PSA: iS It pRe HEaLY?

Well to all including OP who say there is no such thing as pre-Healy, why did dealers stop selling them in 7/16? What happened on that day?

It is a thing, and the fact is no one wants to be a test case. At least with a pre-Healy, you have an additional leg to stand on if you are the one persecuted. That to me is worth a few hundred extra bucks.

.
 
If you are of opinion be of determination, hesitation is the corruption of thought. No one wants to be a test case yet they cast Molon Labe and Come get them all day. I have much more respect for Chelsea Manning willing to go to Jail over and over for her convictions right or wrong. The balls on that lady are admirable. She is brave. No one wanting to be the test case is cowardice and hypocrisy.
 
Legislative intent will almost always end in arbitrary points. It is practically impossible to capture the intent of a large deliberative body. When interpreting statutes one must focus on the actual text of the bill, as passed-through a bicameral body then signed by a separate yet equal branch of government. Once you put intent aside you will see that MGL 140 § 121 is clear and unambiguous. The legislature, through the deliberative democratic process, can at any time expand the named and enumerated weapons should they wish but that has yet to happen.


Viewing any major law (within reason) as "clear and unambiguous" is a mistake. The whole point of law is to find intent, then interpretation, and true meaning. I find it curious that you believe "Legislative intent will almost always end in arbitrary points." I'm not sure which side of the political scale you fall under, but conservative supreme court justices are all part of the Federalist Society. The entire POINT of the Federalist Society is to say what the law is and not what it "should be." They devote their careers in our supreme court to turn upside down any bogus claims and reaffirm the founder's intent in constitutional laws. Possibly you side with the democrats in which case fine, believe what you wish.

Secondly, if you want to get specific about mgl 140 section 121 and ignore intent entirely I will indulge you and go that route. The law quotes "...copies or duplicates..." The easiest comparison I can find is in patent law. Patent law has a "test", called the Doctrine of Equivalents, they use to discover whether two similar products are essentially the same, or different. The test requires that the product in question meet all three conditions: does it have the same function, done in the same way, with the same result. Because an AR15 is a firearm, we must ignore the fact its main function is to be a rifle, shoot a projectile, utilize a semi-automatic internal action, and takes a detachable magazine. These functions are shared amongst nearly all firearms and would be improper to consider. To do the test we examine what makes an AR15 unique against other firearms. The result- collapsable stock, ability to hide muzzle flash, unique internal design, amongst others. These are all that matter because they are the core of an AR15. Performing the test, it is quickly realized that a mass compliant sporting rifle does not meet all three conditions. It does not meet the function of tactical use in remotely the same way. Tactical use is hindered by the fact the stock is no longer adjustable, and the muzzle flash cannot be hidden. The universal and customizable nature of the AR15, being a one size fits all firearm, is immediately destroyed by a noncollapsable stock. Once these features are taken away, a mass compliant sporting rifle becomes no different than any other rifle design besides the fact that it has a pistol grip. At this point, the "tactical function" of the mass compliant sporting rifle is no greater, nor different than any other semiautomatic rifle and is far less superior than an AR15. To wrap up, failing condition one also means it fails two and three. So no, a mass compliant sporting rifle is not a copy, or duplicate, of a Colt AR15. On top of this, as it's been said numerous times, it does not even meet the qualifications of "assault weapon" through the function test.
 
The me rephrase the question to make it clearer:

Do you agree with the AG's interpretation that an item that is not a firearm, rifle or shotgun under Massachusetts law is a duplicate of a prohibited firearm? This is a yes or no question.

No, a stripped receiver is a piece of aluminum and a nothing more. However, if it is assembled, using the same trigger, hammer, small parts and attached to an upper with a bolt and carrier that is the same as a banned gun then I can see heallys point that it is a copy or duplicate.
 
The whole point of law is to find intent? You lost me there. The true meaning of any law must be 42 then. "Conservative supreme court justices are all part of the Federalist Society." I am unable to parse that statement.

However, I think you might be confused on the original intent (originalism before Scalia), v original public meaning (textualism), v original law originalism, v living originalism.

Intent != Meaning.
 
