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PSA: iS It pRe HEaLY?

I'm not complaining. the more suppliers the better.

By the way, the wholesaler I got those items posted above had many in stock.

Anyone who pays anywhere near $200 for a mil-spec type lower is a fool.

Unless its a pre-94 ban lower.
 
dcmdon said:
Anyone who pays anywhere near $200 for a mil-spec type lower is a fool.
Click to expand...

Don right now there are people getting into bidding wars on gunbroker over pump action shotguns. "tomfoolery" is effectively part of the current market
landscape. I realize the lowers is mostly a "mass" thing but the same hysteria invades a lot of stuff. Also many buyers are not connected and not interested in doing
legwork to find someone that will inbound them a "cheap" lower. They're "afraid" of even asking the question or trying to facilitate it. Especially not in this state. On the other hand you put something on a silver platter, they will buy it. "Placement". "Value Adds", "convenience" "advice" "intel" etc. Those things are worth something. TPNES gets sales because he puts much of that on the proverbial silver platter.

Basically, he's offering the pepsi.... [laugh]


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8iJF0UuyG_k
 
Ya know as far as paying too much. I paid $600 for a plain Jane lower from a well reputed member here. I got several chuckles from the smug few. I had parts around and I wanted to get rid of them. I sold the rifle for $1300 the first day I offered it. The price isn't too high if someone will pay it and when both parties walk away with a smile on their face that is called a good Yankee trade. So many on here are God fearing gun toting liberty believing capitalist heroes that don't know the first thing about what they purport to believe.

my $0.02 and worth what you paid for it.
 
dcmdon said:
I'm not complaining. the more suppliers the better.

By the way, the wholesaler I got those items posted above had many in stock.

Anyone who pays anywhere near $200 for a mil-spec type lower is a fool.

Unless its a pre-94 ban lower.
Click to expand...

That’s my point, “The wholesaler I got...” you have a name for the wholesaler? Avenue for transfer? In the end, it ultimately doesn’t really matter to anyone unless we as a whole are willing to share the resources, which opens up another can of worms (why should I share resources when you can just do the legwork yourself, learning from doing, networking etc etc) My point is, you have the know-how, the experience and the connections. Not everyone has that or the inclination to do that.

All I’m saying is there are FFL’s who are posting out in the open they’re willing to sell X for X price. If other FFL’s are also willing to post in the open, that they’ll sell for MSRP or under or whatever their price is, then go for it. Undercut @TPNES and flood the market with lowers! Ultimately everyone wins. No one else seems to be or wants to be willing to do that. Like @MAGAArms said, no one wants to be the first test case, either end user or what have you.

It’s quite literally the exact same argument with Glocks in MA, or any off-roster handgun. Anyone who has been around knows the roster is complete horses**** and Glocks are amongst the easiest guns to get in MA “if you know where to look.” yet every day, there are WTS ads for $750-800 for Glocks, or “rare in MA” guns that are priced whatever it is the price is. It is what it is. Sellers are able to price them that high because people aren’t aware of other avenues, they don’t care, or some combination of the above.

As a consumer, it’s not my place to tell any one with an FFL how to do their job. They are able to assess their own risk tolerances, and decide their own business practices, but so far all I see is one person trying to get a product to the masses where there’s a demand, and do some business in the meantime.
 
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I bought a lower in early April from the OP. No one forced me to buy it and some will think I paid too much. Here 's the scoop. I had a pistol I got from my Dad when he passed. I also happened to have an idetical pistol that I had bought. I sold the pistol from my Dad and used the $ to buy the lower. Win/win for me and the FFL and everyone walks away happy. Capitalism.

As @drgrant said, no one is forcing you to buy anything. Don't like the price, move on. Someone will pay or the price will go down.
 
rkade2 said:
That’s my point, “The wholesaler I got...” you have a name for the wholesaler? Avenue for transfer? In the end, it ultimately doesn’t really matter to anyone unless we as a whole are willing to share the resources, which opens up another can of worms (why should I share resources when you can just do the legwork yourself, learning from doing, networking etc etc) My point is, you have the know-how, the experience and the connections. Not everyone has that or the inclination to do that.

