Protect and Serve? Nah. Generate revenue

Rating - 100%
31   0   0
Joined
May 8, 2005
Messages
4,728
Likes
347
Location
In the Great Smoky Mountains
Ok, enough. It's about time this bashing of our government ceases.
These are good people, with only our best interests at heart. They are only trying to save lives and all this nonsense about gouging citizens and padding payrolls is disingenuous and revolting.

It needs to stop now...seriously. Together we can.
 
J

Jose

Ok, enough. It's about time this bashing of our government ceases.
These are good people, with only our best interests at heart. They are only trying to save lives and all this nonsense about gouging citizens and padding payrolls is disingenuous and revolting.

It needs to stop now...seriously. Together we can.

Do I detect a bit of sarcasm? [smile]
 

Big Daddy 45acp

Instructor
Rating - 100%
8   0   0
Joined
Nov 30, 2005
Messages
3,425
Likes
541
Location
Lynn, MA
Ok, enough. It's about time this bashing of our government ceases.
These are good people, with only our best interests at heart. They are only trying to save lives and all this nonsense about gouging citizens and padding payrolls is disingenuous and revolting.

It needs to stop now...seriously. Together we can.

Isn't that what Charles Whitman said just before he climbed that tower?
 

Chopper

NES Member
Rating - 100%
10   0   0
Joined
Jan 19, 2007
Messages
406
Likes
27
I think the insurance companies are behind it. More moving violations, more points added to your safe driver score, higher premiums[smile]
 

dwarven1

Appleseed Instructor
Rating - 100%
33   0   0
Joined
Mar 13, 2005
Messages
27,707
Likes
2,084
Location
Starksboro, VT
New York State has started pulling this crap too, IIRC. I believe that there's a nice new "High Risk Out-of-state Driver Surcharge" in effect. Get a speeding ticket and get an additional $400 fine. [shocked][angry]
I got stopped in CT several years ago... I got told that if I was a good little serf and paid my ticket, CT wouldn't report the points to MA. If I contested it and lost, they WOULD report the points!! Even though I got picked out of the MIDDLE of a pack of cars, I was speeding, so I wussed out and paid.

Obviously, though, Connecticut doesn't care about safety, only about how much they can gouge out of state drivers for. [angry]

I gotta wonder... is there ANY cop on this board that thinks that speeding tickets are about safety more than revenue?
 
J

Jose

The Ohio State Highway Patrol should try PATROLLING once in a while.

Maybe we should change their car insignia from a flying wheel to a cinderblock and rename the outfit to the Ohio State Stationary Radar Gun Operators Unit. There would then be truth in advertising.

The would could file them all in the MRDD short busses and drive them to selected locations on freeway central reservations where their radar guns and chairs would be waiting.
 
Rating - 100%
11   0   0
Joined
Nov 9, 2007
Messages
4,082
Likes
531
Location
Burlington, MA
Did the dirt obstruct your lights and/or vision, or did he have an interest in a car wash?

I went to work right from wheeling and before I left work to go home, I cleaned my plates specifically so a cop wouldn't stop me, and one did anyway.

He walked all around my truck and looked at everything trying to find something to get me for, and in the end had to make something up.

When he gave me the ticket, I didn't argue. I knew what he wanted, and I wasn't going to give it to him.
 
Rating - 100%
31   0   0
Joined
May 8, 2005
Messages
4,728
Likes
347
Location
In the Great Smoky Mountains
Prominent Boston lawyers say the Pike’s plan to prod state police to collect $1.2 million more from speeders - half of that near the city - in the coming year to help balance the budget depleted by the Big Dig is unconstitutional.

The appearance of a ticket quota, defense attorneys charge, violates the state constitution, basically, the right of everyone to slog to work under similar circumstances.

“It’s not equal protection under the law,” attorney Thomas Dwyer said of the Pike’s ticket tinkering.

Chasing down speeders to raise cash, and not “detering violators, would, in fact, be illegal,” added defense titan J. Albert Johnson.

“It sounds like a quota and quotas are against the law,” said Plymouth defender Rodney Schonland.

Attorney Peter Elikann, a criminal justice specialist with the Massachusetts Bar Association, said the Pike board’s cash-grab is an unfair tactic.

“There’s no sense of fair play,” he said. “The tickets won’t be taken as seriously by the courts.”

It also hurts the image of troopers, he said.

“They’re making troopers appear to be ticket-writing widgets or robots,” Elikann added.

As reported in yesterday’s Herald, the Massachusetts Turnpike Authority is pushing state troopers to collect $5.8 million in motor vehicle violations in 2008, an increase of $1.2 million over this year’s ticket tally. Troopers are being asked to zero in on speeders inside Route 128 for $600,000 of the projected budget boost.

