Pre-Healey Madness

[dw617]

"It shoots .223 AND 5.56!"

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

The AGO knows their BS is just that - BS. They are dragging it out as long as they can, refusing to answer questions ("Use your judgement") as they know the faster we get their stance in writing the faster we can attack it. Trying to put as many dealers out of business as they can:

Add to this you have AG spies and dealers ratting other dealers out and it's a sh*t sandwich for everyone.

Problem is the AG contradicts themselves.

Edict comes out "all post 94 Ars etc are illegal! bweah!" Then says "well, we won't prosecute you if it was owned before the edict date". Well which is it? make up your mind you stupid tyrant c***!

It's just a pile of shit. I would think anyone afraid of their own shadow that "didnt want to have to worry about that" would be sticking to pre94 guns, not just the "but we promise we wont prosecute you, even though I just said the gun was illegal 10 minutes ago" guns...



I don't even know its that so much as it is most of these people normally only buy guns at retail. (I know tons of people with LTCs that have never privately bought or sold a gun in their life) And retail in MA with dealers are going to be only "pre edict" and many are only doing "pre 94" as well. This "depiction" of "policy as law" has newbs thinking that it "actually is the law" as a form of brain disease.

-Mike

 

[Dennis in MA]

Yep. While it may not fall on you as an individual, the AG's bullspit is every bit real to dealers.

Wanna know what I wanna know - why do you never see a Gen1 Glock anymore??? Did everyone trade them in for new frames from Glock or something??? Obviously there are more Gen2 than Gen1 out there. But is it really 20:1 or 30:1 which is how it seems on the XC?

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

Yep. While it may not fall on you as an individual, the AG's bullspit is every bit real to dealers.

Wanna know what I wanna know - why do you never see a Gen1 Glock anymore??? Did everyone trade them in for new frames from Glock or something??? Obviously there are more Gen2 than Gen1 out there. But is it really 20:1 or 30:1 which is how it seems on the XC?

Because they bring big money these days as people have decided they're "collectible". I've seen them on GB for over $700.

 

[daekken]

Wanna know what I wanna know - why do you never see a Gen1 Glock anymore??? Did everyone trade them in for new frames from Glock or something???

For starters Gen 1 hit the US in 1984 and they came out with Gen 2 in 1988. So only four years, versus the 10 years or so of each subsequent generation. Plus, I would presume, there was still a lot of bias against polymer so I imagine not too many sold relatively to later iterations.

Gen 1 is pretty much a collector piece at this point.

 

[drgrant]

Wanna know what I wanna know - why do you never see a Gen1 Glock anymore??? Did everyone trade them in for new frames from Glock or something??? Obviously there are more Gen2 than Gen1 out there. But is it really 20:1 or 30:1 which is how it seems on the XC?

Gen1 isn't great production # wise and it's only a few models. The 17 is more common than the others in Gen1 trim. I'm sure if the frames got compromised glock dumped them over the years on in-transit upgrades, and collectors and so on have them now. They're more of a weirdball almost pseudo-collectors item than a commonly flipped gun at this point.

-Mike

 

[ReluctantDecoy]

This is how I generally feel, but there's something distastefully lawyer in nature about trying to game legal grey area (I say grey area because while not true law you can still get legally dicked down with legal fees) that isn't actually legal grey area that just rubs me wrong.

That right there would be my fear. Yes, one might be in the right, but the process of defending yourself in court will end up costing time, money and aggravation. So even when one wins, they still kind of lose. I still don't agree buying pre-Healy markups though, and I feel that marking items like SCAR's "pre-Healy" for jack up their already ridiculous pricing to uneducated buyers is a dirty move.

 

[drgrant]

The AGO knows their BS is just that - BS. They are dragging it out as long as they can, refusing to answer questions ("Use your judgement") as they know the faster we get their stance in writing the faster we can attack it. Trying to put as many dealers out of business as they can:

Add to this you have AG spies and dealers ratting other dealers out and it's a sh*t sandwich for everyone.

Yes! ...and it doesn't help that EOPS is playing rubby bums with the AGs office and both of them are basically feeding the ATF -that- shit sandwich about the laws and apparently they "believe it like its factual". Of course this is what happens when the AGs in most of the US normally act in good faith, feds think that that they're not getting lied to, etc.

-Mike

 

[Whiskeywon]

The AGO knows their BS is just that - BS. They are dragging it out as long as they can, refusing to answer questions ("Use your judgement") as they know the faster we get their stance in writing the faster we can attack it. Trying to put as many dealers out of business as they can:

Add to this you have AG spies and dealers ratting other dealers out and it's a sh*t sandwich for everyone.

