Powerbelt fail, what muzzleloading bullet do you use?

dukefan70

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Nothing but a click with four deer 50 yards out this morning. I actually managed to slowly load another primer, and got another click. I was furious. Both primers did go off when I checked afterward. I had sighted and cleaned it thoroughly the other day and removed excess oil, but all I could figure was there was residual oil in the breach plug. When I left and checked it out, my bullet was halfway down the barrel. I'm new to this and had read something last night about a guy having that problem with powerbelts. I was even more furious because I was going to check that the bullet was seated before going into the woods this morning but I had my electrical tape over the muzzle so I didn't bother because I'd been careful to carry it muzzle up. I had just loaded it last night and then put it upright in the safe. The only possibility was the case sliding side to side a bit in the backseat on the way over, which to me is extremely lame for a bullet to not stay seated just through a 12 minute ride. So now I'll load just before going in when I get there, and check it when I'm in place.

Moving forward...what bullets have you more experienced guys used where you haven't had this problem? Thanks in advance.

P.S. Fyi, 245 grain Powerbelt copper, 100 grains Blackhorn 209 with a 209 shotgun primer.
 
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Somethin ain't right and possibly downright dangerous.
The primers moving the round half way down the barrel but not igniting the powder is almost not possible, unless maybe your powder was soaking wet. Movement in a car or anywhere would not cause a properly sized bullet or sabot to move.
What caliber is the rifle and bullet?

Get a range rod and mark it on an unloaded and then a loaded barrel - with the bullet firmly seated.

I don't like powerbelts either, but not for the same reasons.
 
This has nothing to do with the powerbelt and everything to do with the powder. If using the pellets did you put them the correct way. I know some won't ignite if dropped in backwards. No way the primer pushed the powerbelt that far down the barrel. Could you have loaded it light or could it have gotten wet.
 
I've had too much bore butter be the cause of a bad ignition, after 3 or4 primers it touched off. Bullets should fit tight enough too stay put unless a partial ignition. The report should have been a clue.
 
As said, mark the rod to indicate depth with the rifle loaded, to use as a gauge.

I use the 777 pellets and primers ( and TC sabots) and have never experienced a misfire. This, after leaving the rifle loaded for extremely long lengths of time. And I've never found the load to have unseated in the least.

I'd experimented with Powerbelts but they were not as accurate. However, I did find them to be VERY easy to load. I carry them for follow-up shots because of that - easier to load quickly when seating the bullet past the "crud ring" residue left in the barrel after firing.
 
Nothing but a click with four deer 50 yards out this morning, 245 grain Powerbelt copper, 100 grains Blackhorn 209 with a 209 shotgun primer.
Muzzleloading... you need a tightly patched round ball, properly seated over a good amount of dry FFg black powder, a clean touchhole, a pan of dry FFFFg powder, a well tempered frizzen, and a properly knapped flint. You seem to have forgotten all of these vital components... [laugh]
 
Muzzleloading... you need a tightly patched round ball, properly seated over a good amount of dry FFg black powder, a clean touchhole, a pan of dry FFFFg powder, a well tempered frizzen, and a properly knapped flint. You seem to have forgotten all of these vital components... [laugh]

Very nostalgic but it is 2016
At least you moved past the wooden spear. LOL

Powder is wet or to much bore butter. I Just helped a member at the range last week with to much bore butter 3 primers no boom. I stopped him he could have been sending the projectile part way up the barrel. It's not the power belt. Or you can blame Obummer.
 
I have not used powerbelt bullets, but some general information.

First, a 209 primer that goes off but does not ignites the powder charge CAN and WILL move the bullet down the barrel in most instances. If you have a primer pop and charge does not ignite, always reseat bullet and charge. (just wait a bit so you don't have a hang fire). The 209 primer has way more energy than needed to set off a ML, and the custom gun makers are moving to small rifle primers as it appears to deliver more uniform ignition and better accuracy.

How far the bullet moves down the barrel depends on the fit of bullet to barrel. Actual barrel diameter varies barrel to barrel even within the same model from the same manufacturer. How tight a fit do you have pushing bullet down the barrel?

I have moved to smokeless powder in my ML shooting (don't hate me, I use in line weapons designed by the manufacturer (Savage) to use smokeless, and powder charges are factory recommended ones) WARNING: Only use smokeless powder in MLoaders designed to use smokeless powder)

With smokeless powder, you need a tight fit (tight as in two hands on ramrod and some effort to push it down) or you will get mis fires.

True black powder is the opposite and is very forgiving of loose fit and ignites regardless.

Black powder substitutes are somewhere in between the two. Blackhorn 209 in my (limited) experience is closer to smokeless powder in this attribute and likes a tighter fit from the friends that use it.