Pike officials had no added comment yesterday. They have said the beefed-up patrols will close in on financial losses when troopers were pulled off the toll road afte the July 10, 2006, Big Dig tunnel ceiling collapse that killed Milena Del Valle of Jamaica Plain.

Those troopers, Pike officials say, were redirected to details while repairs were made, decreasing the amount of tickets written and, subsequently, the revenue raised by fines. Now theycan concentrate on the roads again.

“It’s obscene,” said Pike commuter Janice Anderson, 53, of Boston yesterday.

“Highway robbery, plain and simple. That’s what it is. Where is the money going?” said Randy Carter, 31, of Roxbury at a Pike rest stop yesterday.

Colneth Smiley Jr. contributed to this report.
 

dwarven1

Appleseed Instructor
Rating - 100%
33   0   0
Joined
Mar 13, 2005
Messages
27,707
Likes
2,084
Location
Starksboro, VT
I went to work right from wheeling and before I left work to go home, I cleaned my plates specifically so a cop wouldn't stop me, and one did anyway.

He walked all around my truck and looked at everything trying to find something to get me for, and in the end had to make something up.

When he gave me the ticket, I didn't argue. I knew what he wanted, and I wasn't going to give it to him.
When I was 19 or so, I was driving home late one night on I80 in NJ - it was sometime after midnight. The road was empty except for me, and a NJ storm State Trooper. He was in the right lane, doing a little over 50. I was in the middle lane, oh-so-slowly overtaking him.. at 55.

Well, I passed him and he immediately puts his lights on. He pulls me over and tells me that I was going 70. And that's where I made my mistake...

You see, I was driving a 12 year old, rusted out, 67 Chevy II station wagon, with a 194 cu in straight six motor. So when the trooper told me I was going 70, I laughed... I told him it was impossible, as the car simply wouldn't DO 70!

Bastard gave me a ticket for failure to keep right. [angry]
 
Rating - 100%
19   0   0
Joined
Nov 14, 2005
Messages
10,089
Likes
845
Location
New Ipswich, Finn-Land
It looks like another way the Commonwealth is going back to the 80's. Back then, it seemed that all the PD's did was generate revenue from speeding fines. Time to buy some stock in radar detector companies.
 

RKG

NES Member
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Joined
Dec 7, 2005
Messages
3,850
Likes
701
Location
Boston
Well, here I go sticking my neck out again:

1) I do not defend (or critique) speed limits. However, they are the rule, and breaking the rule is an offense.

2) I believe most posters have mis-read the press release. It did not say that this resumed enforcement effort was motivated by a revenue issue, and it most certainly did not say that enforcement was being resumed despite a concern for safety. What the press release said is that enforcement was reduced for a period on account of the tunnel ceiling collapse diverting manpower, and that with that issue now concluded, the manpower would revert to enforcement. The fact that resumed enforcement would yield resumed revenues is axiomatic, not a statement of motivation.

3) Those (including those lawyers) who claim that resumed enforcement on the Turnpike violates some constitutional right need to change their Kool-Aid. Implicit is the notion that the risk of detection for violating the law should be the same on all roads, and there is nothing in either the United States or Massachuetts constitutions that comes even remotely close to such a requirement.

4) My observation is that, on account of trooper diversion or whatever, in the last year or so the Pike has become truly, well, interesting. I'm no particular slouch on the pedal, but when you are routinely passed by cars doing a buck plus, it do get your attention.

5) For what it may be worth, the Turnpike is essentially a private road. All of the troopers in Troop E are essentially on detail; their salaries are paid by the Turnpike, not the State Police. If you think that the speed limits on the Pike are in need of change, petition the Pike to change them; but if you don't (or they don't) then your choices are only three: use another road, obey the rules, or pay the fines.

I now withdraw neck and duck into bunker.
 

jcr

Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Joined
Jul 19, 2007
Messages
1,250
Likes
67
Location
Reading, MA
So the claim has been made that since Troopers were diverted to police Big Dig detours, speed limit enforcement was decreased, and that as a result observed top speeds and average speeds have increased.

If speed limit enforcement is for public safety, has there been a demonstrable increase in traffic accidents and injuries that coincides with the increase in speed? It'd be nice if drunk driving incidents were separated from sober driving over the speed limit, too.
 

dwarven1

Appleseed Instructor
Rating - 100%
33   0   0
Joined
Mar 13, 2005
Messages
27,707
Likes
2,084
Location
Starksboro, VT
2) I believe most posters have mis-read the press release. It did not say that this resumed enforcement effort was motivated by a revenue issue, and it most certainly did not say that enforcement was being resumed despite a concern for safety. What the press release said is that enforcement was reduced for a period on account of the tunnel ceiling collapse diverting manpower, and that with that issue now concluded, the manpower would revert to enforcement. The fact that resumed enforcement would yield resumed revenues is axiomatic, not a statement of motivation.
NewsCenter 5's Gail Huff reported that the authority has decided to increase radar enforcement on the turnpike in order to raise $1.2 million more in revenue.
That means state police will be stepping up patrols and handing out more tickets to speeding motorists from Stockbridge to Boston.

