Pulled over with Gun, Search

[Libertarian]

If I have a gun properly stowed away in a locked box in my trunk and I get pulled over and the Cop asks, "Are there any weapons in the car?" Do I say, "Yes, it is locked in my trunk?" and at that point can the officer ask/demand for me to prove that it is stowed appropriately in my trunk? I am an LTC A (with T&H restrictions?)

1. Can I state that I am not consenting to any searches?
2. Could the Cop say that he needs to verify the status of the weapon by law or for his safety?
3. Does having a gun open me up to a search of the vehicle?
4. Are there any other issues I need to be aware of when dealing with a Cop in this type of situation.
5. Essentially what are my rights?

Thanks,
- Libertarian

 

[zeppelinfromled]

If you are asked if there are any weapons in the vehicle, it is best to answer honestly. I would say something like "Yes sir, there is a rifle/shotgun/handgun that I am licensed to own stored properly in the trunk, but I do not have any weapons on my person." He can certainly ask to see the gun in your trunk, but you don't have to let him. It would be very difficult for him to argue that a gun in the trunk posed a threat to his safety. The burden of proof is on the officer. If he has probable cause to think that your gun is stored improperly, then he can search your car. But since it's in your trunk, he won't have that probable cause (unless you say "I have a gun in the trunk and it's loaded"). You will need to produce your LTC if asked for it though.

Having a gun absolutely does not automatically give consent for searches, aside from what is necessary to ensure the officer's safety.

ETA: other issues are that not all cops are as familiar with the laws dealing with firearms as many people on this forum. You can always state that you do no consent to any searches, although IMHO it is wise to wait until you are asked for consent before you state that you do not consent.

If you have a properly stored and legally owned firearm in your trunk, as far as a cop's right to search your vehicle goes, it might as well be a chocolate bar.

 

[Libertarian]

Thanks Zeppelin, I appreciate the advice!

 

[Jose]

If I have a gun properly stowed away in a locked box in my trunk and I get pulled over and the Cop asks, "Are there any weapons in the car?" Do I say, "Yes, it is locked in my trunk?" and at that point can the officer ask/demand for me to prove that it is stowed appropriately in my trunk? I am an LTC A (with T&H restrictions?)

1. Can I state that I am not consenting to any searches?
2. Could the Cop say that he needs to verify the status of the weapon by law or for his safety?
3. Does having a gun open me up to a search of the vehicle?
4. Are there any other issues I need to be aware of when dealing with a Cop in this type of situation.
5. Essentially what are my rights?

Thanks,
- Libertarian

1. Yes, but like zep said, don't volunteer it. Just reply to his request in the negative.

2. Cops can say anything they want, including lie to you.

3. Absent probable cause, or plain sight discoveries that give rise to reasonable suspicion, no.

4. A cop can be huge dick and cuff you for his "safety", rumage through your car without PC or RS, lecture you, and do any number of things that are beyond his authority. The time to deal with it is later through your attorney.

It might also be a good idea to get video and audio recording of what is going on. If your law requires both parties to be aware of the recording, just tell him that everything that is said and done is being recorded. In my state, I don't have to worry about that since only one party needs to know about the recording.

 

[M1911]

It might also be a good idea to get video and audio recording of what is going on. If your law requires both parties to be aware of the recording, just tell him that everything that is said and done is being recorded. In my state, I don't have to worry about that since only one party needs to know about the recording.

You can't do that here in MA. A number of years ago a motorist did just that and was convicted of a felony as a result.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

ou can't do that here in MA. A number of years ago a motorist did just that and was convicted of a felony as a result.

If you read the decision, it clearly states he was convicted not for the audio taping, but for audio taping without notifying the other party.

The opens up a separate set of questions like "is a subject obligated to turn off audio recording if requested by the LEO?" and "is a subject required to maintain audio equipment in such a manner that it can be readily turned off upon demand of an LEO?". Imaging a car, or house, rigged with audio (no permission required for video in MA); proper notice given; but implemented in a manner such that it cannot be readily turned off.

What is most shocking about the Hyde decision is that the MA SJC ruled that allowing covert tape recording could be used by drug dealers to gather evidence of police misconduct when arrests were being made, and that they could not allow that to happen.

 

[dsm]

You can't do that here in MA. A number of years ago a motorist did just that and was convicted of a felony as a result.

Sure you can do it, and Jose is right. Massachusetts is just a state where you need to inform that you are recording, which was not done in the case you are talking about. There is no problem that he recorded, his problem is that he secretly recorded.

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=ma&vol=sjcslip/8429&invol=1

 

[Ruddiger]

You could follow the advice of the National Motorists Association...

