President Trump gives clemency

jpk

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picton said:
NOBODY will want to work with this guy. SEALs operate on teamwork and mutual respect. If the only way you were able to keep your billet was through direct and repeated presidential intervention, well, what does that say about you?

Ostracism. It works.
ROFLMAO

Classic picton post....all leftist feelings and no facts


Gallager did at least 8 tours

Multiple commendations incl 2 bronze stars

Was a BUD/S instructor

The list goes on.....

But Picton pulls out of his arse that no one wants to work with the guy

This bullshit is what happens when leftists change the ROE like they did under Oblunder and try to have the lawyers litigate the how/what happens on a battlefield......oblunder was a poison that keeps on giving.....and we know this was his intent from day one.
 

FPrice

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So the point is since we've been subject to evil we should adopt that doctrine?
That reply is so ill-conceived and off the mark that is is worthy of the scorn of a French nobleman. You tried to claim that our POWs were treated humanely and was shut down with facts.

 

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ROFLMAO

Classic picton post....all leftist feelings and no facts


Gallager did at least 8 tours

Multiple commendations incl 2 bronze stars

Was a BUD/S instructor

The list goes on.....

But Picton pulls out of his arse that no one wants to work with the guy

This bullshit is what happens when leftists change the ROE like they did under Oblunder and try to have the lawyers litigate the how/what happens on a battlefield......oblunder was a poison that keeps on giving.....and we know this was his intent from day one.
THIS!

Thank you!

Obama poisoned everything for few decades to come. He disliked military and paid extra attention to our schools and communities. We are paying for it now.
 

Dench

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That reply is so ill-conceived and off the mark that is is worthy of the scorn of a French nobleman. You tried to claim that our POWs were treated humanely and was shut down with facts.

I never made that claim nor used that word.

If you guys don't want to talk about it it's fine. Defending POW abuse is hard. I understand that. Being a cliche republican who pays other men to commit acts of violence against other men in their country is very easy.
 

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Defending POW abuse is hard. I understand that. Being a cliche republican who pays other men to commit acts of violence against other men in their country is very easy.
As easy as idealistic armchair strategizing after the event? All I know with certainty is none of us knows the full story.
 

Dench

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As easy as idealistic armchair strategizing after the event? All I know with certainty is none of us knows the full story.
The conversation is about POW abuse. There aren't many examples of appropriate POW abuse.
 

Dench

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Cant be a POW if we're not in a state of declared war.......

Oh, and btw.....the thread is about Trump granting clemency not POW bs
I figured someone would bring this up. Mistreating people who are no longer a threat due to a legal technicality is still a poor excuse.
 

jpk

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Not so.

The military is apolitical, by inclination and by law.
picton said:
Then the answer stands. No. Officers don't get demoted by presidents.

My frustration is based on the fact that I've seen that assertion before, and by the overall tenor of some of the responses on this thread. Which amaze me. The LAST thing any of us should want is politicians interfering in the minutiae of military doctrine. Our military is the best in the world, and a big part of that is because it's traditionally apolitical.

Why would anyone want a military leadership structure that spends all its time looking over its shoulders, worrying about whether the military decisions they make (tactical, legal, operational, whichever) are going to be second-guessed by the White House? I want military leaders focusing on warfighting, training, caring for soldiers, and maintaining good order and discipline. Interference like this doesn't help.
Did you fall off the proverbial turnip truck again and hit your head?

The higher ranks in .mil are purely political wake the eff up....

The US Military is one of if not the best in the world year after year in no small part due to a lot of traditions but also the fact that we spend more money than any other nation on the planet to maintain overwelming technological superiority

Top levels of .mil serve at the whim of POTUS/CIC....always have....and they are directed by the president to lead various objectives/responsibilities/roles.......

If .mil were not political and presidents didnt take direct leadership role in .mil then we never would have had nonsense like "Dont ask, Dont tell" under Clinton, the trans gender policies of Oblunder, Drone striking US Citizens also under Oblunder, forcing the use of Bio Fuels and undermining operational readiness/increasing fuel costs over 3 times under Oblunder

This doesnt even begin to tough upon the micro management/panic/lack of management we see under Dem presidents......recall LBJ trying to micro manage VN and various bombing campaigns literally from the WH.....up thru Oblunder and his directives to change the ROE's which resulted in a lot of dead US service members and attempts to litigate what happens on the battle field by lawyers back in washington......which is the perversion that is central to Eddie Gallagher's case.....his case is not unlike Schiff's son of russiagate shenanigans......where exculpatory evidence has been denied entry into the case/hearings by judges/prosecution, rinse and repeat regarding witnesses and testimony that contradicts the proseccutions narrative....