All I’m saying is there are FFL’s who are posting out in the open they’re willing to sell X for X price. If other FFL’s are also willing to post in the open, that they’ll sell for MSRP or under or whatever their price is, then go for it. Undercut @TPNES and flood the market with lowers! Ultimately everyone wins. No one else seems to be or wants to be willing to do that. Like @MAGAArms said, no one wants to be the first test case, either end user or what have you.

As a consumer, it’s not my place to tell any one with an FFL how to do their job. They are able to assess their own risk tolerances, and decide their own business practices, but so far all I see is one person trying to get a product to the masses where there’s a demand, and do some business in the meantime.
Click to expand...
I agree with everything you have said.
 
dcmdon said:
And back to Broccoli's original comment about $200 lowers.

If you are simply paying retail you can get a Gucci style LaRue lower for about $200.
~$100ish gets you a cool gadsten flag Spikes billet lower. If you figure in you save $20ish in not needing to buy a curved trigger guard, its a great deal.


View attachment 367133

And if you are a real skinflint, you can get a diamondback foreven less. These are wholesale numbers, but there are dealers selling for the Retail MAP listed here.

Also, these wholesale numbers are for a quantity of ONE. Larger dealers can buy for considerably less.

View attachment 367134
Click to expand...
I said

SUB $200 ... that means below $200.

I could have said sub $100, but I didnt think it would have been realistic, specially when a lot of lowers were over $100 even pre-Healey (depending on what you wanted).

The same NES lower that is selling for like $900 on the classifieds, I have one, I think we paid $50-80 a few years back. If I knew, I would have dumped my entire 401K into those lowers. [laugh]
 
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TPNES said:
That’s awesome, so which FFL did it go to that did the transfer for you for free or 5 bucks or whatever you paid!!? Share so all can prosper! How come all of this is tribal knowledge made on back room know a guy that knows a guy type stuff?

Let us see your face Brother Bigsby!
Click to expand...

I honestly don't know if the FFL would want his name put on this thread. But there are plenty. I'd suggest getting a list of some of the Mill guys and working down that list.
 
Aeroprecision will not ship to MA, even to a FFL/dealer. Try and buy a sticker from them, let alone a lower and they will decline. Aero has to come through a distributor as a result.

At any given time you can find some lowers at some distributor and if you checkout quickly you can even get them shipped to you (eventually). For a while we had 2-4 week backlogs at the distributors on shipping even if they did have stuff in stock. The distributor you show below was the absolute worst. They were at almost 30 days from order to shipment for a while. They are down into the high teens now for delays.

Distributor pricing may or may not be interesting as it does not necessarily reflect acquisition cost. During "normal" times, yes, it is reflective. During times of multiple week delays, buying at retail, expedited shipping, etc are necessary if you actually want to have something in stock. I have bought a lot of items at non-distributors over the last 3 months to insure I was able to deliver to my customers what they wanted to buy. I explain that it will be more now and the price will be lower if they are willing to wait. Most want to make the purchase now.

AR lowers add an additional layer of complication. Many believe they are "illegal" because of a press conference and supporting "documentation" on an official website. You are right, most FFLs won't advertise that they are willing to perform the totally legal transfer/sale of an AR lower. Some advertise but require you to sign an affidavit that you will only build 22LR. (The only reference to 22LR in Chap 140 relates to tubular magazines so why that matters (ok, the press conference)).

@TPNES is serving a market. People who don't want to do lots of leg work but know they want a lower and look for one advertised. He is below almost every other advertised price IN MA. Again, free state prices dont matter unless you do the leg work to find someone who will transfer. We can bash him endlessly but it only adds to the advertising hype.

People will come out of this with
a) lowers
b) civics lesson on the difference between the executive branch and legislative branches of government
c) butt hurt that someone is making money
d) clear understanding if they are a capitalist or a socialist (ok, not really, because they are not actually self aware)

I enjoy these threads. You supply facts but are clearly ok with the free market doing its thing. Many others just get butt hurt, report the posts, call out "price gouging", want censorship, contact the AG, etc. Interesting behavior from theoretical free thinking individualists. Suddenly they too want to control the behavior of others.