This behavior is repulsive. Neil Gorsuch summed this up very nicely lately with “a vague law is no law at all.” Hopefully they get smacked down by the courts still

For starters Gen 1 hit the US in 1984 and they came out with Gen 2 in 1988. So only four years, versus the 10 years or so of each subsequent generation. Plus, I would presume, there was still a lot of bias against polymer so I imagine not too many sold relatively to later iterations.

Gen 1 is pretty much a collector piece at this point.

I believe the phrase is vintage. The sale of collectible glocks is a joke like that other post I had with the engraved gold/silver glocks.

 

[drgrant]

That right there would be my fear. Yes, one might be in the right, but the process of defending yourself in court will end up costing time, money and aggravation.

The AG isn't going to go crim on this vs peons because then it runs the risk of exposing the whole facade. It's easier (and more beneficial) for them to sow fear, uncertainty and doubt and punish dealers administratively. They don't have to prove they're right in a court of law to simply shut down a dealer, especially if a dealer isn't going willing to go to the next level, legally. It's "law via goebbels effect" at its finest. EG: "If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. "

-Mike

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

The AG isn't going to go crim on this vs peons because then it runs the risk of exposing the whole facade. It's easier (and more beneficial) for them to sow fear, uncertainty and doubt and punish dealers administratively. They don't have to prove they're right in a court of law to simply shut down a dealer, especially if a dealer isn't going willing to go to the next level, legally. It's "law via goebbels effect" at its finest. EG: "If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. "

-Mike

Spot on.

 

[daekken]

I believe the phrase is vintage. The sale of collectible glocks is a joke like that other post I had with the engraved gold/silver glocks.

I would respectfully disagree. While they may not be to your or my tastes, there's absolutely people who purchase/collect the different generations and definitely spend more on, say, a Gen 1 G19 than what a Gen 5 would cost. People buy Gen 1s and keep them in a safe. Waste of money to me, but collectible nonetheless.

 

[mac1911]

Yeah itsa pita but honestly if someone could be a broker between sellers and the buyers willing to pay pre pre pre ban-ish stuff they could make a few bucks.
I have a box full of so called " pre Helly" stuff Im thinking of getting rid of...just dont want to deal with the buyers.

 

[Dadstoys]

I don't know , ripping off someone uneducated isn't what I would call capitalism.
Asshattery would be a more descriptive term.
The old man and I got offered a pristine Parker double some woman found in the closet after her husband passed , for free.
Wonder if I would have gotten a round of applause if I posted here I had kept my mouth shut and took it from her.
Instead we took it to a dealer and put it up for consignment for her.
I believe in Karma.

 

[drgrant]

I don't know , ripping off someone uneducated isn't what I would call capitalism.
Asshattery would be a more descriptive term.
The old man and I got offered a pristine Parker double some woman found in the closet after her husband passed , for free.
Wonder if I would have gotten a round of applause if I posted here I had kept my mouth shut and took it from her.
Instead we took it to a dealer and put it up for consignment for her.
I believe in Karma.

What isn't capitalism about it? Nobody is forcing the person to buy it.

Your analogy is flawed, big differences between some guy selling an overpriced gun vs taking advantage of the kindness of a widow.

 

[Whiskeywon]

I would respectfully disagree. While they may not be to your or my tastes, there's absolutely people who purchase/collect the different generations and definitely spend more on, say, a Gen 1 G19 than what a Gen 5 would cost. People buy Gen 1s and keep them in a safe. Waste of money to me, but collectible nonetheless.

Hey! I didn’t say they didn’t have value or a market. I said it was a joke. but I get what you mean. I can wrap my head around the gen 1 and what not as reference because it’s really no different than collecting service guns, but not the 5,000$ for the engraved glock (don’t hate expensive or engraved guns, just engraved glock is like having a gold plated screwdriver. It just isn’t there same way it’s not there for 3,000 “custom” glocks.That being said I could still be friends with somebody who collected engraved glocks, I’d just rib you to death about your bad taste.

 

[Dadstoys]

What isn't capitalism about it? Nobody is forcing the person to buy it.

Your analogy is flawed, big differences between some guy selling an overpriced gun vs taking advantage of the kindness of a widow.

We'll agree to disagree .
If someone knows better and still agrees to a higher price that's one thing.
There is no difference in my mind on praying on someone's ignorance .
I could have told myself that the old gal should have done her homework so screw her.
I don't see the honor in behaving like that towards anyone.
Not everyone lives and breathes this stuff like a lot of us here.

 

[TomMontana]

You would be a fool to not label your for sale AR as pre-Healey. That's a commonly accepted marketing term now on NES. The guys willing to pay $1,000+ for an Anderson+AR Stoner combos are not getting ripped off. They're meatballs for sure, but that's the premium they're willing to pay for being late to the show.