Dont even get me started on the Benghazi bullshit under Oblunder/Clinton

Are you willfully ignorant of the historical record or just oblivious to it?
 

jpk

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I figured someone would bring this up. Mistreating people who are no longer a threat due to a legal technicality is still a poor excuse.
Are they enemy combatants, criminals to be tried in a court along side your kid for reckless driving or are they actually shitbag terrorists that enguage in arbitrary atrocities that kill/maim combatants and non combatants alike?

The answer to the above is part of the determination of how these POS get handled......dont forget that these shit bags are not members of a state/gov/org that has agreed to various treaties that govern and help prevent the atrocities we saw in WWI.

Have you forgotten that these shit bags rape/sell into slavery children and women?

The drown, burn, mutilate, decapitate anyone percieved to be in opposition to their beliefs/agenda?

these are the atrocities you seem to ignore

Dont watch this if you have a weak stomach


I'm not going to post other examples.....there's no shortage of videos these shit bags took of beheadings, drownings, burning, amputations and other atrocities they foisted on everyone that disagreed with them.

Everyone recall the near genocide of the Yazidi's that Oblunder just sat back and let happen?

Dont ever forget for a moment what these shit bags intend for anyone that has a different way of life than they do.
 
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Dench

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Are they enemy combatants, criminals to be tried in a court along side your kid for reckless driving or are they actually shitbag terrorists that enguage in arbitrary atrocities that kill/maim combatants and non combatants alike?

The answer to the above is part of the determination of how these POS get handled......dont forget that these shit bags are not members of a state/gov/org that has agreed to various treaties that govern and help prevent the atrocities we saw in WWI.

Have you forgotten that these shit bags rape/sell into slavery children and women?

The drown, burn, mutilate, decapitate anyone percieved to be in opposition to their beliefs/agenda?

these are the atrocities you seem to ignore

Dont watch this if you have a weak stomach


I'm not going to post other examples.....there's no shortage of videos these shit bags took of beheadings, drownings, burning, amputations and other atrocities they foisted on everyone that disagreed with them.

Everyone recall the near genocide of the Yazidi's that Oblunder just sat back and let happen?

Dont ever forget for a moment what these shit bags intend for anyone that has a different way of life than they do.
They are enemy combatants. Which wouldn't be tried along side my kid for reckless driving, since they'd be under the jurisdiction of a military tribunal.

No, I havent forgotten. ISIS made a name for itself until the CIA decided they didnt need them anymore. Rape unfortunately is a feature of every war, and ISIS partaking it in holds no significance as it's the norm. That said it still should be prosecuted and punished. But by no means is it remarkable.

Neither is bizarre executions or tourture. That's another fairly common theme in war (which members here support when it's the US doing it to the enemy). These cases also need to be investigated and tried.

I don't ignore them. I fully support them facing justice.

And yes, the Yazidis were failed. Just like the US failed the entire region in 1991 when they let Saddam attack the North post Gulf War despite the US saying they would protect the North who have mostly been Western allies.

Let's not forget todays news: The Syrian Kurds, who Trump green lighted the Turkish invasion into Kurdish Syria. These people have worked very hard against ISIS and other bad players in the region. And our "ally" was given the blessing by President Trump to go on in and clear the place out. Is anyone here talking about that? Or does partisan politics still become the ultimate goal post mover? We bash Obama's failure from 6 years ago while we ignore Trumps with nearly identical circumstances today.


Fear has a lot of people willing to do a lot of bullshit on both sides.
 

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cross posted, but important enough


Navy secretary spencer fired for defying President Trumps clemency order
 

Picton

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cross posted, but important enough


Navy secretary spencer fired for defying President Trumps clemency order
Interesting. I wonder who leaked what happened in the Oval Office with the SecNav. Was it Esper himself?
 

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Interesting. I wonder who leaked what happened in the Oval Office with the SecNav. Was it Esper himself?
I would venture yes, or that Spencer did it because he wanted the press to make a stink about it.

View: https://twitter.com/JackPosobiec/status/1198753842495737856


Posobiec was a former navy intel guy, so I think there's probably going to be a shitstorm between the professionals and the politicians (.mil version of the Deep State) within the navy's command structure.

