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Purchases During LTC Renewal Limbo?

Discussion in 'Massachusetts Laws' started by pinefd, Apr 4, 2019.

  1. pinefd

    pinefd NES Member

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    I filed for renewal of my LTC approximately 7 weeks ago, and did so before my license expired. The officer who processed my application told me that my license would continue to be valid because I (and he) submitted the renewal paperwork before my old LTC expired. He gave me a copy of the paperwork he filed, along with a receipt and my future license number. He said that the new PIN would arrive with the new license. But meanwhile, my old license and PIN would still be valid for the time being.

    So now I'm in LTC renewal limbo, waiting for the new license to arrive, while my old license has an expired date on it.

    I was able to buy a new handgun a couple of weeks ago from one dealer, even though I'm in this limbo period, and he told me that they do this all the time. He entered my old license and PIN, then had to do some kind of manual override, and was then able to process the sale, no problem.

    Then last week, at a different dealer, I tried to buy ammo that they had on sale, and was told they can't sell me ammo because my license had expired. They wouldn't even listen to my explanation of the circumstances or check out any of the renewal paperwork that I had brought with me.

    So what's the real scoop with regard to purchases? I'm guessing that it's mostly up to the discretion of the particular dealer, and whether they know the specifics of the renewal process and legalities?

    Oh, and what about selling? I've got a few handguns that I'd like to try and sell. Should I wait until my new LTC goes through, or am I ok to sell these during this waiting period?

    Thanks in advance.


    Frank
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2019

  2. MuzzleDiscipline

    MuzzleDiscipline NES Life Member NES Member

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    The Mircs receipt he gave you is your LTC until the renewal arrives. You take it and your expired license along with you and you have an unlimited grace period. I believe the Mircs receipt even outlines this on the bottom.

    That does not mean the FFL you are attempting to patronize is informed enough to know this and many won't accept it without regard to how legal it is.


    Selling is the same situation and an EFA-10 should process without problems.
    Go Green
     
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  3. pinefd

    pinefd NES Member

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    Thanks for your reply. That's the impression I've gotten from the small sample of shops I've gone to (two). I guess it's probably best to call ahead next time to make sure that the store I'm hoping to deal with will accept my paperwork.

    Thanks again,

    Frank
     
  4. Len-2A Training

    Len-2A Training Instructor Instructor NES Life Member NES Member

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    Many dealers are intentionally ignorant and incapable of reading the plain English paragraph at the bottom of your MIRCS receipt.

    Don't patronize Dealer #2 again or any ignorant dealers. Dealer #1 was correct. You also won't get any satisfaction at any Wal-Mart or Dick(less) if you try to buy ammo there.

    You can legally buy/sell guns and ammo while in "limbo".
     
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  5. nutsym16

    nutsym16 NES Member

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    A lot of dealers will not sell you a gun with the letter.
     
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  6. swatgig

    swatgig NES Member

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    Spend your money at the first dealer, and out the fudd dealer.

    Well, that didn't take long. (going green)
     
  7. Len-2A Training

    Len-2A Training Instructor Instructor NES Life Member NES Member

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    True. You can't fix stupid!

    A dealer can call FRB Director and get the same answer that I did, perfectly legal. But most like to make up their own "rules" and pretend that it is law. Their business, their rules but we are best to avoid them. To put it bluntly, if a sale goes thru MIRCS, then it was legal . . . so there is no risk to the dealer, and MGL also spells out the legality.
     
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  8. swatgig

    swatgig NES Member

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    Len, does a dealer have the ability to verify that a LTC is still valid? If so, how? The "receipt" comes out of a laser printer and could be easily faked. I suspect they verify it during a gun purchase, but don't know how. Maybe the gun portal? But I don't know that they do that for an ammo purchase.
     
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  9. pinefd

    pinefd NES Member

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    Thanks for all the response, guys, much appreciated! Very helpful.

    Dealer #2 in my case probably falls into the Walmart, Dick's, etc. category (as Len mentioned above)...it was Cabela's.

    When I bought the gun from dealer #1, they were able to put my "old" LTC and PIN into the system and it showed that it was still valid (after a manual override of some kind). I also bought some ammo at the same time, which made that ammo purchase seamless. When I tried to purchase the ammo from dealer #2, they refused to go into the system to verify that my LTC was still valid. I'm going to try to get back to dealer #1 in the next few days to buy some more ammo, and will report back as to how they go about verifying my LTC, since I won't be purchasing a gun at the same time this time.


    Frank
     
  10. Len-2A Training

    Len-2A Training Instructor Instructor NES Life Member NES Member

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    The MIRCS portal will verify validity during a gun transfer. So will doing a LTC Verification thru the portal (anyone can do that, meaning it doesn't have to be for a gun sale). Ammo buyer could do it on his smartphone in front of the clerk if they doubt the validity of the doc. Also a call to the PD could verify it.
     
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  11. Len-2A Training

    Len-2A Training Instructor Instructor NES Life Member NES Member

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    In a lot of ways Cabela's is even worse than Dick(less)! Avoid at all costs.

