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Question 10 on LTC application...

D

Disgorge

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"Have you ever appeared in any court as a defendant for any criminal offense (excluding non-criminal traffic offenses)?"

I have a dui over 20 years ago which was continued without a finding. It doesn't show up anywhere on my driving record.
Do I answer this yes or no?
 
Yes. The PD has extensive records and it will probably show up. If it does and you answered no you are in a bad situation.
 
I would see a lawyer before handing in your LTC application.
 
The LTC application is a truth test. A 20 year old is far less likely to cause the chief to find you unsuitable than a missing DUI.

I don't think your driving record goes back more than ten years. You can be pretty sure that the court records do.
 
Everything is now going to show up on your BOP. Everything except something from maybe the 50's or earlier is now digitized. Omit a CWOF and you could have a problem because the coppers are going to see it. Now the question is always is what is the impact? To some its a big deal, to others it means you are tainted. Some liken it to "guilty but got away with it" Yeah, I know it is standard for 1st time DUI.

To me it is like the difference between an Honorable Discharge in the military and a General Discharge Under Honorable Conditions. Both have virtually the same VA benefits (except for education so I'm told) but "under honorable conditions" isn't quite the same as honorable.

Personally I don't think you will have any problems with your renewal nor should you because under the law you are not guilty of anything and suitability especially under the new laws might be harder to justify. There are plenty of people with unrestricted LTCs with CWOFs but it's the way the System zings you and like genital warts is something that pops up now and then to remind you who The Man is.

Do I harbor social prejudice towards people that I know have CWOFs? Objectively, I probably do, I know it's not right but to me there is an odious unresolved taint about it. Other states handle it differently and totally expunge these things, but it's different here.
 
Disgorge said:
Thanks for the info. This is a renewal and I'm pretty sure I said yes 5 years ago...just wanted to make sure.
Click to expand...


The ambiguity in you statement is the exact reason I keep a copy of all the applications I submit. Of course, I don't have a CWOF, but being consistent and knowing what you previously answered is a good thing.
 
Other states handle it differently and totally expunge these things, but it's different here.
Click to expand...
The expungement process in some other states would give the applicant the specific right to answer NO to question 10 and have it be considered the "legal truth". That being said, it would be very expensive for someone who relied on this to educate the police department, and the courts, as to this concept.
Of course, I don't have a CWOF, but being consistent and knowing what you previously answered is a good thing.
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If you always tell the absolute truth, you don't need as good a memory.
 
noxin said:
Memory fades over time and you may not completely recall the facts required to answer absolutely truthfully.
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If I had a CWOF I'd damn well remember it and if it been received in the last 30 years it would show up on the BOP. Chances are it was answered yes first time around. This shouldn't even be a topic for discussion and what Rob Boudrie says is true: keep a copy for your records.
 
mark056 said:
If I had a CWOF I'd damn well remember it and if it been received in the last 30 years it would show up on the BOP. Chances are it was answered yes first time around. This shouldn't even be a topic for discussion and what Rob Boudrie says is true: keep a copy for your records.
Click to expand...

ANY time you have a disposition in court, other than possibly a civil traffic offense, you need to keep a copy of the disposition. Computerized records have improved in recent years, however, there can still be cases where a disposition is coded incorrectly, or the PD had problems determining exactly what the disposition was. Having a court certified copy of the record showing it was a CWOF and not a conviction can be very handy.

The most interesting case I heard of was someone turned down for a MA LTC because of an out of state bail forfeiture. The MA police department thought this meant "jumped bail", however, what it meant was "charges dropped in return for the defendant agreeing the court could keep the bail". It took a rather decent attorney to get it straightened out. Contemporaneous court records from the actual case might have saved that applicant some legal fees.
 
Filled out the application honestly and accurately. One last question. ..town a gave me unrestricted. Can town b deny me or restrict me on renewal?
I've moved.
 
Last edited:
Disgorge said:
Filled out the application honestly and accurately. One last question. ..town a gave me unrestricted. Can town b deny me or restrict me on renewal?
I've moved.
Click to expand...
Absolutely.

It doesn't matter in Green towns. Red towns will often renew without restrictions if that is what you already have. Go to Brookline, Lowell or Watertown and you will almost get a restricted renewal unless you have juice.
 
Rob Boudrie said:
The expungement process in some other states would give the applicant the specific right to answer NO to question 10 and have it be considered the "legal truth". That being said, it would be very expensive for someone who relied on this to educate the police department, and the courts, as to this concept.

If you always tell the absolute truth, you don't need as good a memory.
Click to expand...

I disagree with that interpretation.

Let's use the Connecticut Accelerated Rehabilitation (AR) program as an example. AR is a pretrial diversion available to some defendants charged with criminal offenses/motor vehicle violations in Connecticut; if the defendant has no conviction record/ has not previously used AR (with certain exceptions), is accused of a minor offense (no crimes resulting in death, no A felonies, no B felonies with 1 exception, and a laundry list of other exclusions). The defendant does not admit guilt (many enter an NG plea, some enter no plea). Immediately upon application for AR, the record is sealed. Upon AR being granted, bail (if any) is terminated, Upon successful completion of a period of pretrial probation, the charges against the defendant are dismissed. Under Connecticut law in the event of a non-conviction (through dismissal, 13 month nolle period, NG verdict, etc...) it is as though the arrest never happened and the individual can make that claim under oath.

However, for the purposes of that question, an individual who used AR to take care of a Connecticut charge would presumably still have to answer in the affirmative. He still appeared in criminal court, as a defendant. (which is the essence of the information that they are trying to discern). Considering that the initial arrest itself could still show up on an arrest history, even though the court record was supposed to have been destroyed (within 20 days of non-conviction or the expiration of the nolle period).
 
Rob Boudrie said:
ANY time you have a disposition in court, other than possibly a civil traffic offense, you need to keep a copy of the disposition. Computerized records have improved in recent years, however, there can still be cases where a disposition is coded incorrectly, or the PD had problems determining exactly what the disposition was. Having a court certified copy of the record showing it was a CWOF and not a conviction can be very handy.

The most interesting case I heard of was someone turned down for a MA LTC because of an out of state bail forfeiture. The MA police department thought this meant "jumped bail", however, what it meant was "charges dropped in return for the defendant agreeing the court could keep the bail". It took a rather decent attorney to get it straightened out. Contemporaneous court records from the actual case might have saved that applicant some legal fees.
Click to expand...

What state was the criminal case from?

(That's a very odd way of recording a non-conviction. Typically bond forfeiture usually does mean that the defendant failed to appear and part or all of the surety was forfeited to the court. In Connecticut, bond forfeitures on certain offenses, such as MV or DEEP, can carry some of the pains of conviction)
 
mikelawtown said:
Same here and never mentioned it and after like 10 yrs when I want to renew for a 3 time he wasn't happy that I never put it down, and I knew him well.
Click to expand...

Same here, a piece of shit traffic bump, over 25 years ago, never came up until last renewal...im guessing they are digging deeper to disqualify people, has nothing to do with safety
 
M1911 said:
So, "we're not going to charge you if you pay us enough". Nice. [thinking]
Click to expand...

Sit in on the court cases over in Framingham. The wayland, Natick and Framingham district court hearings. 95% of them are CWOF or some pre trial probation, probation, pay court costs, etc. It's all a racket to get money except the Rape, murder, etc. cases.

Anyone who thinks the courts are a mess, check out district court and you'll realize you were minimizing it.
 

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