Another real world example in the gun world. M16 replacement parts. trigger, sear, full auto-sear, pin, springs, etc. All the parts unique to the M16 vs an AR15. All perfectly legal to buy/sell/own. The lower with the 3rd hole drilled is the "machine gun" in this case, so all the parts are fine. Go on the internet and start looking for parts to buy. Prices have come down, but the only place that used to openly advertise sold kits for ~$180. They are now down to a bargain $129. There are now other vendors selling kits or complete M16 LPKs at reasonable prices. Or you can buy the individual parts from Brownells for under $20. Yes, $129 vs $20 if all you do is google and someone else does your leg work and advertises.

I am certain the $129 vendor is raking it in. They can sell 1 for every 5 that Brownells sells and are still coming out ahead.

Parts for your HK have a similar "advertising" cost from the biggest boldest HK parts seller who advertises. They sell above retail because people will pay it by not doing their homework.

Capitalism is wonderful!


dcmdon said:
And back to Broccoli's original comment about $200 lowers.

If you are simply paying retail you can get a Gucci style LaRue lower for about $200.
~$100ish gets you a cool gadsten flag Spikes billet lower. If you figure in you save $20ish in not needing to buy a curved trigger guard, its a great deal.


View attachment 367133

And if you are a real skinflint, you can get a diamondback foreven less. These are wholesale numbers, but there are dealers selling for the Retail MAP listed here.

Also, these wholesale numbers are for a quantity of ONE. Larger dealers can buy for considerably less.

View attachment 367134
Click to expand...
 
. Many others just get butt hurt, report the posts, call out "price gouging"
Click to expand...
Would these people sell their house for a fair markup based on acquisition cost or at market?
Theres your unicorn "50$ anderson lower". How many does that FFL have? How often is he doing this? How many times a day? Can people readily find and access such a price and dealer?
Click to expand...
It's like people who want shops to match the other guy who is out of stock. Well, d'uh - there is a reason he is out of stock.

It's like certain cleaning products. The supermarkets are not adjusting antibacterial Dial soap and sanitizing wipes to market prices, so you are almost always going to find these vendors out. But, supermarkets, Home Depot, etc. have adjusted masks to market ($30 for 50 disposable low end masks) so they are now readily available. The later was possible only because these were not commonly sold before so there is no obvious pre-teotwawki reference price to use as the basis for a gouging complaint.
 
Rob Boudrie said:
Would these people sell their house for a fair markup based on acquisition cost or at market?
Click to expand...
Come on Rob. Don't be logical and give them real world examples of them behaving the same way. It does not "fit the narrative".

You are either a capitalist or you are AOC (see what I did there? emotional argument. maybe that will work [rofl])
 
All I can say is this:
I bought a couple lowers from the OP a few months ago when corona was just hitting.

Here's the thing:
1.) From a capitalist POV, the OP is certainly doing the right thing. I don't see any other dealers stepping up and helping the common man. The minute other FFLs start selling lowers, the OP will have competition and prices decrease. But I don't see that happening. Be grateful this guy is offering stripped lowers right out in the open.
2.) I needed lowers. I'm not going to break my back to save a few bucks. My time is worth money. I walk in, pay cash, and I walk out with lowers in my hand. Done. You won't find me returning soda cans, I'd rather give it to someone else who can benefit from it. My time is worth more than $3. I'm not going to look back and say "oh man I couldve saved $50 to make arguably the greatest rifle ever made". Lowers are in my possession and I'm still standing.
 
I've been on the site for 10+ years. I have a few posts. 100% feedback on at least 58 deals. I'm not otherwise particularly well connected in MA shooting circles but I can search and I know how to work a phone. I saw the ads with the steep prices and the obscure bird references and decided I wanted to build something. I found a lower that I wanted for sale elsewhere online but after making a few calls to FFLs I couldn't find any who would agree to transfer it in. I posted here on NES a few times in the hope that someone would PM me the name of a shop who would do it. Nobody did.

