Practical Implications of H4885 for Purchasing and Possessing

(Red added by me)
If I understand correctly, anything that came from the manufacturer as a pistol or an "other" can always, forever, be either at the whim of the owner. Only stuff that a federally licensed FFL07 manufacturer delivered to a distributor as a rifle is limited to only being a rifle (or SBR)

Why would the new 121B registration lock a lower into being a rifle?
There's nothing in Mass. law that says you can't convert a rifle to a pistol, only the feds care about that.
No but yes. Yes in a practical sense. No in a legal sense. If originally built into a rifle whether by an 07 or by a random individual, federally it can then never be a pistol, just a pistol made from a rifle which is a SBR. Practically it is hard to prove how it was originally built by a private party since they will not document it so reasonable doubt is "I built a pistol first" unless you are in a ban state.

Now should you 121B register it as a rifle then they might have the proof they need that it was originally built into a rifle. So register it as a pistol...
 
If that’s the case.

If a stripped lower was bought, built and fa-10’d as a rifle and that system meant very little and means nothing now. Can that same lower be used to make pistol?

I have feeling the answer is no….but I had to ask.
Hard to say. Your initial recording in MIRCS as a rifle and not a pistol might be enough combined with it not being legal when registered to be a pistol (MA AWB) to say you cannot now build a pistol. But from a practical perspective, the risk would be very low
 
No but yes. Yes in a practical sense. No in a legal sense. If originally built into a rifle whether by an 07 or by a random individual, federally it can then never be a pistol,
Ah! Ok. I thought a lower sold to the first consumer as a lower was always “originally an other” no matter what you do with it later, or in what order.

Now should you 121B register it as a rifle then they might have the proof they need that it was originally built into a rifle. So register it as a pistol...

“First registration with the state” isn’t necessarily the configuration it was first built as.

And since the state doesn’t care about original configuration, why might the state’s record matter to the feds?
 
No. Read the post above you!

Seriously… WTF?

This is a fed thing.
I know. I know. I felt stupid trying it. But there is just so much info floating around I thought it was worth a shot.

Hell….i can unf*** my fixed mag pistol now….so i was hoping.
(Red added by me)
If I understand correctly, anything that came from the manufacturer as a pistol or an "other" can always, forever, be either at the whim of the owner. Only stuff that a federally licensed FFL07 manufacturer delivered to a distributor as a rifle is limited to only being a rifle (or SBR)

Why would the new 121B registration lock a lower into being a rifle?
There's nothing in Mass. law that says you can't convert a rifle to a pistol, only the feds care about that.

Pretty sure milktree is correct about this.

If a manufacturer creates a rifle, then turning it into a pistol would be a “weapon made from a rifle”

However, if a manufacturer creates an other (stripped lower) for sale, that is the same thing as a pistol in terms of the ATF rules on weapons made from rifles.

People assembling serialized lowers into a gun are not manufacturers.
 
No but yes. Yes in a practical sense. No in a legal sense. If originally built into a rifle whether by an 07 or by a random individual, federally it can then never be a pistol, just a pistol made from a rifle which is a SBR. Practically it is hard to prove how it was originally built by a private party since they will not document it so reasonable doubt is "I built a pistol first" unless you are in a ban state.

Now should you 121B register it as a rifle then they might have the proof they need that it was originally built into a rifle. So register it as a pistol...

But a person building up a lower is not the original maker of said firearm (unless it was an 80%). The manufacturer was. And if a manufacturer made an other, then it was originally an other, not a rifle.

“A firearm that was originally a rifle would be classified as a “weapon made from a rifle” if it has either a barrel less than 16 inches in length or an overall length of less than 26 inches. If an individual wishes to make an NFA firearm, they must first submit ATF Form 1 (Application to Make and Register a Firearm), pay a $200.00 making tax, and receive approval of the application from ATF before converting the firearm.

[18 U.S.C. § 921(a)(3); 26 U.S.C. § 5845(a)(3)-(4)]”
 
So with the new language about prohibited places now in force, which include a storage allowance, is it the consensus that a gun locked in the glovebox is lawful when picking the kids up from school, given that it could be posited that "government buildings" include schools?

🐯
Unloaded? Yes as long as you stored it before entering the school's property
 
But a person building up a lower is not the original maker of said firearm (unless it was an 80%). The manufacturer was. And if a manufacturer made an other, then it was originally an other, not a rifle.

“A firearm that was originally a rifle would be classified as a “weapon made from a rifle” if it has either a barrel less than 16 inches in length or an overall length of less than 26 inches. If an individual wishes to make an NFA firearm, they must first submit ATF Form 1 (Application to Make and Register a Firearm), pay a $200.00 making tax, and receive approval of the application from ATF before converting the firearm.

[18 U.S.C. § 921(a)(3); 26 U.S.C. § 5845(a)(3)-(4)]”
The manufacture did not make an "other". They made a receiver. It is an enumerated type of firearm. The statue does not say manufactured or manufacture. It says "originally a rifle". I will not perform the task, but I recommend some google on the topic. You will find ATF rulings on "kits" and the fact that the original build of said kit was a rifle to constitute "originally a rifle".
 
Can gun stores in Massachusetts take handguns on consignment that are not on the roster but have been in Massachusetts for a long time?

I thought I knew the answer to this question. But I had a conversation recently, and it made me realize that I'm not sure I understand the current rules.
This seems to be an ongoing theme, where I have been paying close attention, and I thought I understood what's going on. But then I review things, and I'm not sure any more.
 
This seems to be an ongoing theme, where I have been paying close attention, and I thought I understood what's going on. But then I review things, and I'm not sure any more.

Yes. That means the law is working as designed.

I think, at this point, that the only meaningful answer to your question is "depends on how much risk the individual seller is willing to assume." They'll sell whatever they feel comfortable selling, but you shouldn't assume they'll be any less confused by this law than you are.
 
The manufacture did not make an "other". They made a receiver. It is an enumerated type of firearm. The statue does not say manufactured or manufacture. It says "originally a rifle". I will not perform the task, but I recommend some google on the topic. You will find ATF rulings on "kits" and the fact that the original build of said kit was a rifle to constitute "originally a rifle".

Did the receiver originally go to another FFL as a rifle? Or did it go to the other FFL as an other? The receiver itself is a firearm in federal eyes. It does not need to be able to fire a shot like MA used to be. But I know you know all that.

As for kits, are you referring to parts kits that were derived from old/surplus rifles?
 
Build it out and enjoy.

Only rules are dictated by your wallet.

I’m going to build out an 8/1 into a ar pistol.
I was told by Jon at goal my built lower is illegal bought it back in July and built it then registered on efa10 portal all prior to 8/1 and it's somehow now illegal ? I can't believe that to be true otherwise every lower sold since 2016 and built as a rifle is now illegal and caused everyone to break the law.
 
I was told by Jon at goal my built lower is illegal bought it back in July and built it then registered on efa10 portal all prior to 8/1 and it's somehow now illegal ? I can't believe that to be true otherwise every lower sold since 2016 and built as a rifle is now illegal and caused everyone to break the law.

I wouldn't worry about it one bit... Compliance with this law is going to be in the single digits percentile of the gun owning population in MA... Same as the amount of people that abided by Healey's edict. I predict exactly NO ONE will register those unfinished lowers, or any firearm requiring such...

Keep calm, and carry on..
 
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