    See my response to swatgig on how things can be verified for an ammo purchase.
     
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  12. pinefd

    pinefd NES Member

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    Thanks, Len. While you were posting your most recent response, I was looking up my license on the portal, as you suggested in your previous post. I now have a direct link to the portal look-up saved on my smartphone. That should help and streamline things considerably next time I'm out shopping.

    Thanks again!


    Frank
     
  13. nutsym16

    nutsym16 NES Member

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    How about telling us who was knowledge to sell you a gun one your letter. Some of us are in the same status and would like to buy a gun.
     
  14. pinefd

    pinefd NES Member

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    I bought my Sig 1911 Nightmare Carry from Four Seasons, and just pre-ordered a P365 from them as well. Not only do they seem to know the law with regard to those of us going through the renewal process, but I've gotten very good prices from them on both of these guns.


    Frank
     
  15. Varmint

    Varmint NES Member

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    Would it work better to print out a license validation sheet online and take it to the dealer?
     
  16. Varmint

    Varmint NES Member

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    Did you get that P365 yet? Seems like it's taking forever.
     
  17. pinefd

    pinefd NES Member

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    Nope, not yet. I was there last week, and was told that they could arrive anytime between now and late July/early August. So, nothing really new from a timing standpoint.


    Frank
     
  18. Len-2A Training

    Len-2A Training Instructor Instructor NES Life Member NES Member

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    Most dealers who can't read your MIRCS receipt aren't going to believe a license validation sheet either. Keep in mind that if your LTC isn't valid (under the grace period), the dealer can't create an FA-10 in the system either, so they can "test" it too . . . many just don't want to be bothered.
     
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  19. yanici

    yanici NES Member

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    I wonder how a Basic Pistol Instructor would be able to fill out a BFS certificate while in the "limbo" condition. Thee is a place where you need to write in your LTC expirtion date. This could easily happen with some PDs dragging their feet.
     
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  20. Len-2A Training

    Len-2A Training Instructor Instructor NES Life Member NES Member

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    I would put the number down (and note "grace period") beside it.
     
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  21. yanici

    yanici NES Member

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    Wouldn't make for a very pretty certificate, huh? Not suitable for framing.
     
  22. Len-2A Training

    Len-2A Training Instructor Instructor NES Life Member NES Member

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    Function over appearance.
     
  23. CrackPot

    CrackPot NES Member

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    One edge case around the renewal receipt. Your old license remains valid and the dealer can do a verification. I have sold a number of guns to people under these circumstances. There is a window of time where there is no way to purchase a gun. After the state prints the new license, the old license does not show as valid in MIRCS anymore but you don’t have your new license yet. If you are dealing with one of the more retarded police departments, this period of limbo can last for weeks.

    One customer who had a good in with their local department was only in limbo 3 days before he was able to pickup his new license. Another customer was over 2 weeks in limbo the whole time the police department saying “we have not seen it yet”. Willfully not opening the mail is more like it.

    As a dealer, confirm renewal receipt (photocopy if you are paranoid), run verification in MIRCS, print out and save, process sale as normal. This sh*t is not that hard...
     
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  24. MisterHappy

    MisterHappy NES Member

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    Cabela's .... LOL

    My kid took a bolt-action rifle in, to make sure that the scope mount that they said they had, would fit the gun.

    He checked in at the customer service desk, no problem.

    He went back to the gun area, and ....Nope. Didn't have the stuff.

    Kid goes to take the rifle out of the store, and one of the gun dept people follows him through the store, insisting that he had to have a trigger lock on it, to transport it home.

    He tells him that he's wrong, and leaves the store. He locks the rifle in the trunk, and comes back in, with the MGL on his phone.

    "Now you're improperly storing it!!"

    "No, it's in a locked trunk."

    [drops mic on stage. exits.] [laugh]
     
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  25. MAJoe

    MAJoe NES Member

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    Good story to save for any time someone says "well... I heard at the gun shop..."
     
  26. robjax

    robjax

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    I was at Bass Pro about a month ago to buy some target loads for trap shooting. They had a sale so I stocked up as I compete. The lady at the register noticed the expiration date on my license. I asked her if she had a point to telling me my LTC will expire in 5 months. She said she was just pointing it out. I told her it was none of her business and the license is still valid until it isn't and to ring up the order. A month before that I had a similar run in there with another idiot there. If they didn't have decent prices on that ammo I would just go somewhere else. The crap we have to put up with. I am getting so intolerant of the anti BS. If you don't like guns then don't work at Bass Pro.
     
  27. MAJoe

    MAJoe NES Member

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    Maybe she was just being polite, knowing how long renewals take, to ensure yours didn't expire.
     
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  28. robjax

    robjax

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    She had some tude....seems to be a theme there with regard to firearm crap. And what if I went the day before the expiration and had my new license already. My current license is still valid and still none of their business. I see your point though. But she was being a smart a$$ about it.
     
  29. AHM

    AHM NES Member

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    Maybe I should change my catchphrase to...
    My License To Practice Law in Massachusetts Is The Same As A Cabela's Sales Clerk's
     
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