It’s not the same as a banned firearm because it does not meet the feature list that explicitly is stated in banning said firearm.

I see what youre saying, but this law does not list any features:

''Assault weapon'', shall have the same meaning as a semiautomatic assault weapon as defined in the federal Public Safety and Recreational Firearms Use Protection Act, 18 U.S.C. section 921(a)(30) as appearing in such section on September 13, 1994, and shall include, but not be limited to, any of the weapons, or copies or duplicates of the weapons, of any caliber, known as: (i) Avtomat Kalashnikov (AK) (all models); (ii) Action Arms Israeli Military Industries UZI and Galil; (iii) Beretta Ar70 (SC–70); (iv) Colt AR–15; (v) Fabrique National FN/FAL, FN/LAR and FNC; (vi) SWD M–10, M–11, M–11/9 and M–12; (vi) Steyr AUG; (vii) INTRATEC TEC–9, TEC–DC9 and TEC–22; and (viii) revolving cylinder shotguns, such as, or similar to, the Street Sweeper and Striker 12; provided, however, that the term assault weapon shall not include: (i) any of the weapons, or replicas or duplicates of such weapons, specified in appendix A to 18 U.S.C. section 922 as appearing in such appendix on September 13, 1994, as such weapons were manufactured on October 1, 1993; (ii) any weapon that is operated by manual bolt, pump, lever or slide action; (iii) any weapon that has been rendered permanently inoperable or otherwise rendered permanently unable to be designated a semiautomatic assault weapon; (iv) any weapon that was manufactured prior to the year 1899; (v) any weapon that is an antique or relic, theatrical prop or other weapon that is not capable of firing a projectile and which is not intended for use as a functional weapon and cannot be readily modified through a combination of available parts into an operable assault weapon; (vi) any semiautomatic rifle that cannot accept a detachable magazine that holds more than five rounds of ammunition; or (vii) any semiautomatic shotgun that cannot hold more than five rounds of ammunition in a fixed or detachable magazine.

A now repealed federal law did. But this law lists copies or duplicates (in any caliber). I don't agree with this gun ban stuff and the Mass law may even be poorly written but then it needs to be repealed or litigated. It will come a time and Heally will go after a dealer and then we will get a court decision.
 
Guida pulled this mans license and forced him into litgation and this man prevailed but only an anti gun activist would have done such a thing.

Interesting New Gun Case from Massachusetts' Highest Court - The Volokh Conspiracy
Just want to make a point that the Guida of 2013 is not the Guida of 2020 anymore..... back then he was a puppet of anti-gun a**h***s... just a gov. functionary. I would Hazard a guess that even that decision to rescind that guy's permit wasn't actually made by him but somebody above him. Those dipshitz made him the "Fall Guy" for a lot of bullshit. Eventually all of that was too much for him to take and he left frb. Given his recent history with a lot of people I think he's redeemed himself from that pretty well. I say this as the guy who basically used to shit on him more than anybody else on this whole forum. Some people who are clients of his, have told me first person of his good work. Even a close friend of mine is one of them. Usually I'm bitter and hold grudges but that was one that I had to let go. We have to acknowledge as humans that sometimes people learn and change, and develop themselves in terms of personal character and moral compass.
 
This is a correct interpretation, based on my reading/research. The intent was to prevent Colt et al from just calling it an AR-16 and continuing to sell the same rifle.

Plenty of places to find normally priced lowers from what I hear.

yes, but are they in stock??? Additionally, the, uh, .308 factor is a distinguishing detail some have going for them.
 
You both are arguing the exact same viewpoint, some of that may have been lost in translation, but you’re on the same side and both well stated

I agree. I have to admit, I was reading and typing that on my phone while I was in the middle of bluing one of my flintlock’s barrels (the original ar15;)) and I didn’t fully understand @MAGAArms until I just re-read our conversation on my computer.

The point I was trying to make, is yes she has standing in her words, but so do we. It is certainly arguable either way, but thats what’s important. I don’t want people to stop the fight and think she’s the only one on solid ground with her enforcement order.
 