Im not saying bullet fit is the issue (more likely bore butter or damp powder hunting in rain) but if the bullet moved halfway down the bore from a primer or two it indicates to me a loose fit and with blackhorn that may be an issue.

One other thought, some loads that are consistent and reliable in warmer weather are not in cold deer season weather. Just a thought. I don't trust a load for hunting until I have range tested it in January or February on a cold day.

Good luck working out solution.
 
First ditch the power belts they ****ing suck. Came out of my TC impact and hit the target sideways.....they were way too lose fitting. Second fire a primer through your gun with no powder and bullet (obviously) before going out for a hunt. Point the muzzle at some grass when you pull the trigger to see if the grass moves meaning gas escapes the muzzle. Then you know your breach plug is clear. I use tc shockwave bullets in mag express sabots. They are a bitch to ram down the barrel but stay seated. 3 rounds touching at 50 yards with iron sight accuracy.

Sorry you had a frustrating hunt.
 
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This has nothing to do with the powerbelt and everything to do with the powder. If using the pellets did you put them the correct way. I know some won't ignite if dropped in backwards. No way the primer pushed the powerbelt that far down the barrel. Could you have loaded it light or could it have gotten wet.

It could have moved it that far in my opinion. I tried power belts in my gun and they were so lose they almost fell down the bore on their own!
 
Be glad that the rifle didn't fire when the bullet was 1/2 way down the barrel. You would have ended up with a bulge in the barrel or worse.

I use the Hornady LnL sabot and three 777 50 g pellets in my TC Impact.

Bob
 
How far the bullet moves down the barrel depends on the fit of bullet to barrel. Actual barrel diameter varies barrel to barrel even within the same model from the same manufacturer. How tight a fit do you have pushing bullet down the barrel?
...

Black powder substitutes are somewhere in between the two. Blackhorn 209 in my (limited) experience is closer to smokeless powder in this attribute and likes a tighter fit from the friends that use it.

Im not saying bullet fit is the issue (more likely bore butter or damp powder hunting in rain) but if the bullet moved halfway down the bore from a primer or two it indicates to me a loose fit and with blackhorn that may be an issue.

One other thought, some loads that are consistent and reliable in warmer weather are not in cold deer season weather. Just a thought. I don't trust a load for hunting until I have range tested it in January or February on a cold day.

A few things. First it does take some effort to get the bullet down the barrel...enough that even though I read that somebody had problems with loose powerbelts I never thought it would be an issue.

I do know where my ramrod goes to for a correct load...I read some tips and made sure of that. I give it a lil oomph once I get there too for a tight fit, so I doubt that was the problem. I didn't use bore butter when I cleaned, just regular ol CLP cleaned it up real quick with a couple patches and then a boresnake. I'll tell you right now I didn't run a dry patch through before I went out BUT by the time I ran that boresnake through I was goin real easy on the CLP and there was a lot of dry real estate on that boresnake that was the last thing through that bore.

I highly doubt the powder got damp from the elements. It was very cold but dry and I had electrical tape over my muzzle.

Another thing...I didn't go into this in my initial post to avoid writing a book but it seems it's relevant. When I got away from my hunting location to an area where I could discharge the rifle, I snapped 5 more primers trying to get the thing to fire before I unplugged it and emptied out the powder (no I didn't measure what I took out), then found when I went to ram the bullet out that it was halfway down. After the bullet was out I could see in my barrel that the front half was clean and the back half was black...seemingly a partial ignition. I assumed the only explanation was that the bullet slid and then I got a bad ignition from the loose load. So my ignorance about the power of the primers means that there's probably no way to tell if the bullet slid before I fired the primers or not. I didn't even think about the primer being able to move the bullet without the powder igniting before people started debating it. So total it was 7 primers, not just the two when the deer were in my sights.

So is it possible the powder was damp from the CLP? I'd be surprised but I guess.

Northny, I hadn't thought about the extreme cold being a factor. When I sighted it last week it was probably 40ish degrees; it was 20 without the wind chill the other morning when this happened. Even when I reloaded it with a fresh load and finally got it to fire it was a half second hang fire. So I don't know if it was a little bit the CLP and the cold or what. But I sure hope it wasn't the cold because last time I checked cold days are great for deer and it probably ain't warming up before December 31st!
 
A few things. First it does take some effort to get the bullet down the barrel...enough that even though I read that somebody had problems with loose powerbelts I never thought it would be an issue.

I do know where my ramrod goes to for a correct load...I read some tips and made sure of that. I give it a lil oomph once I get there too for a tight fit, so I doubt that was the problem. I didn't use bore butter when I cleaned, just regular ol CLP cleaned it up real quick with a couple patches and then a boresnake. I'll tell you right now I didn't run a dry patch through before I went out BUT by the time I ran that boresnake through I was goin real easy on the CLP and there was a lot of dry real estate on that boresnake that was the last thing through that bore.

