primers

[PL-52]

Ok so my next question is, if I can only legally have 1000 primers in my house at one time, can I decap and prime a 1000 cases and store them as ammo? as I can store 10,000 rounds of centerfire ammo legally . There is no way the Fire Chief is issuing a storage permit here. Then d this again until I'm actually ready to reload all that primed stock? Or am I wasting my time and should just load and shoot the 1000 then buy more ? I'd rather by a couple thousand at a time when I can make the trip to the places I'm buying components.

 

[peterthefish]

If shit has gone downhill to the extent that your house is being raided, a fine for storing too many primers will be the least of your problems.

 

[PL-52]

I hear that I'm just asking questions so I know the right answers. That's what this forum is about, no. Getting advice from people with more experience and knowledge?

 

[Len-2A Training]

It's now 999 w/o permit. 527 CMR 1.0 (NOT 527 CMR 13.0 - obsolete but still cited on GOAL website).

My personal opinion (IANAL) is that primed cases are not primers, thus your assumption should work. ALL my fire chiefs have been really good guys and not worried about these technicalities. However, an insurance company on a loss could have issues with non-compliance. It is NOT a matter under police jurisdiction, which is a very good thing.

I have to wonder why you think N'boro FD would never issue a permit. They are actually required to do so and if they give you any static the next call should be to the State Fire Marshal's Office as they are in charge of this issue.

Even Boston FD issues permits, albeit the most expensive in the state but they issue them. Your cost should range from $0 to $25 and should be good for 1-5 years depending on local town and FD policies.

 

[PL-52]

I don't live in Northboro (BTW)

 

[eboos]

Very weird issues to deal with in MA. This primer thing is by far the stupidest regulation/law that I am aware of.

 

[mac1911]

It's now 999 w/o permit. 527 CMR 1.0 (NOT 527 CMR 13.0 - obsolete but still cited on GOAL website).

My personal opinion (IANAL) is that primed cases are not primers, thus your assumption should work. ALL my fire chiefs have been really good guys and not worried about these technicalities. However, an insurance company on a loss could have issues with non-compliance. It is NOT a matter under police jurisdiction, which is a very good thing.

I have to wonder why you think N'boro FD would never issue a permit. They are actually required to do so and if they give you any static the next call should be to the State Fire Marshal's Office as they are in charge of this issue.

Even Boston FD issues permits, albeit the most expensive in the state but they issue them. Your cost should range from $0 to $25 and should be good for 1-5 years depending on local town and FD policies.

when i applied for the permit to store more primers one the the chief stated in general conversation was smokeless powder, primer and ammo are low on the concern list when it comes to fires. just dont store them in tightly sealed cases.

 

[PL-52]

I shouldn't store ammo in ammo cans?(tightly sealed cases) Have you ever been in a military ammo bunker? I store all my finished reloads in .50 cal ammo cans . Maybe I'm doing something wrong, I never said I was the sharpest knife in the drawer.

 

[eboos]

I shouldn't store ammo in ammo cans?(tightly sealed cases) Have you ever been in a military ammo bunker?

And where are ammo bunkers typically located in relation to the rest of the base facilities? Military ammo storage balances concerns giving a priority to rapid embarkation. The ammo needs to be able to be transported quickly, so with that as a priority, ammo bunkers are typically located far from other facilities in a base for safety. Small arms ammo is not much of a risk though.

 

[mac1911]

I shouldn't store ammo in ammo cans?(tightly sealed cases) Have you ever been in a military ammo bunker? I store all my finished reloads in .50 cal ammo cans . Maybe I'm doing something wrong, I never said I was the sharpest knife in the drawer.

ammo cans are not tightly sealed....against water maybe. If my google foo was a little stronger i might be able to find the mil spec burst pressure of a standard ammo canister. my guess is a single digit psi.

 

[mac1911]

And where are ammo bunkers typically located in relation to the rest of the base facilities? Military ammo storage balances concerns giving a priority to rapid embarkation. The ammo needs to be able to be transported quickly, so with that as a priority, ammo bunkers are typically located far from other facilities in a base. Small arms ammo is not much of a risk though.

I cant speak for military or what is classified as a ammo storage or depot and the levels of ammunition and or explosives.
ATF had guidelines on specifications for level 2,3and 4 magazines for ammuntion and explosives storage. They are nothing more than wood lined steel boxes to resist water, theft and fire...
as far as the conversation with the chief the hazards of all the plastics burning in your house are more likely to kill you and be dangerous vs small arms and smokeless powder.

 

[EddieCoyle]

Ammo cans will vent if pressurize from the inside (in other words, they're not a bomb).

You can have more loaded ammo than you can have primers. As long as you don't go above that with primed cases, you're probably all set.

(Unless you're not).

 

[eboos]

I agree, and every demonstration the I have seen supports that conclusion.

