Pre ban firearms shipped to mass. Okay?

[easyrider1081]

I have been wanting a HK SP89 for some time but the ones for sale in this state fetch a premium. If I buy one from out of state and it is preban my understanding is that it would be good to go for a local FFL to transfer said firearm to me. Anyone object?
I am sure this was touched upon at one point of another but any solid info would be great.
Thanks Phil

 

[LuvDog]

The only way to know is to call your FFL

 

[DW357]

The only way to know is to call your FFL

This. Some dealers will transfer it and some won't (don't post their names here). Some believe the gun needed to be registered in MA before the 94 ban and some dealers believe that the rifle needed to be made before 94...

 

[easyrider1081]

I would not publish any shops that would do this even though it is withing the law. But I contacted a shop that is selling one on gunbroker out of our free state to the north and he's under the understanding that it could not be transferred to me here in wonderful Massachusetts. The gun is indeed preban since it was manufactured in 1990

 

[ranger4-7]

I swear I am always puzzled by the nuances of what can be legally transferred in this state. It is my understanding that as a pistol, the SP89 is subject to dealer transfer rules set forth both in law, and under the AG regs. For the AG, they allow a dealer to transfer a non-approved pistol, if it was manufactured prior to 1998. However state law only allows a dealer to transfer a pistol, not on the approved roster, if it was owned by a licensed Mass resident prior to 1998. So in this case, if the OP wants to buy an SP89 from out of state, wouldn't the dealer run up against the state law requiring proof of in state ownership prior to '98?

I was referencing the info found in the GOAL web pages, found here: http://goal.org/handgunsales.html

Do I have this wrong (wouldn't surprise me if I do).

 

[MichaelJames1971]

I swear I am always puzzled by the nuances of what can be legally transferred in this state. It is my understanding that as a pistol, the SP89 is subject to dealer transfer rules set forth both in law, and under the AG regs. For the AG, they allow a dealer to transfer a non-approved pistol, if it was manufactured prior to 1998. However state law only allows a dealer to transfer a pistol, not on the approved roster, if it was owned by a licensed Mass resident prior to 1998. So in this case, if the OP wants to buy an SP89 from out of state, wouldn't the dealer run up against the state law requiring proof of in state ownership prior to '98?

I was referencing the info found in the GOAL web pages, found here: http://goal.org/handgunsales.html

Do I have this wrong (wouldn't surprise me if I do).

This only makes sense if no one moved to MA with non-list guns in their possession after 1998....and we all know that to be untrue.

There are folks moving to MA 'today' with non-list guns in their inventory, how would they ever transfer them in the future?

 

[ranger4-7]

This only makes sense if no one moved to MA with non-list guns in their possession after 1998....and we all know that to be untrue.

There are folks moving to MA 'today' with non-list guns in their inventory, how would they ever transfer them in the future?

Private/face to face sales are not impacted by these Regs, only dealer transfers.

 

[MichaelJames1971]

Private/face to face sales are not impacted by these Regs, only dealer transfers.

So, if I move to MA in, say 2007 with non-list guns, the dealers won't touch them? Not-once has anyone ever asked me when I became a MA resident for any transaction....

 

[ranger4-7]

So, if I move to MA in, say 2007 with non-list guns, the dealers won't touch them? Not-once has anyone ever asked me when I became a MA resident for any transaction....

As always, depends upon the dealer. I've had some do the transfer with no questions asked, and some wouldn't touch them without evidence that I or some other mass resident owned them prior to the cut-off. Just like Glocks. Some dealers openly sold them to non-LEOs, as they were on the approved roster, and some wouldn't. Once a couple of dealers got smacked hard for selling them to us mere mortals known as civilians, the practice pretty much stopped.

 

[cmacclel]

So, if I move to MA in, say 2007 with non-list guns, the dealers won't touch them? Not-once has anyone ever asked me when I became a MA resident for any transaction....

All the dealers I know will only transfer a Pre 98 pistol only if you have a copy of the original receipt or transfer. Preban rifles are different.

 

[Drix]

AFAIK: Pre-Roster hand guns colloquially need to have been registered in MA before the roster took effect, I do not believe this wording is in the actual CMR regs but is a way to limit liability on the FFL doing the transfer (I honestly 4s was the first to make this up and everybody else just sort of followed suit). If a handgun was manufactured before the registry, I believe it is by default exempt. For rifles, any rifle manufactured before 1994 is considered preban and exempt from the AWB, the latest version of the guidance states that for a FFL to transfer a post 94 and pre-7/20 rifle, proof needs to be on hand that it was in the state after 1994 and before 7/20. Post 7/20 rifles are verboten.


Rifle in this case should mean "assault weapon"

 

[ranger4-7]

drgrant actually has a great FAQ on this topic (and has answered similar questions numerous times). Here is a great summary of the rules related to dealer transfers of handguns:

"In the most basic terms, there are really FIVE categories of MA handgun compliance at the dealer level:

1. Handgun is currently "MA compliant" on EOPS roster and AG's regs. EG- the stuff you see new in most MA gun stores.... S+W M+P, SW1911s, etc, etc, etc... law is must be on roster plus be (somehow) compliant with the AG's insane regulations.

2. Handgun is currently listed on new EOPS Target Roster (see below for current URL)

3. Pre 98 documented - (eg, owner has paperwork showing it was owned/registered in MA before 10/21/98) = completely exempt from AG and EOPS regs. Doesn't matter what the handgun is, etc, as long as that paperwork is there. Also doesn't matter WHERE the handgun currently is either, as long as the paperwork is there. I once had a friend of mine that moved out of MA but had "MA guns" with paperwork intact. He could still transfer them back in the state to a new MA owner, because they were "registered and in the state on/before 10/21/98".