I highly doubt the powder got damp from the elements. It was very cold but dry and I had electrical tape over my muzzle.

Another thing...I didn't go into this in my initial post to avoid writing a book but it seems it's relevant. When I got away from my hunting location to an area where I could discharge the rifle, I snapped 5 more primers trying to get the thing to fire before I unplugged it and emptied out the powder (no I didn't measure what I took out), then found when I went to ram the bullet out that it was halfway down. After the bullet was out I could see in my barrel that the front half was clean and the back half was black...seemingly a partial ignition. I assumed the only explanation was that the bullet slid and then I got a bad ignition from the loose load. So my ignorance about the power of the primers means that there's probably no way to tell if the bullet slid before I fired the primers or not. I didn't even think about the primer being able to move the bullet without the powder igniting before people started debating it. So total it was 7 primers, not just the two when the deer were in my sights.

So is it possible the powder was damp from the CLP? I'd be surprised but I guess.

Northny, I hadn't thought about the extreme cold being a factor. When I sighted it last week it was probably 40ish degrees; it was 20 without the wind chill the other morning when this happened. Even when I reloaded it with a fresh load and finally got it to fire it was a half second hang fire. So I don't know if it was a little bit the CLP and the cold or what. But I sure hope it wasn't the cold because last time I checked cold days are great for deer and it probably ain't warming up before December 31st!

Clp was more than likely the problem. Use black powder cleaning solution or soapy water. Dry the hell out if it......then a LIGHT bore butter patch and you are done. No clp for black powder guns.
 
To me unless your trying to push your rifle out past 150 yards pellets work fine. Now if you want good groups out past that then powder is the way to go. Ditch the powerbelts. Grabs some hornady sst and some pellets and re sight in.
 
If the black horn went bang at 40 degrees it should go bang at single digits.

The black dirty barrel was likely due to the seven 209 primers. On their own like that they leave a lot of residue. They can also gunk up (close up) the flame channel. If the flame channel in breech plug is partially closed up that's probably ok. All mine partially close after a few shots.

I suspect the clp was issue. Dry patch it good and you will likely be fine.
 
Clp was more than likely the problem. Use black powder cleaning solution or soapy water. Dry the hell out if it......then a LIGHT bore butter patch and you are done. No clp for black powder guns.

I suspect the clp was issue. Dry patch it good and you will likely be fine.

I'll obviously take your guys advice, but I'm curious...why would CLP do that?

And what do you guys use to clean, just hoppes?
 
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I'll obviously take your guys advice, but I'm curious...why would CLP do that?

And what do you guys use to clean, just hoppes?

Don't use any petroleum based solvents at all. There are solutions out there specifically for muzzle loaders. Or just hot soapy water.
 
Be glad that the rifle didn't fire when the bullet was 1/2 way down the barrel. You would have ended up with a bulge in the barrel or worse.

I use the Hornady LnL sabot and three 777 50 g pellets in my TC Impact.

Bob

Anythin over 100 grains equilivent powder and my shot groups open up on my tc impact.
 
I carry them for follow-up shots because of that - easier to load quickly when seating the bullet past the "crud ring" residue left in the barrel after firing.

That's the best idea for powerbelts ive heard. Wish I hadn't given away the several I had after trying them.
 
My CVA buckhorn .50 has never failed me with pellets and powerbelt rounds. Then again, that's all range time as I've never had the chance to fire it at a deer. I clean the everliving shit out of that gun after ever time it's fired though, (never having put more than 5 rounds through it in a day) and I make sure to swab, swab, swab until that barrel and action is completely clean and dry. I use the stuff that came with the gun package. It's syrup-like and very stinky but I don't recall the name of it. I have never used Bore Butter either. After finally getting everything clean with that stinky stuff, I'll drop some CLP down the muzzle, and swab that about three times until the last one comes out dry. Then a little of that anti-seize crud on the threads of the breech block and assemble.

One of my buddies has missed the chance on two deer because his ML failed. Once the primer did nothing at all, and the other time the primer ignited the powder but it must have been wet because it just went "plop" and the slug fell out of the barrel with no velocity. That's a heart-breaker when an 8-pointer is running away laughing at you!
 
I'm a big fan of home cast LEE R.E.A.L (Rifle Engraved at Loading) bullets. They are slightly undersized at the shank and the top skirt is oversized making them engrave when loading. No plastic or anything to foul up the bore, and any powder fouling engraves the bullet as well, so shot after shot, they all go down the bore easy for loading. I've gotten my best groups with them in anything I shoot them through. I like more shooting and less cleaning while at the range.
 
120 grain 209
295 grain 50 cal Powerbelt
shotgun caps
TC Impact
 
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Hot soapy water does the trick for me. Once she gets hung up for the season I coat the barrel in bore butter and she's good to go for next season.
 
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