Whenever you are pulled over, you should never say anything beyond handing over your license and registration, which is all you are legally obliged to do. A proper response to ANY question is, "Respectfully, officer, I choose not to engage in any conversation. Here is my license and registration." This preserves your rights because anything else you say can and WILL be used against you. Since saying anything at all may escalate any perceived grounds for search, etc., whether proper or not.

 

[zeppelinfromled]

You could follow the advice of the National Motorists Association...

Whenever you are pulled over, you should never say anything beyond handing over your license and registration, which is all you are legally obliged to do. A proper response to ANY question is, "Respectfully, officer, I choose not to engage in any conversation. Here is my license and registration." This preserves your rights because anything else you say can and WILL be used against you. Since saying anything at all may escalate any perceived grounds for search, etc., whether proper or not.

Personally, I think that's a very bad idea. Sure, it would CYA legally, but cops are people. Someone who doesn't want to talk to them seems (and is) suspicious. Not suspicious enough to search their car, mind you, but suspicious nonetheless.

I'd rather deal with them politely. I've been pulled over twice and I had polite conversations with the officer both times, and I left both times with a warning. If the conversation starts to go somewhere that you'd like it not to go, then you can remove yourself from the conversation, but I think it's wise to talk to them in general.

ETA: I wouldn't really advise removing yourself from the conversation at any point. If you're not breaking the law, you know your rights, and you're smart enough to keep up if they try to trick you into giving the consent or probable cause, then you're fine. Just be aware of and keep control over what you're saying. The people who end up in trouble are the people who can't shut up.

 

[mac1911]

I got into a bit of trouble in my teens with driveing with out a license. After $$$$ and lawyers. I learned "identify yourself" then shut up. I had "talked with the officer" and they used every word against me.

 

[JayMac]

The advice that I've personally been given, from both 2 LEO's, in addition to the instructor of my gun safety course, is this: If you get pulled over, when you hand over your license and registration, with both hands on the wheel, inform the officer, :"Just to let you know, I am legally armed. How would you like me to proceed?"
If you are armed, and you do not inform him, your LTC will pop up when he runs your info, and it's up to him whether he comes back with his gun drawn and orders you out of the car or if he just asks you for your LTC. Either way, I was advised to inform the officer before he finds out himself.

Obviously, none of the people who gave me this advice, nor myself, are lawyers, but it's advice I plan on following, unless I hear of a good reason not to.

The USCCA has an article about this subject, but I'm not yet a member, so I don't have access to it.
Has anyone read the article I'm talking about?

 

[firestorm]

 

[JonJ]

My colleagues and I recommend and insist on this:
As soon as the officer starts to approach your car, roll the window down, stick your head out turned towards the officer and yell as loud as you can "I have a gun!".
We'd really appreciate if you did that. We are working with state legislators and the Dept of Public Safety to get this written into law.
Thank you.

 

[namedpipes]

My colleagues and I recommend and insist on this:
As soon as the officer starts to approach your car, roll the window down, stick your head out turned towards the officer and yell as loud as you can "I have a gun!".
We'd really appreciate if you did that. We are working with state legislators and the Dept of Public Safety to get this written into law.
Thank you.

I made the mistake of doing that at a BBQ joint in North Carolina. I knew it would print as I exited the vehicle, so I just politely notified the nearby crowd by yelling that out the window. Funny thing is, when I turned toward them after I stood up, the crowd looked like an NES pincushion! I never SAW so much hardware except at the TVI shoot.

 

[Boston_Shooter]

My colleagues and I recommend and insist on this:
As soon as the officer starts to approach your car, roll the window down, stick your head out turned towards the officer and yell as loud as you can "I have a gun!".
We'd really appreciate if you did that. We are working with state legislators and the Dept of Public Safety to get this written into law.
Thank you.

When I got pulled over, I pulled my gun out of it's holster so as not to hide anything from the officer. Then once the officer approached my car, I thought it would be nice of me to meet him half way. So I got out of my car, with gun in hand.... I got a warning.................................but then again, I WAS driving the Ferrari that day.

 

[qmmo]

Jeebus....where is Gozer the Traveller when you need him?

 

[icyclefar]

When I got pulled over, I pulled my gun out of it's holster so as not to hide anything from the officer. Then once the officer approached my car, I thought it would be nice of me to meet him half way. So I got out of my car, with gun in hand.... I got a warning.................................but then again, I WAS driving the Ferrari that day.

 

[Ruddiger]

Personally, I think that's a very bad idea. Sure, it would CYA legally, but cops are people. Someone who doesn't want to talk to them seems (and is) suspicious. Not suspicious enough to search their car, mind you, but suspicious nonetheless.

I'd rather deal with them politely. I've been pulled over twice and I had polite conversations with the officer both times, and I left both times with a warning. If the conversation starts to go somewhere that you'd like it not to go, then you can remove yourself from the conversation, but I think it's wise to talk to them in general.