 

[mac1911]

im to lazy to look but im sure you can find it here...
i doubt is changed much over the most current info available. My guess is the seal or can itself will fail at less than 3psi

http://everyspec.com/FSC-CODE/8140/

 

[PL-52]

Thanks, several questions answered. I know somewhere along the line someone will ask me a question about what is the correct way to handle the primer issue and I want to be able to answer it as correctly as my knowledge allows or at least have a source I can point them to. Ma sure does have some strange regulations. and even stranger more confusing laws.

 

[bill o]

Thanks, several questions answered. I know somewhere along the line someone will ask me a question about what is the correct way to handle the primer issue and I want to be able to answer it as correctly as my knowledge allows or at least have a source I can point them to. Ma sure does have some strange regulations. and even stranger more confusing laws.

The best way to handle the primer issue is to just disobey the CMR. There's no authoritative source that will validate what you're looking for. Maybe write a letter to the state fire Marshall?

 

[Len-2A Training]

I don't live in Northboro (BTW)

Doh, reading comprehension failure. Regardless any city/town should issue the permit if requested, it's the FD's job to do this and I've never heard of any department refusing, just some that weren't aware and needed to contact the State Fire Marshal's Office for clarification.

ammo cans are not tightly sealed....against water maybe. If my google foo was a little stronger i might be able to find the mil spec burst pressure of a standard ammo canister. my guess is a single digit psi.

Exactly. It's my understanding that they are designed to vent at low pressure to avoid a problem. I store all my ammo this way.

as far as the conversation with the chief the hazards of all the plastics burning in your house are more likely to kill you and be dangerous vs small arms and smokeless powder.

No kidding. I spotted a house fire and went to the door to knock to make sure nobody was inside (they weren't). The fumes coming at me outside from around the windows (no fire had broken thru the structure) were almost overwhelming . . . inside you wouldn't stand a chance . . . and it was all plastics fumes.

Thanks, several questions answered. I know somewhere along the line someone will ask me a question about what is the correct way to handle the primer issue and I want to be able to answer it as correctly as my knowledge allows or at least have a source I can point them to. Ma sure does have some strange regulations. and even stranger more confusing laws.

For good legal info go to my instructor sub-forum where I post stuff like this and lock it so the "meat" is easy to find without wading thru 20 pages of comments. Second go to the stickies in the MA Legal sub-forum and check the titles, you will often times find what you are looking for if you do this. Here you go!

https://www.northeastshooters.com/vbulletin/threads/271760-MA-Ammo-Components-Storage-CMR-2015

 

[wahsben]

It's now 999 w/o permit. 527 CMR 1.0 (NOT 527 CMR 13.0 - obsolete but still cited on GOAL website).

My personal opinion (IANAL) is that primed cases are not primers, thus your assumption should work. ALL my fire chiefs have been really good guys and not worried about these technicalities. However, an insurance company on a loss could have issues with non-compliance. It is NOT a matter under police jurisdiction, which is a very good thing.

I have to wonder why you think N'boro FD would never issue a permit. They are actually required to do so and if they give you any static the next call should be to the State Fire Marshal's Office as they are in charge of this issue.

Even Boston FD issues permits, albeit the most expensive in the state but they issue them. Your cost should range from $0 to $25 and should be good for 1-5 years depending on local town and FD policies.

They charge $50 in my town for 5 yrs.

 

[PL-52]

Thanks Len, I put that on my favorites list for quick access. Lots of questions come up when more than 2 of us talk about reloading and ammo storage when I'm at the range. On top of me being overly curious , I like to be semi well informed. Seems I'll need to remember to shoot 1 more cartridge from a new box to stay under the 10,000 when I restock after my monthly range trips.

 

[swampy]

Unless it has changed, primed brass can be shipped without hazmat fees...in free states anyhow! So, it's probably considered ammo.

 

[spt_1955]

Biggest problem I had getting a permit was I had to call GOAL and fins out where the reg was. Silly us (me and Fire Dept Captain) thought it would be under explosives. We should have known it was under flammable liquids.

 

[jpm]

primers stored in bulk can set each other off if one goes, but in primed cases they can't. This is why there's different regulations for shipping them (primers are hazmat and primed cases are not, they're treated the same as ammo) and most likely that's why there's different fire dept rules for storing them.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Biggest problem I had getting a permit was I had to call GOAL and fins out where the reg was. Silly us (me and Fire Dept Captain) thought it would be under explosives. We should have known it was under flammable liquids.

Of course you could have looked in the Mass Gun Laws subforum or my subforum where the Stickies have that info. BTW, last I looked GOAL had the wrong (old) CMR. Sadly both the old and new CMRs are online, so it is easy to be confused but the FDs were notified when the new one took affect. It was my Fire Chief who told me about the change back in 2015.