Pregnant woman killed in Walnut Hills shooting: What would you do?

[Picton]

See, now, a trach is something I'd feel comfortable doing. You just never know.

But I still wouldn't. I learned to do it in the Army, but I'm not in the Army anymore. I felt an obligation to save fellow soldiers. But I don't feel that obligation anymore for my fellow citizens, who've got the same capabilities I've got.

Again, I'm booking it out the exit with my kin.

 

[MisterHappy]

Honestly, the basic first aid/CPR courses are just to give you the "permission" to do something, as something may be better than nothing.

I've taken several FA/CPR courses, and have to say that they're...lightweight. One was a "blended" course, where chest compressions were taught with mouse clicks.

 

[mpd61]

I can't believe this thing is already three pages long.......LOL!

 

[enbloc]

The real questions is: "What if it was Hitler's mother...?"

 

[Racenet]

The big thing about CPR is, depending on who teaches it, they have really simplified it. Hum "Staying Alive", push down on the beat. You can always switch off if you can talk someone else through it. I doubt CPR would trigger a law suit since 911 dispatchers can talk you through it, if all else fails, call 911 and have the operator on the phone telling you what to do to cover you if your cert is expired. The cert is just nice to have. But from what I've heard, without a defibrillator nearby, it's going to be a workout. Last class I went to didn't even mention rescue breathing, the chest compression will move air through the lungs.

Those nose tubes are getting a lot of mention in our IFAIK classes. Seems they work, keeping airway open. No personal experience. Thank God.

Hopefully you didn't have to pay for that class, because the instructors are retarded. Sure, the compression will move a little through the lungs, but not even a fraction of what is required. Following their method is just a fruitless waste of time.

 

[weekendracer]

Hopefully you didn't have to pay for that class, because the instructors are retarded. Sure, the compression will move a little through the lungs, but not even a fraction of what is required. Following their method is just a fruitless waste of time.

Been through several different classes, some teach breathing, last 2 didn't. I don't teach the class, I just have to sit through it.

 

[Picton]

Yeah, my last recertification didn’t teach breathing, either.

 

[Reptile]

I recall reading a published account about a real-life case where this exact scenario happened. I don't remember when and I don't remember where, but - if I recall correctly - I first read about it in the year 2000 (in either JEMS, or Firehouse, or Fire Engineering, I think). IIRC, the Mom was dead, having suffered a trauma, and the person on scene - who was NOT a surgeon - decided to save the baby (surgically). End result? The baby lived, and was perfectly fine, so the grateful father sued the person (who'd saved the life of the baby). No good deed goes unpunished.

That's a nightmare scenario.

Let me ask this...

If the bystander knew ahead of time that he was going to be sued by the father for delivering a healthy baby - would he chose not to save the baby?

That is a binary choice. Save baby - get sued. Let baby die - don't get sued.

If I knew (magically) that the baby would come out healthy and lead a productive life - I would risk getting sued.

I might even consider sacrificing my own life to save a baby. (Knowing they would become a productive member of society would make that choice easier.)

I have family members that I would give my life for. Even a few acquaintances. I'm getting old.

Knowing the child would lead a good life would make it easier - but you'll never know.

Of course if the process of saving a life would be extremely painful I would be less inclined.

It seems to me that school teachers have an unwritten law that they must do anything to save their kids. If you would rather hide in a closet than save you class from a school shooter - you should not be a teacher.

 

[cams]

This is the most fudged up hypothetical situation I’ve ever been asked about.

No. My luck what would happen is:
1) the woman is just fat and I’m making a mess for nothing
2) I stab the baby and wind up being charged with either murder or practicing medicine without a license
3) I’d somehow wind up financially responsible for the baby
4) I’d be charged with contaminating a crime scene.


I honestly can’t see where I could make this situation better. For the baby or myself. But it is a good reason to carry a pocketknife if you’re more medically inclined than me.

5) You get halfway through and the cops show up, think you’re a zombie disemboweling somebody, fire 57 rounds at you, only striking you in the ass once, then beat you with sticks like Rodney King. So now you’re limping into court with a second ass ‘hole’, a feeding tube, and a face mask on so you can’t bite anybody else or even speak to proclaim your innocence.

This would be my luck. f*** that. I’m outta there before the cops come.

 

[Picton]

That's a nightmare scenario.

Let me ask this...

If the bystander knew ahead of time that he was going to be sued by the father for delivering a healthy baby - would he chose not to save the baby?

That is a binary choice. Save baby - get sued. Let baby die - don't get sued.

If I knew (magically) that the baby would come out healthy and lead a productive life - I would risk getting sued.

I might even consider sacrificing my own life to save a baby. (Knowing they would become a productive member of society would make that choice easier.)

I have family members that I would give my life for. Even a few acquaintances. I'm getting old.

Knowing the child would lead a good life would make it easier - but you'll never know.