TPNES is a good reasonable guy. He has good stuff that's hard to come by in this climate, but more importantly he's filling a gap in the local market. We should be encouraging more like him. The alternative is to kneel to Heelee and validate her bullshit, and give up on ever having more/new ARs in MA.
 
CrackPot said:
Come on Rob. Don't be logical and give them real world examples of them behaving the same way. It does not "fit the narrative".
Click to expand...
The typical answer is "That's different, we're talking about my money".
Be grateful this guy is offering stripped lowers right out in the open.
Click to expand...
You can say all you want about Healey's edict being unlawful - this dealer is risking felony charges which, even if bogus, would likely involve (at minimum) a consent decree after several thousands, or tens of thousands , of dollar of legal work. Plus, there is always the possibility of not getting a deal and a marsupial judge bestowing PP status. Remember, if it goes to a jury, the jury will not be asked to decide if the edict exceeded her authority, but only if the dealer did, in fact, sell the lawyer (and any attorney introducing the former would risk sanctions from the court). In the days before medical marijuana, the courts routinely refused to allow defendant or their counsel to mention medical motivation, as the only question for the jury was "did the defendant possess". It's one of the ways they stack the deck.

Part of what you are paying for, as evidenced by the few willing to enter the market as sellers of PHBLs, is the assumption of financial and legal risk.

Now, if we get a decent dealer with pancreatic cancer, all bets are off. The person won't live to see trial, and the system will not want to absorb responsibility for his medical care.
 
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Frankly, I think that TPNES should just take this all the way and openly challenge the press conference by sending the AG's office a letter stating that he and many other's are continuing to build AR15's on new lowers and that there isn't a damn thing she can do about it because her press conference isn't written into law.

Attach a list of all of your clients to the letter and see what happens.

If nothing happens, then we're pretty much in the clear. If they come after you and your clients, then you'll win in court and a new precedent shall be set.
 
kevblah said:
Frankly, I think that TPNES should just take this all the way and openly challenge the press conference by sending the AG's office a letter stating that he and many other's are continuing to build AR15's on new lowers and that there isn't a damn thing she can do about it because her press conference isn't written into law.

Attach a list of all of your clients to the letter and see what happens.

If nothing happens, then we're pretty much in the clear. If they come after you and your clients, then you'll win in court and a new precedent shall be set.
Click to expand...

Everything is being done in the open and in the clear - the public reads NES, as does the AG’s office. I’m sure part of her game is ensuring NO prosecution takes place, because then she does in fact risk a precedent being set. No games are being played here. Everything is advertised as such, up to you to determine your own risk tolerance. These guys have done their homework, and know what they’re doing. Which is why they have market share right now, they’re doing what no one else is willing or can do. For me, that right there is reason enough for me to go to them, pay any premiums that may or may not exist....for lowers and whatever else I may need. Because they’re willing to meet the demand and give us what we want. Simple as that. Anyone is free to join them or not join them.
 
TPNES said:
Sorry but I try very hard not to model my business practices after other FFLs who provide 4473 information to the state. Attach a list of clients. Lol. Good one. What we have done has challenged it more than sufficiently.

My dog is still alive. I still have a medical license. Clearly not committing felonies left and right.
Click to expand...

Listen, for $1000 they may or may not be able to find you a Gen 2 Glock that has mismatched serials AND when you’re done, provide your 4473 to the AG’s office okay? What’s wrong with that business model! They’re servicing....someone, something, somewhere...
 
TPNES said:
Sorry but I try very hard not to model my business practices after other FFLs who provide 4473 information to the state. Attach a list of clients. Lol. Good one. What we have done has challenged it more than sufficiently.

My dog is still alive. I still have a medical license. Clearly not committing felonies left and right.
Click to expand...
Excellent sir...
 
SKumar said:
I needed lowers. I'm not going to break my back to save a few bucks. My time is worth money. I walk in, pay cash, and I walk out with lowers in my hand. Done. You won't find me returning soda cans, I'd rather give it to someone else who can benefit from it. My time is worth more than $3. I'm not going to look back and say "oh man I couldve saved $50 to make arguably the greatest rifle ever made". Lowers are in my possession and I'm still standing.
Click to expand...

Bingo!
 

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