Q & A with Comm2A

Joined
May 17, 2008
Messages
16,975
Likes
2,820
Feedback: 32 / 0 / 0
Everything you always wanted to know (but were afraid to ask) about litigating 2nd Amendment rights in the Commonwealth.

So, with the lull in the action as we wait for a decision in Fletcher and Hightower while prepping for our next case (yes, we are prepping for our next case and more than a few will like it [grin]). I figured I would post up an opportunity to get to know more about what Comm2A is all about. Ask a question and Brent, Rob or myself will attempt to answer it. Here are a few that I figure more than a few folks are curious about. More importantly, we will be turning this into a FAQ on our website. We actually rely on crowd sourcing more than most would imagine.

How many people are affiliated with Comm2A?
5 Board members. 3 of whom have executive duties. There are a handful of trusted volunteers that have helped us over the last year. Sara Vail with our graphics is a notable one. Others wish to remain anonymous for various reasons and we respect that.

How much time do you spend on Comm2A related activities?
Between the three of us about 40-50 hours a week. Rob does the books, Brent does outreach and management. I do intake and legal research, managing the lawyer relationships and shepherding criminal cases. All three of us split the duties of civil case management with individual cases belonging to one or more of us. Fletcher was Brent's case for instance.

Do you have titles?
No. But if you pushed us, Brent would be executive director, Rob would be educational director and treasurer while I would be the legal affairs director. But I also co-man the twitter and Facebook duty with Brent and Rob turns his industry contacts into actionable support so you can see we really are a team operation.

Do you all take salary's?
No, we do not. We are purely volunteer now and for the foreseeable future. As we mature as an organization this may change, but it won't happen soon.

How many cases are you working on?
5 criminal cases are on our radar, one is Stan Sokolowski, three others are §131L violations and one is a 4th Amendment case in appeals. More will come as we become more well known amongst the legal community.

As for civil cases, we have the two you know about (Fletcher and Hightower), two that got aborted in late stages of development because of various reasons (one was in a state other than MA and we had the complaint drafted!) and an infinite number in development. However, of the ones in development, there are about 3-4 that could be filed within the next year.

How long does it take to get a case from plaintiff to filing a complaint?
A LONG time. It took the fletcher case 2 years to get filed. From the point of having funding and plaintiffs, it still took 6 months. The legal process is slow. We hope to be able to move faster as we mature as an organization but the reality is, the delays are not all our doing.

Why don't you take x case today?
Because of any number of reasons. Typically the reasons range from lack of plaintiffs, lack of funds, preexisting cases here and elsewhere and lack of good case law needed to develop better case law here. We will take cases in the order of what case law provides us, not necessarily the order which the folks here are most effected. The latter approach works for lobbyists, not litigators. It's frustrating but we are playing a strategic game and the way to win is to win incrementally building on previous wins.

What do you mean, preexisting cases here and elsewhere?
Example: Hightower is holding us up from moving on any number of licensing issues. This is because Hightower deals with discretionary licensing. Once that part is dealt with, the variants of problems we deal with daily can be dealt with. Until then, if we were to file a case against x town for licensing BS, it would get held up pending the outcome in Hightower. So why bother filing it... Another example is the EOPSS list. Calguns is litigating the very same list and requirements in CA. We don't need to reinvent the wheel. We need to improve on the wheel by making it stronger, more flexible and longer lasting. So at some point we will file a case against the list leveraging what they are doing there as seed. We will improve on their case and hopefully we will either force a circuit split or compel SCOTUS to hear our case.

Do you plan on lobbying?
NO! That is GOAL's job and they do a good job of it. MA needs litigators and lobbyists. By the necessities of our tax free charters, one can't do what the other does. It is a very symbiotic relationship. We respect each other's jobs and give each other the space needed to accomplish those jobs.

What is the status of your §501(c)(3)?
Good question. Brent is working regularly with the IRS to get this finalized. They are trying to make sure we aren't scamming the system and we get that. But as a result, it is taking a little while to get it finalized.

If a person comes to you for help how much can they expect to pay?
If we take their civil case? Nothing really. Maybe a few bucks for parking their car at the courthouse, but we cover the costs of the lawyer and court fees.