Of course if the process of saving a life would be extremely painful I would be less inclined.

It seems to me that school teachers have an unwritten law that they must do anything to save their kids. If you would rather hide in a closet than save you class from a school shooter - you should not be a teacher.

But this is what you're not understanding: this isn't binary. If you're inclined to be a hero, do so by getting the patient into your backseat and hauling ass to the hospital. That's the right choice, in spades, for you and people like you.

We have this whole system of people whose ENTIRE JOB is to assess and deal with exactly this kind of issue, and we're lucky enough to live in a part of the world where they're all over the place. They have job titles like doctor, paramedic, trauma nurse, stuff like that, and they're just a phone call away.

Why do you want that responsibility? You're WAY overthinking this, I think. "Would the child lead a good life?" Why is that any part of your OODA loop? When I put it that way, doesn't it sound a bit much?

With that kind of shit going through your mind, I don't want you cutting on my wife and fetus. Bottom line. Call 911. Please.

 

[drgrant]

Because he's made up some improbable scenario in his head that sounds like it came out of some movie like "the happening".


View: https://youtu.be/2Iz4D9kBIas

 

[Fixxah]

Good to know. I've been concerned about having to do a tracheotomy - no I won't have to (no training).

I think I'll be carrying my ankle med kit more often. At least I can use at Cat tourniquet and have practiced using it in many classes.

I think I'd benefit from a CPR recertification - I never knew people can survive after prolonged CPR.

I'd end up having a heart attack myself if I had to do it for a long time, but if I had a partner or two - we could keep doing it until EMS shows up.


After a really traumatic incident where things went as good as they could go - a citizen may benefit from some sort of counseling after.
LEO and EMS have debriefing meetings so they can cope better.

Even Massad Ayoob suggested to seek counseling if you need it before you develop a really bad case of PTSD. There are some professionals who specialize in such rather than your average therapist.

I don't think your average citizen is as well equipped to deal with the after effects of trauma as a seasoned police officer.

You might want to try a self-vasectomy before opening up someone else. Just sayin.

 

[jaypap]

I say go for it. Maybe you could adopt the kid or at least take him fishing & shooting once and a while. Like a big brother thing.

 

[NewGuyRay]

I can't believe this thing is already three pages long.......LOL!

So does three pages of comments mean this was a serious question? I had my doubts.

I don't play God or a hero on TV or in real life. Nor did I stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night, so...

Without an unfulfilled hero complex, I just cannot see the upside in intervening in such a scenario. It would be tragic for the baby to dies also. However, the possible negative outcomes are too numerous when contrasted with the minimal potential for a positive outcome -- especially with how little value today's culture puts on human life.

if OP is jonesing that badly to quench a hero complex, go set a neighbor's front porch on fire and then put out said fire. I'm sure the neighbor will be quite grateful. Even this scenario would have a better risk/reward ratio than the original topic. Or maybe you could shoot a homeless guy in the leg and put your tourniquet to use.

 

[Reptile]

Definitely not a hero here.
I hope never to have to do CPR due to my lack of fitness.

If there is an active shooter I plan to get my kin and myself out of there as soon as possible.

If I had a pregnant wife who was about to give birth and she got decapitated on the way to the hospital- I’d do my best to get the baby out.

In the event of a person I don’t know, I won’t play doctor.

I’ll call 911 and do what they say.

I can’t stress enough that I don’t have a hero complex. After all the legal classes I took I know that my responsibility is to myself and my family only.

 

[Wendell]

That's a nightmare scenario. Let me ask this...If the bystander knew ahead of time that he was going to be sued by the father for delivering a healthy baby - would he chose not to save the baby? That is a binary choice. Save baby - get sued. Let baby die - don't get sued. If I knew (magically) that the baby would come out healthy and lead a productive life - I would risk getting sued. I might even consider sacrificing my own life to save a baby. (Knowing they would become a productive member of society would make that choice easier.

The case to which I referred was not so simple. In addition to being sued, the life-saving 'surgeon' also lost his career as a direct consequence of his decision (to conduct surgery). Oh, he saved one life, sure, but what was the opportunity cost of his losing his chosen career? How many lives could he have made better, how many lives could he have helped, how many lives could he have saved (later) had he stayed in his lane, kept his career, and lived his life per his original plan?

Like I said, not so simple.

 

[Chevy 2 65]

I recall reading a published account about a real-life case where this exact scenario happened. I don't remember when and I don't remember where, but - if I recall correctly - I first read about it in the year 2000 (in either JEMS, or Firehouse, or Fire Engineering, I think). IIRC, the Mom was dead, having suffered a trauma, and the person on scene - who was NOT a surgeon - decided to save the baby (surgically). End result? The baby lived, and was perfectly fine, so the grateful father sued the person (who'd saved the life of the baby). No good deed goes unpunished.

Because he did not want to be a father.