PSA: iS It pRe HEaLY?

Interesting want to sell posted:

- It's pre-Healey
- No, I have no paperwork to prove it
- It was never Efa-10'd, so you have to "manufacturer" it post-Healy
- I want the full market price for a documented and FA-10ed pre-Healey lower
 
Interesting want to sell posted:

- It's pre-Healey
- No, I have no paperwork to prove it
- It was never Efa-10'd, so you have to "manufacturer" it post-Healy
- I want the full market price for a documented and FA-10ed pre-Healey lower

-None of this matters because its trivially easy for any bonehead flipper to forge a gun shop receipt or an old FA-10, and absolutely no simple way for the buyer to figure out they've been duped. Thats reason 65536 why "pre and post Healy" is completely stupid.
 
-None of this matters because its trivially easy for any bonehead flipper to forge a gun shop receipt or an old FA-10, and absolutely no simple way for the buyer to figure out they've been duped. Thats reason 65536 why "pre and post Healy" is completely stupid.
No kidding. Hell I'll FA10 some and sell it to somebody if they really want it to already be in the system and to be nanny stated to the max.
 
Really wish I read this thread before returning a lower due to my ignorance on the law and the whole edict holding water.
I feel your pain man. I did something similar last year. Tried to read as much as I could to find out what I could own, and a week after buying a “pre-Healey” I found out the law had never actually changed. Made a trip to the mill the same week and just sold the first AR.
 
I feel your pain man. I did something similar last year. Tried to read as much as I could to find out what I could own, and a week after buying a “pre-Healey” I found out the law had never actually changed. Made a trip to the mill the same week and just sold the first AR.
I returned my first one to the mill. Got yelled at about saying how it’s legal. I just said I wasn’t comfortable (at the time) with how gray area it was, and it wasn’t taken the right way. But I know the people at the mill are passionate, and I’m also not a bitch so I didn’t take it personally, the person could have just been having a bad day. I’ll probably go back, own up to my end of shit and give them the sale again because I’ve seen several people say they’ve registered them. So hats off to the mill and their for providing this service and giving the people true information. It’s greatly appreciated, especially from someone who’s a newbie to the next level of gun ownership. I sat for years with just one firearm. The more I read, the more I want more and more.
 
People are just afraid of their own shadow. I had one guy I sold a G19 to restate, maybe 4-5 times, that he has all my info and will fully cooperate with law enforcement if selling him a glock turns out to be illegal 🤦‍♂️ this after asking me 10 times if it was legal to own a glock in MA.

The "pre-healey" sellers aren't the problem. If people feel more comfortable paying the premium versus looking into why it's all horseshit, let them.
 
People are just afraid of their own shadow. I had one guy I sold a G19 to restate, maybe 4-5 times, that he has all my info and will fully cooperate with law enforcement if selling him a glock turns out to be illegal 🤦‍♂️ this after asking me 10 times if it was legal to own a glock in MA.

Lol, you are way too patient, I would have told that guy to f*** RIGHT OFF and would have never sold him anything to begin with. Thats massive alarm bells in my book.

Years ago I actually had someone like that put in an offer on one of my guns and after the 3rd back and forth with dumb legal questions I just said "Sorry dude, I've made a concious decision at this point that I am NOT selling you this gun, even if it is arguably legal, because your lack of cognitive abilities is liable to cause us both problems. You're better off sticking with deli ticket emporium and not buying stuff on a private sale. Best of luck. "


The "pre-healey" sellers aren't the problem. If people feel more comfortable paying the premium versus looking into why it's all horseshit, let them.

The only problem with this is not telling people about it is basically promulgating a lie. "Pre Healey" is a legally meaningless term. Allowing it to stand is basically allowing Goebbels big lie theory to win. EG- "keep repeating a BIG lie often enough and eventually it becomes the truth" that's almost the entire basis of "pre vs post healey".

People who put Pre Healey in a classified ad....


View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vn_PSJsl0LQ
 
Question if Frau Healey's edict does not have some force of law (even though it is not law), then why are FFLs not transferring complete ARs made after 1994? Including the mill.