No, a stripped receiver is a piece of aluminum and a nothing more. However, if it is assembled, using the same trigger, hammer, small parts and attached to an upper with a bolt and carrier that is the same as a banned gun then I can see heallys point that it is a copy or duplicate.
Her point is that it is a copy or duplicate absent any other parts and may not be sold.
 
Thank my Lord Jesus Christ for not mentioning Pre carpet cleaning and for not ass raping my LMT sale.
I need to sleep at night knowing I didn’t screw over my fellow man for a buck.

Maybe I’ll drop a few more items off for reasonable money. I rather be looked back as a good guy, not some sleazy used car salesman.
 
Thank my Lord Jesus Christ for not mentioning Pre carpet cleaning and for not ass raping my LMT sale.
I need to sleep at night knowing I didn’t screw over my fellow man for a buck.

Maybe I’ll drop a few more items off for reasonable money. I rather be looked back as a good guy, not some sleazy used car salesman.
Nobody is getting "screwed" if you didn't hold a gun to their head or otherwise lie to the buyer to sell the thing. If someone got soaked it's usually their own damn fault for not doing their homework. I bet you didn't sell it at typical lgs trade in price (probably at the lower end of book values) so depending on who is making the definitions you might have still "soaked the guy." [laugh] see how inherently retarded this thought process is? The value is whatever the market is willing to bear, which is always a somewhat nebulous target. I've "overpaid" for a lot of stuff in the past, but never once held the seller responsible for that. If the price is too high you have to negotiate or walk away, a power the buyer nearly always retains.
 
This is a correct interpretation, based on my reading/research. The intent was to prevent Colt et al from just calling it an AR-16 and continuing to sell the same rifle.

Plenty of places to find normally priced lowers from what I hear.

Seems these places are closer than some might think. Doesn't take looking too far to find them. Also funny how many people are just unwilling to ask?

Thank my Lord Jesus Christ for not mentioning Pre carpet cleaning and for not ass raping my LMT sale.
I need to sleep at night knowing I didn’t screw over my fellow man for a buck.

Maybe I’ll drop a few more items off for reasonable money. I rather be looked back as a good guy, not some sleazy used car salesman.

I actually think your LMT was for sale for very reasonable money considering everything going on. Probably why it sold as opposed to sitting on here for 4 years.
 
Nobody is getting "screwed" if you didn't hold a gun to their head or otherwise lie to the buyer to sell the thing. If someone got soaked it's usually their own damn fault for not doing their homework. I bet you didn't sell it at typical lgs trade in price (probably at the lower end of book values) so depending on who is making the definitions you might have still "soaked the guy." [laugh] see how inherently retarded this thought process is? The value is whatever the market is willing to bear, which is always a somewhat nebulous target. I've "overpaid" for a lot of stuff in the past, but never once held the seller responsible for that. If the price is too high you have to negotiate or walk away, a power the buyer nearly always retains.
Great. I have a mint AR10T that I’ll post up. Plus a few Sigs I no longer need.
 
Great. I have a mint AR10T that I’ll post up. Plus a few Sigs I no longer need.
Yes- I encourage you to embrace capitalism and get whatever you can get for them. Usually when I price items I sort of read the overall market and then price it in such a way that I know it will sell quickly- My priority.... but I'm not really concerned about whether somebody thinks they're getting soaked or not... I'm not forcing them to buy any of it that's for sure. No different than when people call me in desperation to fix shit and I charge them 90 to 125 bucks just to show up. (Friends and family pay little, but on the other end, business is business. ) In 22 years I've only ever had 2 people claim I charged too much. Needless to say they're not customers anymore, although one of them was never really one to begin with, just a lead... I've only ever had one guy try to skinflint me on a gun I sold too, I stood my ground and he paid the firm price. If he's still bitter now about the extra 50 bucks, he's a retard because that gun is worth at least four to five hundred more than what I sold it to him for.... lmao. Oh and one time I sold a dude on here a rifle where I pretty much almost tripled my take on and that one, and the dude was the happiest guy on earth to get it for the price that I sold it.... He restored the furniture on it and it came out great... all things are relative.... especially wrt this stuff.
 