View: https://twitter.com/ArthurSchwartz/status/1198743255816589318


Another cross-post:

Defense Secretary Mark T. Esper asked for the resignation of Navy Secretary Richard V. Spencer on Sunday after losing confidence in him over his handling of the case of a Navy SEAL accused of war crimes in Iraq, the Pentagon said.
Spencer’s resignation came in the wake of the controversial case of Chief Petty Officer Edward Gallagher, a Navy SEAL who was accused of war crimes on a 2017 deployment. He was acquitted of murder but convicted in July of posing with the corpse of a captive.
Esper asked for Spencer’s resignation after learning that he had privately proposed to White House officials that if they did not interfere with proceedings against Gallagher, then Spencer would ensure that Gallagher was able to retire as a Navy SEAL, with his Trident insignia.
Spencer’s private proposal to the White House — which he did not share with Esper over the course of several conversations about the matter — contradicted his public position on the Gallagher case, chief Pentagon spokesman Jonathan Hoffman said in a statement.
View: https://twitter.com/Cernovich/status/1198730609696264193
View: https://twitter.com/Cernovich/status/1198731338863394816
View: https://twitter.com/RealSaavedra/status/1198721881391525888


 
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Reactions: TLB

jct61765

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The conversation is about POW abuse. There aren't many examples of appropriate POW abuse.
When has the United States mistreated pow’s? Do you mean terrorists? A soldier wears a uniform, he would could be a pow. What does this have to do with president trump pardoning a navy seal?
 

Dench

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When has the United States mistreated pow’s? Do you mean terrorists? A soldier wears a uniform, he would could be a pow. What does this have to do with president trump pardoning a navy seal?
Enemy combatant
 

10thSFFD

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They are enemy combatants. Which wouldn't be tried along side my kid for reckless driving, since they'd be under the jurisdiction of a military tribunal.

No, I havent forgotten. ISIS made a name for itself until the CIA decided they didnt need them anymore. Rape unfortunately is a feature of every war, and ISIS partaking it in holds no significance as it's the norm. That said it still should be prosecuted and punished. But by no means is it remarkable.

Neither is bizarre executions or tourture. That's another fairly common theme in war (which members here support when it's the US doing it to the enemy). These cases also need to be investigated and tried.

I don't ignore them. I fully support them facing justice.

And yes, the Yazidis were failed. Just like the US failed the entire region in 1991 when they let Saddam attack the North post Gulf War despite the US saying they would protect the North who have mostly been Western allies.

Let's not forget todays news: The Syrian Kurds, who Trump green lighted the Turkish invasion into Kurdish Syria. These people have worked very hard against ISIS and other bad players in the region. And our "ally" was given the blessing by President Trump to go on in and clear the place out. Is anyone here talking about that? Or does partisan politics still become the ultimate goal post mover? We bash Obama's failure from 6 years ago while we ignore Trumps with nearly identical circumstances today.


Fear has a lot of people willing to do a lot of bullshit on both sides.

View: https://youtu.be/g1SjNbCriNA
 
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blindfire

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It really matters not. The SEALS will sort this matter out themselves. "The Navy follows lawful orders"
The problem is, Trump just emasculated the SEAL community by overriding their ability to police their own with regard to who can wear the Trident. Will be interesting to see what that does to SPECOPS morale. If I were Gallagher, I'd never deploy with a SEAL unit again. Weird things can happen in combat.
 

Dench

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The problem is, Trump just emasculated the SEAL community by overriding their ability to police their own with regard to who can wear the Trident. Will be interesting to see what that does to SPECOPS morale. If I were Gallagher, I'd never deploy with a SEAL unit again. Weird things can happen in combat.
Trumps military experience guided him to make his decision.
 

Dench

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[rofl] [rofl] [rofl]
You've been hanging around us for quite some time already. You should understand the bulldozer by now.
GOD BLESS OUR PRESIDENT! He is doing what we were suppose to do in the last century!
I like the part where he bans firearms parts with no grandfather clause due to one incident. Clearly a visionary of common sense.

He drew up that ban idea from his experience in small arms. Which is slightly under his military experience. We could only dream.
 

n1oty

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The problem is, Trump just emasculated the SEAL community by overriding their ability to police their own with regard to who can wear the Trident. Will be interesting to see what that does to SPECOPS morale. If I were Gallagher, I'd never deploy with a SEAL unit again. Weird things can happen in combat.
I doubt that the active Seals care one way or the other at this point because they know Gallagher is about to retire, so he is not going back to a team. I think the Seals have a much bigger problem in their midst. I have read information that says somewhere near 200 Seals have been kicked out of the teams in the past eight years. If so, that means that roughly 1 out of every 5 or 6 Seals is losing his trident in a somewhat short span of time for disciplinary reasons.
 
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