 

[Whiskeywon]

You would be a fool to not label your for sale AR as pre-Healey. That's a commonly accepted marketing term now on NES. The guys willing to pay $1,000+ for an Anderson+AR Stoner combos are not getting ripped off. They're meatballs for sure, but that's the premium they're willing to pay for being late to the show.

While I think there’s disagreement about the law or lack there of currently. There hasn’t been much about the prehealey label on true name “banned” firearms. This post was mainly about the ones that aren’t named and yet still some label to fetch a premium that doesn’t actually belong.

 

[DTOM537]

I am getting sick of seeing gen 5 Glock 19’s for sale for 850$.... I mean come on, u can almost get 2 for that price or 43’s for 700 lol I mean are people actually paying these prices ??

 

[exo]

So, does this mean y’all don’t wanna buy my organic free range gluten and cruelty free non GMO boutique Glock 19 for $1995?

 

[TomMontana]

While I think there’s disagreement about the law or lack there of currently. There hasn’t been much about the prehealey label on true name “banned” firearms. This post was mainly about the ones that aren’t named and yet still some label to fetch a premium that doesn’t actually belong.

Other than AR15s, I bet most people wouldn't know what firearms were named in Healey's notice. At this point, "Pre-Healey" probably means "You're good to go if you buy this. It was transferred before the Summer of 2016." and applicable to any black looking rifle. I'm going to list my Pre-Healey 10/22 for $700. Please don't poop on my listing in the classifieds.

 

[AHM]

It was like seeing the $950 glock 27s with the lasermax and the punisher slide plate on the back and oversized chrome slide stop

Spoiler: Punisher parlor rifle

You know... I was so distracted by the poo-stipple job that I didn't see the little gun penis sticking out without the trigger guard. Now I feel extra stupid. hahaha I'm guessing it's a joke though unlike the garbage ads we've been talking about on this post.

Gun is just moderately glad to see you.

 

[Boston4567]

Are there any threads out there that seriously analyze the legal merit of Healey's BS from a state law perspective? I have thoughts but don't want to hijack this thread...

 

[whacko]

Adding pre-healey, rare in MA, Hillery’s coming, etc, allows the seller to up the price of a 400.00 firearm to about 1500.00.

Capitalizing on the everyday fear mongering that goes on and raking not so experienced buyers over the coals.

Let the buyer beware.

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

Are there any threads out there that seriously analyze the legal merit of Healey's BS from a state law perspective? I have thoughts but don't want to hijack this thread...

Read the posts above - the problem isn't whether her obviously wrong interpretation is right or wrong, it's that she uses her unlimited power/budget/time to strongarm dealers into compliance (or for her ultimate goal - to put them out of business).

Having said that there are a few old threads on it, the 7/20 megathread and the lawsuit threads (search Worman, Pullman).

Search Results for Query: 7/20 | Northeastshooters.com Forums

Worman v. Baker - Commonwealth Second Amendment, Inc. (comm2a.org)

 

[Thirwell1216]

Just wait until the next cycle of POTUS to the dems to get the real confusion going. Something like a Bushmaster AR from 1987 will be listed as: Pre-89 Bush, Pre-94 Clinton, Pre-Romney, Pre-Healy, Pre..(name your next Dem) Ban gun....$5000.

 

[Boston4567]

Read the posts above - the problem isn't whether her obviously wrong interpretation is right or wrong, it's that she uses her unlimited power/budget/time to strongarm dealers into compliance (or for her ultimate goal - to put them out of business).

Having said that there are a few old threads on it, the 7/20 megathread and the lawsuit threads (search Worman, Pullman).

Search Results for Query: 7/20 | Northeastshooters.com Forums

Worman v. Baker - Commonwealth Second Amendment, Inc. (comm2a.org)

I'm asking for something very specific here - you're describing a moral wrong but not a legal cause of action, the Comm2a lawsuit addresses federal constitutional violations, and not much else I can find seriously addresses the validity of her BS from a state law perspective. This is what the Baystate / CCGW lawsuit is about. It's a much closer call than it's being made out to be here.

 

[Mountain]

Would this thread be a good place to post links to my WTS add for a Pre-Healy O/U and a Pre-Healy rare in Mass 80% lower?

https://westernrifleshooters.files.wordpress.com/2016/08/guns21.jpg

 

[Behind Enemy Lines]

I'm asking for something very specific here - you're describing a moral wrong but not a legal cause of action, the Comm2a lawsuit addresses federal constitutional violations, and not much else I can find seriously addresses the validity of her BS from a state law perspective. This is what the Baystate / CCGW lawsuit is about. It's a much closer call than it's being made out to be here.

At the bottom of the Comm2a is a link to the Pullman v Healey suit info which is more narrow in it's focus.