As one member wrote above all firearms defined as assault weapons and copies are illegal per the AWB. If you are in Court you might (KEYWORD) have a defense with a firearm made from a lower pre 7/16 by saying it wasn't clear until the edict was declared. If you have one made after then you've got nothing. No defense start working on a plea.

If any of you have been in Court for anything at all you know even if you win, you lose. Your bank account gets drained no matter what as well as your time. If you have lots of those then you may want to take you chances. If not then you maybe the smarter thing is make your build a little closer to something defensible.
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Question if Frau Healey's edict does not have some force of law (even though it is not law), then why are FFLs not transferring complete ARs made after 1994? Including the mill.

As one member wrote above all firearms defined as assault weapons and copies are illegal per the AWB. If you are in Court you might (KEYWORD) have a defense with a firearm made from a lower pre 7/16 by saying it wasn't clear until the edict was declared. If you have one made after then you've got nothing. No defense start working on a plea.

If any of you have been in Court for anything at all you know even if you win, you lose. Your bank account gets drained no matter what as well as your time. If you have lots of those then you may want to take you chances. If not then you maybe the smarter thing is make your build a little closer to something defensible.
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You've answered your own question:

Question: If Frau Healey's edict does not have some force of law (even though it is not law), then why are FFLs not transferring complete ARs made after 1994?
Answer: If any of you have been in Court for anything at all you know even if you win, you lose.
 
You've answered your own question:

Question: If Frau Healey's edict does not have some force of law (even though it is not law), then why are FFLs not transferring complete ARs made after 1994?
Answer: If any of you have been in Court for anything at all you know even if you win, you lose.

It would also mean that they couldn’t charge a premium for lowers “because of the risk” involved. keep it somewhat on the DL with an air of mystery, and keep prices high. Right? Makes good business sense.
 
Question: If Frau Healey's edict does not have some force of law (even though it is not law), then why are FFLs not transferring complete ARs made after 1994?
Answer: If any of you have been in Court for anything at all you know even if you win, you lose.

Lol the actual answer has little or nothing to do with "Court" at all but the effects can be worse in a proximate sense.
 
How does the seller of a current production lower know what it's going to be built into and subsequently registered via eFA10 as?
They don’t unless you tell them? Even then, you can tell them you’re building a fixed mag, pinned-stock AR15 in .22, but that doesn’t mean you aren’t building an SBR or an Apache attack helicopter.
 
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You've answered your own question:

Question: If Frau Healey's edict does not have some force of law (even though it is not law), then why are FFLs not transferring complete ARs made after 1994?
Answer: If any of you have been in Court for anything at all you know even if you win, you lose.
Which is why I've argued we need a Matt Light type pro2A celebrity, or someone that is unassailable (e.g. a Reverend) get an FFL07 and document the sale of an AR or two on TV to another unassailable individual. Back it with NRA, GOAL, and Comm2A legally. Call out the BS publicly and pull a "so what are you going to do about it". It is all about who blinks first, and the gun shops blinked hard and fast.....
 
Which is why I've argued we need a Matt Light type pro2A celebrity, or someone that is unassailable (e.g. a Reverend) get an FFL07 and document the sale of an AR or two on TV to another unassailable individual. Back it with NRA, GOAL, and Comm2A legally. Call out the BS publicly and pull a "so what are you going to do about it". It is all about who blinks first, and the gun shops blinked hard and fast.....
Question if Frau Healey's edict does not have some force of law (even though it is not law), then why are FFLs not transferring complete ARs made after 1994? Including the mill.

As one member wrote above all firearms defined as assault weapons and copies are illegal per the AWB. If you are in Court you might (KEYWORD) have a defense with a firearm made from a lower pre 7/16 by saying it wasn't clear until the edict was declared. If you have one made after then you've got nothing. No defense start working on a plea.

If any of you have been in Court for anything at all you know even if you win, you lose. Your bank account gets drained no matter what as well as your time. If you have lots of those then you may want to take you chances. If not then you maybe the smarter thing is make your build a little closer to something defensible.
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Dealer licenses are may issue not shall issue. The law and what is legal are irrelevant when you can be administratively punished with no due process and little recourse. The sale of a complete receiver and a complete upper avoid the scenario where undo pressure gets applied to the licensing authority (local PD) to suspend or fail to renew the dealers license.