Last edited:
Yes- I encourage you to embrace capitalism and get whatever you can get for them. Usually when I price items I sort of read the overall market and then price it in such a way that I know it will sell quickly- My priority.... but I'm not really concerned about whether somebody thinks they're getting soaked or not... I'm not forcing them to buy any of it that's for sure. No different than when people call me in desperation to fix shit and I charge them 90 to 125 bucks just to show up. (Friends and family pay little, but on the other end, business is business. ) In 22 years I've only ever had 2 people claim I charged too much. Needless to say they're not customers anymore, although one of them was never really one to begin with, just a lead... I've only ever had one guy try to skinflint me on a gun I sold too, I stood my ground and he paid the firm price. If he's still bitter now about the extra 50 bucks, he's a retard because that gun is worth at least four to five hundred more than what I sold it to him for.... lmao. Oh and one time I sold a dude on here a rifle where I pretty much almost tripled my take on and that one, and the dude was the happiest guy on earth to get it for the price that I sold it.... He restored the furniture on it and it came out great... all things are relative.... especially wrt this stuff.
I get it Mike. I’m a much better employee than a salesman but I’m the boss for a small place.
I’m great at what I do with a background to prove it.
I’d royally suck at sales. Seriously suck ass at it.
Fact is I’m moving out of this state and there is no need to take all this weight with me.
It’s easily replaced today.
 
And back to Broccoli's original comment about $200 lowers.

If you are simply paying retail you can get a Gucci style LaRue lower for about $200.
~$100ish gets you a cool gadsten flag Spikes billet lower. If you figure in you save $20ish in not needing to buy a curved trigger guard, its a great deal.


Screen Shot 2020-06-22 at 1.14.30 AM.png

And if you are a real skinflint, you can get a diamondback foreven less. These are wholesale numbers, but there are dealers selling for the Retail MAP listed here.

Also, these wholesale numbers are for a quantity of ONE. Larger dealers can buy for considerably less.

Screen Shot 2020-06-22 at 1.15.39 AM.png
 
Nice try Maura.

But in all seriousness. I am exagerating a bit, though I have seen them directly on aeroprecisionusa.com for $59 with free shipping.

And frankly Anderson's are fine too. I saw one of them advertised for $34.99 before the Covid craziness began.

Maybe this will refresh your memory. Lower Receivers | Receivers at Brownells

Issue still remains, everything there and elsewhere (unless I am mistaken, which it’s definitely possible) is out of stock, or they don’t ship to MA, or it’s back ordered with no in stock date given. We aren’t talking pre-COVID, we’re talking about right now. The supply chain isn’t going to improve for the foreseeable future. So for the people that planned ahead, or have the resources and connections to contacts that can get these products to them...they’re good to go. They prepared and they’ve got the stock, and that’s awesome. More people SHOULD be prepared. Someone new to the game might believe that Healey’s meaningless edict is the word of God and not buy an AR lower out of fear. They may not have the resources or the inclination to find a lower at MSRP if an FFL will even transfer one to them.

The FFL’s on this thread are providing lowers - stripped or complete during a pandemic and available for immediate cash up front/carry out, while having the ability for the customer to now build a relationship with a local dealer for future business. Like it or not, that’s the market, and that’s the demand that’s out there.

No one wants to name any FFL’s where they can get lower prices, because of the bs “Hi Maura.” thrown around on here....I’m sure no one is PM’ing avenues for obtaining said lowers either. Everyone wants to mention price gouging yet @TPNES and his associates have undercut all if not most of the WTS prices on here, and have introduced KAC, LMT and high end lowers to the market. They’re offering an avenue for customers, out in the open. It’s up to anyone to buy them or not. Is it overpriced? Thats up to no one but the customer to decide. The beauty of our consumerist society, how much are you willing to pay to have it right now? Ultimately their prices still have undercut the WTS ads and they’ve flooded the market with lowers. Seems to me that’s a win-win...

Like I said tho, all this talk of lowers and toys and price gouging, and MAGA....need more toys [mg],need to not be a poor [crying]
 
Last edited:
Back
Top Bottom