4. Pre 98 on EOPS roster but AG exempt - handgun is on EOPS roster and exempted from AG's regs, by virtue of having been manufactured before 10/21/98. Example here is a typical Glock made before 10/21/98.

5. handgun is on EOPS roster but buyer is a LEO. This situation exempts the dealer from the AG's regs because the customer is a LEO. In this case it doesn't matter when the gun was made, only that the gun was tested and put on the roster.

Edit: Some readers may be wondering what any guns that don't fit into these categories are... the answer is. they're not "MA compliant" by either the AG''s or EOPS regs, or only by EOPS and not the AG's regs... but it should be noted that "MA compliance" is an issue of dealer transfers and has nothing to do with individual possession or private sale. EG- mere possession of a noncompliant handgun, is NOT a criminal offense. This can't be stated enough, as many in MA improperly use terms like "illegal in MA" or "banned in MA" to describe a handgun which a dealer cannot sell or transfer."


Here is the link to the FAQ:
http://www.northeastshooters.com/vbulletin/threads/37553-MA-Handgun-Compliance-Q-A-Thread-(new)

 

[tencara]

However state law only allows a dealer to transfer a pistol, not on the approved roster, if it was owned by a licensed Mass resident prior to 1998.

The H&K SP89 is on the MA Approved Roster - Large Capacity.

 

[ranger4-7]

The H&K SP89 is on the MA Approved Roster - Large Capacity.

Are you referring to this roster, which simply identifies firearms as being high capacity? http://www.mass.gov/eopss/docs/chsb/firearms/large-capacity-roster-06-2011.pdf

I could be mistaken, but I don't believe that means that they are approved. I believe it simply serves as a means of identifying which firearms fall into that category. That is important, in this state, as licensing is specific to high capacity vs. non-high capacity.

It is my understanding that the only published roster of approved handguns is the this one: http://www.mass.gov/eopss/docs/chsb/firearms/approvedfirearmsroster10-2016.pdf

The SP89 is not on that roster.

 

[drgrant]

The H&K SP89 is on the MA Approved Roster - Large Capacity.

That roster is completely worthless/irrelevant and has nothing to do with what the OP is trying to do.

-Mike

 

[gunofthrones]

This. Some dealers will transfer it and some won't (don't post their names here). Some believe the gun needed to be registered in MA before the 94 ban and some dealers believe that the rifle needed to be made before 94...

Do post the ones that won't accept preban weapons transfer.

 

[glide]

It's a pre-ban pistol. Any dealer may legally transfer it in. Some may choose not to.

 

[ranger4-7]

It's a pre-ban pistol. Any dealer may legally transfer it in. Some may choose not to.

I believe your statement is incorrect. If the pistol is not on the EOPS roster, a dealer would need to have evidence that it was owned, by a licensed Massachusetts resident, on or before 10/21/98. Here is the actual language from Massachusetts General Law, Section 123 of Chapter 140 (section laying out requirements for dealer transfers of firearms): "Clauses Eighteenth to Twenty-first, inclusive, of the first paragraph shall not apply to: (i) a firearm lawfully owned or possessed under a license issued under this chapter on or before October 21, 1998"

https://malegislature.gov/Laws/GeneralLaws/PartI/TitleXX/Chapter140/Section123

Please note that it doesn't say that the rules do not apply to a firearm manufactured before 1998, it clearly states that only when it was owned or possessed by someone with a Massachusetts firearms, prior to 10/21/98, can the dealer do the transfer.

You are certainly correct in stating that some dealers will do it, under the believe that it is a "preban" pistol, and therefore exempt, but their beliefs as to what the law says, doesn't change what the law actually says.

 

[kalash]

Just about everything is a gray area in this state. Your options are 1) be risk averse and don't get anything even remotely questionable, b) take your best guess as to what's legal (today), or c) get whatever you want since MA can retroactively declare you a felon.

 

[Whutmeworry]

If the pistol is not on the EOPS roster, a dealer would need to have evidence that it was owned, by a licensed Massachusetts resident, on or before 10/21/98. .

Just thought I'd mention that the "proof" of ownership in MA prior to 10/21/98 (if I'm not mistaken) would most likely need to come in the form of an FA 1, 2, 3, 4 (etc.) form: as I understand it these are all predecessors to the FA-10 form. I
imagine a simple dated receipt might work..

 

[CAESAR]

Any preban state specific ones are grandfathered for the people that had them in the state. Just like mags.

 

[drgrant]

It's a pre-ban pistol. Any dealer may legally transfer it in. Some may choose not to.

It's off roster handgun so it's supposed to be MA-papered. That said, a ton of dealers have differing interpretations on this. A lot require an old blue card/FA-10 copy. Some only require an old receipt. ( The obvious wallhack here is obvious, LMAO) Some will simply take the inbounder's "word" on it, etc.

-Mike

 

[Len-2A Training]

It's a pre-ban pistol. Any dealer may legally transfer it in. Some may choose not to.

Sorry but you are wrong.

Just thought I'd mention that the "proof" of ownership in MA prior to 10/21/98 (if I'm not mistaken) would most likely need to come in the form of an FA 1, 2, 3, 4 (etc.) form: as I understand it these are all predecessors to the FA-10 form. I
imagine a simple dated receipt might work..

No, at least back to 1968 the form has always been an FA-10 (tissue paper) but the blue card was named ADM 10a.