Turnpike officials said the $1.2 million hike would only bring the budget back in line with ticket revenue from the years before the 2006 I-90 connector tunnel ceiling collapse that killed one motorist.
Rob, would you care to re-read the above quote and repeat your comment?
 
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Joined
Aug 10, 2006
Messages
133
Likes
3
Location
Out West
Does it appear a coincidence that The Attorney General is going after automobile insurance companies for too high rates while pushing for competition in the insurance industry. This all means more risk (not necessarily less revenue) for the auto industry. By writing more tickets, this tosses a bone to the insurance writers, increasing their revenue over what capitalistic competition might reduce. Bottom line, its more than just cops writing more tickets.
 

dwarven1

Appleseed Instructor
Rating - 100%
33   0   0
Joined
Mar 13, 2005
Messages
27,707
Likes
2,084
Location
Starksboro, VT
I might agree with that if I didn't know that the company I consult for is thrilled that they can drop auto and motorcycle rates 8.5% now that there's competition. Sorry...
 

PaulD

NES Member
Rating - 100%
27   0   0
Joined
Aug 15, 2007
Messages
12,180
Likes
1,255
Well, here I go sticking my neck out again:

1) I do not defend (or critique) speed limits. However, they are the rule, and breaking the rule is an offense.

I hear what you're saying but speed limits, IMO, are patent BS as currently set. Speed limits haven't been raised since the 60's and cars today are much safer and higher performing than they were then. The quality difference in tires alone is huge.

In addition, I've done a lot of commuting on MA highways including Rt 3 between 128 and NH. You will never (or nearly never) see a state cop handing out tickets during rush hour. If you're on Rt 3 in the morning, you'll often see a cop on the opposite side but never on the busy side. That tells me that they don't want to slow traffic even though it's the most dangerous time to speed (and plenty of people are).

Finally, I'd love to see stats on citations handed out for speeding vs. other moving violations (lack of signaling, failure to keep right, running redlights, etc). I'd put money on tickets written for speeding are far greater than those for all other moving violations combined. The reason for that is obviously that technology makes catching speeders easy.

I haven't had any ticket in a long time but I wouldn't hesitate fighting it.

I now withdraw neck and duck into bunker.

NECK CHOPPED! [smile]
 

drgrant

Moderator
NES Member
Rating - 100%
61   0   0
Joined
Mar 21, 2006
Messages
81,967
Likes
68,265
I hear what you're saying but speed limits, IMO, are patent BS as currently set. Speed limits haven't been raised since the 60's and cars today are much safer and higher performing than they were then. The quality difference in tires alone is huge.

I agree with this. I'm of the opinion that overkill speed enforcement
on highways is basically the result of the collusion of
the insurance industries with the state. The insurance providers
make all kinds of cash off premium increases caused by "points"
that get added, etc. They also get revenue from people who
may have been busted for speeding many times, but may have
never been in an at-fault accident. The whole thing is free money
for them. The state also profits bigtime revenue wise because
most tickets probably don't get challenged. A good friend of
mine for instance, fits this profile perfectly. Never had an at fault
accident in his known life; but yet came close to losing his license
a couple of times because of the "3 in a year" rule. He's been
driving for 20+ years, too, with at least 20K miles a year (he does
sales. ) Yet, somehow the insurance companies still think that
he's a "risk". [rolleyes]

I don't have a problem with the police stopping DANGEROUS
drivers, but this revenue collection ponzi scheme crap is
sickening. It's revenue collection under the guise of
safety. [rolleyes]

In addition, I've done a lot of commuting on MA highways including Rt 3 between 128 and NH. You will never (or nearly never) see a state cop handing out tickets during rush hour. If you're on Rt 3 in the morning, you'll often see a cop on the opposite side but never on the busy side. That tells me that they don't want to slow traffic even though it's the most dangerous time to speed (and plenty of people are).

I think it has more to do with the fact that the risk to the officer
of getting into an accident or getting hit while outside the cruiser
is probably 100 times higher during rush hour, just because of the
sheer number of cars. Trying to pull someone over in that
kind of bedlam just seems like a dangerous exercise, for the LEO
and for the drivers. I think it's a matter of competing harms... it's
"cheaper" to just allow the mass civil disobedience to occur than it
is to try to stop any of it.

Finally, I'd love to see stats on citations handed out for speeding vs. other moving violations (lack of signaling, failure to keep right, running redlights, etc). I'd put money on tickets written for speeding are far greater than those for all other moving violations combined. The reason for that is obviously that technology makes catching speeders easy

I would believe this, too. A lot of it is because the other offenses are simply harder to bag someone for.