On the criminal side it varies based on need, strategic value, etc. It could be zero all the way to all of it. We always help with case law and legal research and making sure their attorney has access to other talented attorneys in the field.

Do you have members?
No, we are donation driven. We made the decision given that we expected to be fully volunteer to not have membership in order to allow us to focus on our core mission and to not have "members" desiring newsletters and other member benefits which would pull us away from our core mission.


Post up your questions and we would be happy to answer them if we can.
 
Last edited:
ok, i'll bite and hope this doesn't sound stupid. if a person comes to you for help how much can they expect to pay?

If we take their civil case? Nothing really. Maybe a few bucks for parking their car at the courthouse, but we cover the costs of the lawyer and court fees.

On the criminal side it varies based on need, strategic value, etc. It could be zero all the way to all of it. We always help with case law and legal research and making sure their attorney has access to other talented attorneys in the field.
 
No questions but a big thanks for your efforts. I'll keep donating to the cause whenever my finances allow.
 
I am currently not a member, but this post has inspired me to pay up. First thing I'll do when I get home after work. Thanks for the hard work.
 
I am currently not a member, but this post has inspired me to pay up. First thing I'll do when I get home after work. Thanks for the hard work.

This brings up another question:

Do you have members?
No, we are donation driven. We made the decision given that we expected to be fully volunteer to not have membership in order to allow us to focus on our core mission and to not have "members" desiring newsletters and other member benefits which would pull us away from our core mission.

We take donations so thank you for your donation this afternoon.
 
This brings up another question:

Do you have members?
No, we are donation driven. We made the decision given that we expected to be fully volunteer to not have membership in order to allow us to focus on our core mission and to not have "members" desiring newsletters and other member benefits which would pull us away from our core mission.

We take donations so thank you for your donation this afternoon.

In that case: nevermind! I was only joining for a cool membership card!

Just kidding of course! [smile]
 
Thank you Brent, Tom, and Rob (and Derek, Donna, and contributors) for all you do. You guys are definitely an irreplaceable resource for us oppressed here in MA and I am definitely glad to know you guys.
 
The prohibition of mail/internet order of ammo/components to lawfully licensed individuals in MA is a widespread thing. As far as I can understand, there is no law actually preventing this from happening. Apparently an old attorney general sent some threatening ultimatums to the majors and now no one wants to ship to us. Is there any talk of a solution to this problem? Clearly we can't force a company to sell anything to anyone. Perhaps some sort of legal protection or case showing the illegitimacy of the threats could open interstate commerce for MA gunners. Is this the sort of thing COMM2A might run with?
 
Is this the sort of thing COMM2A might run with?

Hell yeah. It was one of the first things we looked at. We thought we could deal with it early on but ran into a few issues.

One of the problems:

As far as I can understand, there is no law actually preventing this from happening. Apparently an old attorney general sent some threatening ultimatums to the majors and now no one wants to ship to us.

You need a live controversy with which to go into court. The last time someone got bullied was in the early to mid ought oughts. It's a three year civil statute of limitations. Heard of any sellers getting sued/charged lately? We haven't either.

Is there any talk of a solution to this problem? Clearly we can't force a company to sell anything to anyone. Perhaps some sort of legal protection or case showing the illegitimacy of the threats could open interstate commerce for MA gunners.

We know what we need to do and we have begun doing it. But as you point out, we can't force the ammo companies to take the risk. But we are not sitting on the sidelines on this issue. Quite the contrary but I won't go into more detail than that.
 
Excellent as always. Thank you.

Sent from the Hyundai of the droids, the Samsung Replenish, using Tapatalk.
 
Hell yeah. It was one of the first things we looked at. We thought we could deal with it early on but ran into a few issues.

One of the problems:



You need a live controversy with which to go into court. The last time someone got bullied was in the early to mid ought oughts. It's a three year civil statute of limitations. Heard of any sellers getting sued/charged lately? We haven't either.



We know what we need to do and we have begun doing it. But as you point out, we can't force the ammo companies to take the risk. But we are not sitting on the sidelines on this issue. Quite the contrary but I won't go into more detail than that.
This is a particularly vexing issue for other reasons as well. Even if we had a 'live controversy' we could run with and received a favorable ruling, much of the damage has already been done in that many on-line retailers have washed their hands of us. Having the law clarified would be only the first step. I'm of the opinion that convincing retailers it's safe to do business with MA residents is an even more daunting endeavor.
 