No we don’t need a flaunting of the press conference to bring clarity. Clarity already exists. “Shall have the same meaning as” federal law makes the whole thing a very very quick slam dunk in federal court should actual legal action (vs administrative action) be taken. The problem is that this forces the hand of the super majority gun grabbing legislature and instead they just pass the crap as ACTUAL law and we are all phuked. The status quote while it sucks donkey balls is better than an updated AWB. Right now we have the federal AWB. We don’t want to be CA or NY where they have their own custom AWB subject to local interpretation and constant updates to play catch-up with clever people finding legal work around (think bullet button loophole getting closed).

What we have sucks compared to a free state but is superior to CA or other full-retard states. The existing FUD caused by the Healey crap is keeping things at bay from getting vastly worse. I am in no way an apologist for the current crap we live under but trying to be realistic. It will get a lot worse before it gets better if we actually show the emperor has no clothes, that is definitively show that Healey is crap. We need another state’s AWB challenge to make it to SCOTUS, or worse Biden to pull some crap that makes it to SCOTUS to actually blow up the gun control crap. We don’t need MA to get worse to make ourselves then new test case.

The open selling of lowers is likely the reasonable limit before the legislature decides to consume the necessary political capital to pass more restrictions on our freedoms.
 
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People are just afraid of their own shadow. I had one guy I sold a G19 to restate, maybe 4-5 times, that he has all my info and will fully cooperate with law enforcement if selling him a glock turns out to be illegal 🤦‍♂️ this after asking me 10 times if it was legal to own a glock in MA.

The "pre-healey" sellers aren't the problem. If people feel more comfortable paying the premium versus looking into why it's all horseshit, let them.
Wow. I think I would have just packed it up and told him no deal.
 
Can't wait to get ripped apart here for being a FUDD....but this topic has interested me for quite some time and I've often found myself researching it in depth so I knew what I felt comfortable purchasing/building. Had a good talk with a director over at GOAL on the subject and a few pointers from our conversation:
*Healey can decide to enforce the ban at any time, and a liberal judge is probably going to side with her interpretation, not ours.
*The director is personally aware of certain police chiefs in the commonwealth that have told their officers "post healey" builds are illegal, even if following the features test.
*Although these builds are being successfully registered, it's technically in violation of her AWB interpretation, and could be subject to prosecution in the future. Doesn't matter that you got away with it for now.
*Sure you can buy a lower, it's legally not a firearm...the legality really comes into play when you build it...
*FFL's are not subject to the AWB in regards to possession. (they can sell to LEO)

Do you guys- I am a constitutionalist, just relaying what I've learned. Personally, I'm going pre ban.
 
Can't wait to get ripped apart here for being a FUDD....but this topic has interested me for quite some time and I've often found myself researching it in depth so I knew what I felt comfortable purchasing/building. Had a good talk with a director over at GOAL on the subject and a few pointers from our conversation:
*Healey can decide to enforce the ban at any time, and a liberal judge is probably going to side with her interpretation, not ours.
*The director is personally aware of certain police chiefs in the commonwealth that have told their officers "post healey" builds are illegal, even if following the features test.
*Although these builds are being successfully registered, it's technically in violation of her AWB interpretation, and could be subject to prosecution in the future. Doesn't matter that you got away with it for now.
*Sure you can buy a lower, it's legally not a firearm...the legality really comes into play when you build it...
*FFL's are not subject to the AWB in regards to possession. (they can sell to LEO)

Do you guys- I am a constitutionalist, just relaying what I've learned. Personally, I'm going pre ban.

Keep running from your own shadow, it's probably good cadiovascular exercise.
 
Can't wait to get ripped apart here for being a FUDD....but this topic has interested me for quite some time and I've often found myself researching it in depth so I knew what I felt comfortable purchasing/building. Had a good talk with a director over at GOAL on the subject and a few pointers from our conversation:
*Healey can decide to enforce the ban at any time, and a liberal judge is probably going to side with her interpretation, not ours.
*The director is personally aware of certain police chiefs in the commonwealth that have told their officers "post healey" builds are illegal, even if following the features test.
*Although these builds are being successfully registered, it's technically in violation of her AWB interpretation, and could be subject to prosecution in the future. Doesn't matter that you got away with it for now.
*Sure you can buy a lower, it's legally not a firearm...the legality really comes into play when you build it...
*FFL's are not subject to the AWB in regards to possession. (they can sell to LEO)