-Mike
 
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Joined
Oct 4, 2006
Messages
835
Likes
9
Location
North of Woosta, 16 mi. south of Freedom
I read an article awhile ago that pointed out that something like 90% of drivers fall into 1 of 2 categories. There are those drivers who drive the posted limit regardless of how unreasonably low it is. There are also driver who drive a reasonable speed regardless of what the posted limit is. What causes most accidents is not speed, but the difference in speed by these 2 groups. Which is why lowering the posted limit doesn't solve anything.

It is nice that the police tend to stay away during rush hour. Their mere presence causes traffic problems, even if they're just driving somewhere. Almost everyone hits the brake peddle when they see a cop, even if they're not speeding, and this causes a nasty ripple effect in heavy traffic.

It'd be nice if we could do away with speed limits on highways and only write tickets for things like reckless driving, DUI, failure to keep right/going too slow in left lane etc.
 

PaulD

NES Member
Rating - 100%
27   0   0
Joined
Aug 15, 2007
Messages
12,180
Likes
1,255
I read an article awhile ago that pointed out that something like 90% of drivers fall into 1 of 2 categories. There are those drivers who drive the posted limit regardless of how unreasonably low it is. There are also driver who drive a reasonable speed regardless of what the posted limit is. What causes most accidents is not speed, but the difference in speed by these 2 groups. Which is why lowering the posted limit doesn't solve anything.

I agree that speed differential is often a contributing factor to accidents though I think some form of stupidity is usually a bigger factor (talking on phone, applying makeup, shaving, eating Big Mac, reading People magazine [yes, I actually saw that once], texting, being afraid to drive, etc).

Your "driving a reasonable speed" comment is a good one. I think most competent people would consider 80mph perfectly safe (assuming traffic allows it) on many highways but the speed limit is invariably much lower. This screams revenue enhancement to me.
 

M1911

Moderator
NES Member
Rating - 100%
27   0   0
Joined
Apr 1, 2005
Messages
39,724
Likes
8,113
Location
Near Framingham
I don't think speed differential per se is the cause of accidents. The Autobahn is very safe, even though the folks in the high speed lane might be going 50+ mph faster than those in the right lane.
 

drgrant

Moderator
NES Member
Rating - 100%
61   0   0
Joined
Mar 21, 2006
Messages
81,967
Likes
68,265
I don't think speed differential per se is the cause of accidents. The Autobahn is very safe, even though the folks in the high speed lane might be going 50+ mph faster than those in the right lane.

In MA it doesn't pan out that way though. Some moron will always
be in the passing lane in the middle of whenever going slow. One
afternoon I was cooking along pretty good on rte 2 and it was
a good thing I was paying attention.... because some $%$#%$!
was going like less than 40 mph in the passing lane, in a car that
looked like a yugo station wagon. (or some similarly sized POS
vehicle) The reason the autobahn works well is because more
people obey "known" rules... eg, if your slow stay here, if you're
cooking, go here, etc.

-Mike
 

M1911

Moderator
NES Member
Rating - 100%
27   0   0
Joined
Apr 1, 2005
Messages
39,724
Likes
8,113
Location
Near Framingham
The reason the autobahn works well is because more people obey "known" rules... eg, if your slow stay here, if you're cooking, go here, etc.

-Mike

And that happens because 1) they have real training requirements for getting a license, 2) the license test is hard, and 3) they actually enforce traffic laws other than speeding -- e.g., keep right except to pass, don't pass on the right, etc.

Here in MA, we've decided not to have real driver training, to have a ridiculously easy driving test, and to not enforce most traffic laws (except for speeding). So as I said, I don't think speed differential is the cause of the accidents; instead, the cause is all other stupid stuff people do on the roads.
 
Rating - 0%
0   0   0
Joined
Oct 4, 2006
Messages
835
Likes
9
Location
North of Woosta, 16 mi. south of Freedom
I don't think speed differential per se is the cause of accidents. The Autobahn is very safe, even though the folks in the high speed lane might be going 50+ mph faster than those in the right lane.

In Germany it takes most people over a year to get their license. Also in Germany you get your license once and lose it once, no second chances (unless thing has changed).

Imagine what our roads would be like if DUI was a life long dis qualifier for a drivers license. Unfortunately in this country we'd have more people driving without a license instead of fewer people DUI.

The autobahn is safe because they know how to drive. But on the flip side when an accident does happen in bumper to bumper at 100+mph it's HUGE.

The differencial in speed is why slower traffic is REQUIRED by law to keep right, trucks are permitted only in the right lane. The left lane is for passing only and if someone comes flying up behind you, you're required to move over and let them pass, not slam on your breaks like some people do here if someone gets too close.

Our drivers education in this country is no better than our regular education. A couple weeks in a class room, 6 hours behind the wheel, 6 months and you got a license.
 
Top Bottom