Hell yeah. It was one of the first things we looked at. We thought we could deal with it early on but ran into a few issues.

One of the problems:



You need a live controversy with which to go into court. The last time someone got bullied was in the early to mid ought oughts. It's a three year civil statute of limitations. Heard of any sellers getting sued/charged lately? We haven't either.



We know what we need to do and we have begun doing it. But as you point out, we can't force the ammo companies to take the risk. But we are not sitting on the sidelines on this issue. Quite the contrary but I won't go into more detail than that.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Strong work. I like the Top Secret nature... I wrote a letter to a major this week requesting a cite or a letter or a threat that initiated this practice. The 3 or 4 sales and supervisors and managers I talked to regarding a black friday deal they wouldn't ship could offer no clue as to when or why the prohibition started with that particular company.

Maybe I dreamed it, but I thought I heard or read something about a process of requiring an internet dealer to keep a photcopy/email of my LTC for a few months after completing a sale as proof of compliance with MA laws or something like that. Did I seriously dream about that because I can't find anything about something resembling that in real life...
 
Heard of any sellers getting sued/charged lately?

I'm curious if threats would be sufficient? A major internet retailer recently began offering ammunition, and soon after, added the usual "no ammo to MA" policy. They may have done so because of threats, rather than merely caution.
 
I'm curious if threats would be sufficient? A major internet retailer recently began offering ammunition, and soon after, added the usual "no ammo to MA" policy. They may have done so because of threats, rather than merely caution.

No one has told us about threats, but if you call these companies and were told they were threatened, let us know.
 
I recall from my studies of constitutional law many years ago (IANAL) that many laws/regulations are struck down not because they completely deny a right (e.g. "public political speeches are forbidden") but rather because they have a "chilling effect" on free exercise of said right.

Am I missing something, or has this line of reasoning not been applied in the courts with respect to the erosion of 2A rights in MA and other similar places like DC?

Thanks for all your hard work on our behalf, folks!
 
I recall from my studies of constitutional law many years ago (IANAL) that many laws/regulations are struck down not because they completely deny a right (e.g. "public political speeches are forbidden") but rather because they have a "chilling effect" on free exercise of said right.

Am I missing something, or has this line of reasoning not been applied in the courts with respect to the erosion of 2A rights in MA and other similar places like DC?

Thanks for all your hard work on our behalf, folks!

[laugh2][rofl] I am not laughing at you, but laughing at the idea of courts who would apply the Overbreadth Doctrine to a 2A issue without being made to. It is being tried in CA as well as here and we are watching it very carefully. That specifically hasn't worked yet but we really haven't gotten too far up in appeals with anyone yet. I suspect that it will eventually work, but you will not see a court discuss Overbreadth in 2A terms until SCOTUS does. They have mostly claimed Overbreadth applies to the 1A exclusively. Also, most of the issues we are bringing criminally tend to violate the Constitution on far more basic grounds so overbreadth is overkill as the problem goes away otherwise via another means.
 
[laugh2][rofl] I am not laughing at you, but laughing at the idea of courts who would apply the Overbreadth Doctrine to a 2A issue without being made to. It is being tried in CA as well as here and we are watching it very carefully. That specifically hasn't worked yet but we really haven't gotten too far up in appeals with anyone yet. I suspect that it will eventually work, but you will not see a court discuss Overbreadth in 2A terms until SCOTUS does. They have mostly claimed Overbreadth applies to the 1A exclusively. Also, most of the issues we are bringing criminally tend to violate the Constitution on far more basic grounds so overbreadth is overkill as the problem goes away otherwise via another means.
Thanks for the clarification... good to know I wasn't completely off-base and glad you guys continue to do whatever it takes. Comm2A will definitely be getting more than just my moral support in the future!
 
i may need some help the chief here is most likely going to deny my ltc over his mood for the day if someone can pm me with options i have never been convicted of anything and im clean but i have some issues thanks in advance
 
Back
Top Bottom