Do you guys- I am a constitutionalist, just relaying what I've learned. Personally, I'm going pre ban.
This is what my understanding was. I don't agree with Auntie Maura or her nonsense but in the interest of keeping me 100% clear, I stayed preban as well. I'm sure Ill leave the state at some point soon anyways but as far as I'm concerned, opening myself up to the court hearings and legal fees isn't worth it. An FFL I trust told me she didn;t introduce a new law, but reinterpreted an existing law. Yes, everything she says contradicts itself, but the way he put it made sense to me.

Also, from my understanding, when you self-register, it is only a recording system. It does not have the ability to scan and flag anything. The headache comes from looking into the serials and determining the date of manufacture and the date of transfer. I will agree with others that if you manage to get yourself hung up and they are looking at your guns, you basically screwed up already. Lowers are not legally considered firearms until built and functional. You could buy and build, sure, but when you register it, you leave a record with a number that can come back to get you.

Like I said, I don't agree with any of it by any means and think the whole thing is retarded but some things just aren't in my control. Personally, I think this state sucks and is an embarrassment to the rest of the country (minus CA, who we are in a pissing match with to see who can ruin the country first)
 
Can't wait to get ripped apart here for being a FUDD....but this topic has interested me for quite some time and I've often found myself researching it in depth so I knew what I felt comfortable purchasing/building. Had a good talk with a director over at GOAL on the subject and a few pointers from our conversation:
*Healey can decide to enforce the ban at any time, and a liberal judge is probably going to side with her interpretation, not ours.
*The director is personally aware of certain police chiefs in the commonwealth that have told their officers "post healey" builds are illegal, even if following the features test.
*Although these builds are being successfully registered, it's technically in violation of her AWB interpretation, and could be subject to prosecution in the future. Doesn't matter that you got away with it for now.
*Sure you can buy a lower, it's legally not a firearm...the legality really comes into play when you build it...
*FFL's are not subject to the AWB in regards to possession. (they can sell to LEO)

Do you guys- I am a constitutionalist, just relaying what I've learned. Personally, I'm going pre ban.

My personal research and discussions with a 2A - sympathetic attorney (he is my best man) has me believe what you outlined.

If a lower has been registered in MA pre- Healey it can be sold privately and you can build whatever rifle you want that does not fall under AWB + MA addons.

A lower is not a weapon. You can buy/sell them and have them registered. Problem is when you build it you have 7 days to register it and that is when it breaks the law. What was explained to me was that in practice the moment you put the barrel on the upper it is considered a weapon and it needs to be registered and if you do so that is when you are breaking the law and leaving a clear undeniable audit trail in the efa10 system that can be used against you.

Now, if a lower has not been registered before Healey than you can certainly buy it/ sell it as long as you dont build it out. So FFLs and private parties can sell lowers without a problem for anybody.

I might have some pieces wrong as I am not a legal guy nor have the inclination for it , but the gist is post-Healey lowers are allowed to be bought and owned, but you cant build them out legally.
 
Now, if a lower has not been registered before Healey than you can certainly buy it/ sell it as long as you dont build it out. So FFLs and private parties can sell lowers without a problem for anybody.
To note, it was my understanding that lowers acquired before 7/20/2016 in the state of MA were legal to build because they were transferred into the state. As stripped lowers, they are not able to be registered until built, but if they were in fact transferred to someone in state before 7/20/16, you can still build and register.

I would assume the best thing to do is have a receipt showing the sale and transfer date since theres no FA10 record on the lower when purchased since it is not a "firearm". Granted, if they really want to take the time to look into it and check the 4473s, they have enough to temporarily break your balls. I know I would feel better at least having some documentation on the lower to avoid the hassle of bringing a legal rep into the matter while they investigate it.
 
...I know I would feel better at least having some documentation on the lower to avoid the hassle of bringing a legal rep into the matter while they investigate it....
That’s a misplaced sense of comfort though. If you’re jammed up for “possessing an assembled lower” you need legal representation whether it’s “pre-edict” or not. The lawyer bills are going to bankrupt you either way.
 
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