[KMaurer]

From what I hear, NJ itself is pretty much adhering to to FOPA these days. That wasn't always the cast, but their AG wrote a letter explaining the facts of life to the state police and others who had been hassling out-of-staters. The problem with Newark is that they're run by the NY/NJ Port Authority, which has been the only blatant offender against FOPA other than Albany, NY. That may change sometime soon, now that the Association of New Jersey Rifle & Pistol Clubs has filed a $3M suit for civil rights violations against the Port Authority and an individual officer after their arrest of what turned out to be the perfect plaintiff for this kind of suit.

Ken

 

[M1911]

after their arrest of what turned out to be the perfect plaintiff for this kind of suit.

Wasn't that plaintiff himself a police officer or retired officer?

 

[bpm990d]

The problem with Newark is that they're run by the NY/NJ Port Authority, which has been the only blatant offender against FOPA other than Albany, NY.

Albany NY huh? I use to go there a couple of times a year to shoot. What was the gist of the problem there? Were they shaking people down at traffic stops or in hotels while they were transient?

B

 

[KMaurer]

Albany NY huh? I use to go there a couple of times a year to shoot. What was the gist of the problem there? Were they shaking people down at traffic stops or in hotels while they were transient?

B

You might have missed it, but there is an airport there. Same BS as at JFK/LGA/EWR. Declare your legally possessed firearms in compliance with federal regulations and get busted. After a day or two you get released, but not your guns.

Ken

 

[bpm990d]

You might have missed it, but there is an airport there. Same BS as at JFK/LGA/EWR. Declare your legally possessed firearms in compliance with federal regulations and get busted. After a day or two you get released, but not your guns.

Ken

Yikes! I'm glad I drove. I use to go there once or twice a year to shoot, and never had a problem, but maybe it was because I was in stealth mode, and never drew any attention to myself.

B

 

[drgrant]

You might have missed it, but there is an airport there. Same BS as at JFK/LGA/EWR. Declare your legally possessed firearms in compliance with federal regulations and get busted. After a day or two you get released, but not your guns.

Ken

Basically all of NY an NJ are "do not pass go, do not collect your guns, go
directly to jail" as far as the airports are concerned.

IMO, anyone that gets diverted into NJ or NY, and is traveling with
firearms, instead of getting back on a plane should immediately rent a car, throw their stuff in the car, and drive back home. It's far cheaper than dealing with the highly corrupt so called "justice" systems in either of those
states.

MA might also be similar, at least in the case of those going through Logan
airport without an LTC. A friend of mine from NH was told that he
couldn't get on a plane at logan and check his gun, despite the fact
that he's just "passing through" per FOPA. FOPA is frequently ignored
by the commie states that require licenses for mere posession. I do
believe there is a letter from the US AG's office that clarifies it a
bit, but who knows how far that piece of paper will not get
you. The JBTs in anti states typically don't care what you have to
say... with them, it's no license = guilty .


-Mike

 

[bpm990d]

I do believe there is a letter from the US AG's office that clarifies it a bit, but who knows how far that piece of paper will not get
you.

It might hold more water in the civil action if you can show that you had a copy of the document from the U.S. Attorney Generals office and presented it to them when they were harassing you. If you can find a link on the web, I'd love to have it.

B

 

[rscalzo]

The letter from the NJ AG's office came out about four year ago. Here is the text of that letter:

All firearms transported into the State of New Jersey:
Shall be carried unloaded and contained in a closed and fastened case, gunbox, securely tied package, or locked in the trunk of the automobile in which it is being transported, and in the course of travel, shall include only such deviations as are reasonably necessary under the circumstances.

The firearm should not be directly accessible from the passenger compartment of the vehicle. If the vehicle does not have a compartment separate from the passenger compartment, the firearm and ammunition must be in a locked container other than the vehicle's glove compartment or console.

For additional exemptions refer to Chapter 39, namely 2C:39-g.

All firearms transported through the State of New Jersey:
The following guidelines are provided in order to assist law enforcement officers in applying New Jersey’s firearms laws to persons who are transporting firearms through the State of New Jersey.

New Jersey laws governing firearms permits, purchaser identification cards, registration and licenses do not apply to a person who is transporting the firearm through this State if that person is transporting the firearm in a manner permitted by federal law, 18 U.S.C.A. 926A.

This federal law permitting interstate transportation of a firearm applies only if all of the following requirements are met:

A. The person’s possession of the firearm was lawful in the state in which the journey began;

B. The person’s possession of the firearm will be lawful in the state in which the journey will end;

C. The person is transporting the firearm for lawful purpose

D. The firearm is unloaded

E. The firearm is not directly accessible from the passenger compartment of the vehicle

F. The ammunition is not directly accessible from the passenger compartment of the vehicle

G. If the vehicle does not have a compartment separate from the passenger compartment, the firearm and ammunition must be in a locked container other than the vehicle’s glove compartment or console;

H.The person is not

1. a convicted felon
2. a fugitive from justice an addict or unlawful user of drugs, or
3. an illegal alien

I The person has not

1. been adjudicated to be a mental defective
2. been committed to a mental institution
3. been dishonorably discharged from the armed forces, or
4.renounced his United States Citizenship

A person who is transporting a firearm though the State of New Jersey in the manner permitted by person’s possession 18 U.S.C.A. 926A, see Section II above, need not give notice.

Procedures for Investigation of Conduct Involving the Possession or Transportation of Firearms

A. An officer who reasonably suspects that a person is transporting a firearm in violation of New Jersey law should make reasonable inquiries in order to confirm or dispel that suspicion.

B. In a case where circumstances reasonably indicate that the person’s possession and transportation of the firearms my be permitted by 18 U.S.C.A. 926A, the officer should make reasonable inquiries in order to determine whether the person’s possession is permitted by that federal law.

C. If reasonable inquiries lead an officer to conclude that the person’s possession is lawful under either New Jersey law or 18 U.S.C.A. 926A, as described above in Section II, the officer should promptly allow the person to proceed.

D. Whenever an officer has probable cause to believe that a person’s possession of a firearm is in violation of New Jersey law and not permitted by 18 U.S.C.A. 926A, as described above in Section II, then the officer should make an arrest.


The drive from Newark Airport to Allentown is about an hour. It probably took longer to fly.

 

[Scrivener]

I'm only relaying what a friend of mine told me, after he called the
state police @ logan about it. Obviously -not- the best source of
information, but if the guys that do LE there are saying "you will be
arrested" then that's not a good sign. IMO.

Or one could simply print out a copy of the FOPA and the TSA or airline rules for such transport and have them in the luggage.

When Barney Fife or Jackass Jackboot declare you a criminal, ask them if they can read.

Not that I'd want to be confrontational with those abusing their authority and my rights..........

 

[phillip]

Thanks for all the info!! I am flying direct from Warwick, RI. to Ft. Myers, FL.

 

[M1911]

MA might also be similar, at least in the case of those going through Logan airport without an LTC.

I do have an LTC. But on the several occasions that I've flown out of Logan, no one ever asked to see it after I declared the firearm in my checked luggage.

 

[drgrant]

I do have an LTC. But on the several occasions that I've flown out of Logan, no one ever asked to see it after I declared the firearm in my checked luggage.

I'm only relaying what a friend of mine told me, after he called the
state police @ logan about it. Obviously -not- the best source of
information, but if the guys that do LE there are saying "you will be
arrested" then that's not a good sign. IMO. Others mileage may
vary, but my advice to anyone coming up to the northeast with
guns would still be to avoid logian like a bad habit and use MHT
instead.


-Mike