ETA: I wouldn't really advise removing yourself from the conversation at any point. If you're not breaking the law, you know your rights, and you're smart enough to keep up if they try to trick you into giving the consent or probable cause, then you're fine. Just be aware of and keep control over what you're saying. The people who end up in trouble are the people who can't shut up.

Well, that might work for you, but it does not work for everyone all the time... the racial minority, the hippie with long hair, the nervous teen, etc. Heck, I know some beautiful women who have told me that they get pulled over all the time for (admittedly) breaking the law. But yet, they are never cited for any offense, or they are let off with a warning. Once, I was with one of these women when it occurred and saw it for myself. She had even acted indignant towards the officer, but he still let her go for some unknown reason.

And believe me, one can be classified as "suspicious" based solely on the color of their skin, regardless of how friendly, polite, and cooperative they behave. So you never know.

Yes, cops are people... and so they bring their own bias' and prejudices to the table, too. The "don't-engage-in-conversation" route is a legal and viable option towards maintaining your rights and personal control of the situation. With any police officer who can't respect that statement, you are going to end up having a problem with, anyway. But at the very least, you will be covered legally since probable cause can then only be established by visual inspection.

Also, I don't understand how yelling "I have a gun" out the window couldn't potentially lead to much worse consequences? The declaration might be interpreted as a threat and could definitely provoke an escalation of force.

 

[jar]

Also, I don't understand how yelling "I have a gun" out the window couldn't potentially lead to much worse consequences? The declaration might be interpreted as a threat and could definitely provoke an escalation of force.

We need some kind of whoosh smiley.

 

[icyclefar]

We need some kind of whoosh smiley.

That traveled so far over the head that no whoosh would be heard.

 

[Chrisg67]

If you are armed, and you do not inform him, your LTC will pop up when he runs your info, and it's up to him whether he comes back with his gun drawn and orders you out of the car or if he just asks you for your LTC. Either way, I was advised to inform the officer before he finds out himself.

does this go for anything you have legally?

what about like...say... groceries? SIR, I HAVE PRODUCE, PLEASE PROCEED WITH CAUTION!

 

[Kevlar]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wCy8MpT45gk

 

[RobXD]

i got pulled over yesterday in watertown,speeding 33MPH in school zone(20MPH),did not have gun on me....
Cop:License and registration!
Me:yes sir...here is my License,registration and i wanna let you know that i am licensed to carry(showed him my ltc) but i dont have anything on me or in the car
Cop:Thank You for letting me know

5 minutes later
Cop:i am giving you only warning ,you are free to go,have nice weekend
Me:You too,thank you very much....

btw :ticket or not ,i would never let him search my car,guns or no guns in the car

My colleagues and I recommend and insist on this:
As soon as the officer starts to approach your car, roll the window down, stick your head out turned towards the officer and yell as loud as you can "I have a gun!".
We'd really appreciate if you did that. We are working with state legislators and the Dept of Public Safety to get this written into law.
Thank you.

hahaha,this is just awesome

 

[Ruddiger]

My colleagues and I recommend and insist on this:
As soon as the officer starts to approach your car, roll the window down, stick your head out turned towards the officer and yell as loud as you can "I have a gun!".
We'd really appreciate if you did that. We are working with state legislators and the Dept of Public Safety to get this written into law.
Thank you.

That traveled so far over the head that no whoosh would be heard.

Ha, ya got me! I might not have fallen for it though if JonJ hadn't mentioned that bit about working with state legislators to get a new law passed... nothing surprises me about MA laws anymore!

 

[Boston_Shooter]

and i wanna let you know that i am licensed to carry(showed him my ltc) but i dont have anything on me or in the car
Cop:Thank You for letting me know

I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic or not....that seems like a stupid thing to even bring up....

 

[namedpipes]

Cop:License and registration!
Me:yes sir...here is my License,registration and i wanna let you know that i am licensed to carry(showed him my ltc) but i dont have anything on me or in the car

It wasn't a Ferrari, was it?

 

[Du510]

I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic or not....that seems like a stupid thing to even bring up....

I was thinking the same thing...

 

[dwarven1]

The advice that I've personally been given, from both 2 LEO's, in addition to the instructor of my gun safety course, is this: If you get pulled over, when you hand over your license and registration, with both hands on the wheel, inform the officer, :"Just to let you know, I am legally armed. How would you like me to proceed?"
If you are armed, and you do not inform him, your LTC will pop up when he runs your info, and it's up to him whether he comes back with his gun drawn and orders you out of the car or if he just asks you for your LTC.

What state do you live in where this supposedly occurs?

 

[qmmo]

I'm guessing the state of Confusion?

 

[jar]

Thanks Ross. I was disappointed that I didn't get to post that in a different thread before it got locked.