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Powerbelt fail, what muzzleloading bullet do you use?

Dadstoys

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Prior to loading for the season I clean all oil and lube out of the barrel and breach plug.
I use T/ C shockwaves with 100 grains of pyrodex pellets.
No bore butter , just a little spit on the sabott sides only to keep the powder dry.
I keep a common pin stuck in the belt loop of my pouch to clear the flash hole in the breach plug.
I have yet to have a bullet move off the charge with the shockwaves.
 

whacko

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Prior to loading for the season I clean all oil and lube out of the barrel and breach plug.
I use T/ C shockwaves with 100 grains of pyrodex pellets.
No bore butter , just a little spit on the sabott sides only to keep the powder dry.
I keep a common pin stuck in the belt loop of my pouch to clear the flash hole in the breach plug.
I have yet to have a bullet move off the charge with the shockwaves.

Are you using mag express sabot or super glide sabot? The shockwave bullet is sold with different sabots. I use the mag express.....Bitch to push down the muzzle but tight shot groups. The super glide sabots are thinner walked and easier to go down the barrel.
 

Dadstoys

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Are you using mag express sabot or super glide sabot? The shockwave bullet is sold with different sabots. I use the mag express.....Bitch to push down the muzzle but tight shot groups. The super glide sabots are thinner walked and easier to go down the barrel.

I've been using the super glides with good results.
The accuracy is good with the 100 grains and they punch a nice hole.
Good expansion on the recovered ones.
I find them easier to get that second shot down a dirty barrel as well for follow up shots.
When you get to the third it starts getting a little tough.
Bent a ramrod last year trying to load number three with four deer coming down a hill at me.
Last day of muzzle loader last year the deer seemed like they were determined to commit suicide by Dadstoys. [smile]
 

whacko

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I've been using the super glides with good results.
The accuracy is good with the 100 grains and they punch a nice hole.
Good expansion on the recovered ones.
I find them easier to get that second shot down a dirty barrel as well for follow up shots.
When you get to the third it starts getting a little tough.
Bent a ramrod last year trying to load number three with four deer coming down a hill at me.
Last day of muzzle loader last year the deer seemed like they were determined to commit suicide by Dadstoys. [smile]

I hope Monday the 26th is like that! Have an outing planned with my son. We filled his doe tag and that's it so far this season. But......I'm typing this while enjoying a bowl of the first venison stew of the winter!!!! One deer so far in the family but I'm getting greedy!!!!

I have preferred the mag express sabots. 3 rounds touching at 50 yard accuracy. The super glides were a wider grouping.
 

Dadstoys

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Shotgun wasn't all that productive this year , they went nocturnal pretty early.
Some nice ones on the cameras all at like 9pm, 3am ect.
Put one spike in the freezer the first week from a blind.
They seem to be bunching up now so we'll see how it goes.
The boy is off school all next week and i'm on vacation so we'll hit it hard .
 

sig shooter

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-.490 round ball
-.10 patch lubed with mink tallow
-90G of Goex FFG Blackpowder.

I use moosemilk, which is Ballistol and water mixed, to clean up. I then give it a coating of pure Ballistol until the next use. If im keeping it charged, Ill omit the Ballistol and tape the muzzle with electrical tape to keep it dry.
 

wizdoc2006

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My guess would be bad powder. My Knight disc doesn't like Powerbelts until it gets dirty. They are too loose,not enough back pressure. I use Barnes expander Mz. & 100 grains of 777. I only use bore butter when the gun sits in the safe. Before deer season I take a few shots , check accuracy. Then clean it with cold water and dish detergent . I take one shot & load up for the hunt. It always goes bang and is on target.
 

timbo

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Kind of taking a turn into left field and not trying to derail the thread...not sure about Mass but in NH it's illegal to carry a loaded muzzleloader in your vehicle...I even had a Fish Cop check mine once on opening day as I was pulling it out of the truck. Not sure if this is OK without a primer on it or not. The fish cop gave me the feeling it was illegal even if the primer was not on the nipple. You might want to check the Mass laws on this.
 

pupchow

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Kind of taking a turn into left field and not trying to derail the thread...not sure about Mass but in NH it's illegal to carry a loaded muzzleloader in your vehicle...I even had a Fish Cop check mine once on opening day as I was pulling it out of the truck. Not sure if this is OK without a primer on it or not. The fish cop gave me the feeling it was illegal even if the primer was not on the nipple. You might want to check the Mass laws on this.
In MA, no primer = unloaded
 

whacko

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In MA, no primer = unloaded

This! And it makes absolute sense especially in traditional muzzle loaders without a removable breach. Without a ball puller the only way to "unload it" if removing the primer is not considered unloaded is to fire it.

Remove the primer = unloaded. Done
 
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I know this in an old post, but I thought I would add my experience from this year. 2020. Were you using a Knight muzzleloader by chance? From what I understand, they have a ever so slightly larger diameter barrel. I have 2 Knights, a Long Range Hunter and one of the first Wolverines they made. This year I decided to try PB bullets in hopes of tighter groups. I am also using Blackhorn 209 powder. I had the exact same thing happen to me with both muzzleloaders. I fired multiple primers and had brand new powder. The bullet would move 10" and I would have to reseat it. Someone at the range gave me some 777 pellets and they fired with no problem. Now with a dirty barrel, the Blackhorn/PB bullets seemed to work fine. I thought I had the problem solved and just needed to have a fouled barrel.
Now yesterday, my son took a 100 yard shot at a doe with the Wolverine. I hadn't cleaned the barrel since I had it at the range. It fired and the deer jumped, trotted a short distance then walked off with a significant limp on the front leg on the side he shot her. She did not have a limp prior to him shooting. We were able to watch her through binoculars for a good 5 minutes. We could not see any blood on her. When we checked her path for blood, we didn't find any. This was on fresh snow. I know he hit her because of her limp. I believe the bullet hit her hard but did not penetrate.
I believe what is happening is the PB bullet does not seal the barrel and Blackhorn powder does not compress like other powders and is a very unique shape that allows gas to escape. With a clean barrel, so much gas escapes, the powder won't ignite. With a dirty barrel, it will ignite but still lose much of it's pressure.
Based on my experience, you did nothing wrong and your power was dry. I have been hunting with a muzzleloader for 30 years but this was a surprise to me but I have no other explanation. I will be going back to 240 grain Hornady XTP's.
 

Mark from MA

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Holy Thread Necro.

I use Pellets and Powerbelts all the time. Never an issue! 1" groups at 100yds out of my CVA break open and T/C encore. Used them for almost 20 years, as I never followed the MA regulations on break action inlines. As soon as I got my Encore, that's all I ever hunted with from then on because it was so easy to clean. Then I bought my CVA break open with the easy breach plug and that was even better.

Both produce great accuracy with Powerbelts and 777 pellets, Pyrodex Pellets......etc. I never use Blackhorn, or any dry powder anymore. I don't care if I have to clean it every 2-3 shots. The idea of having an easy clean break open muzzleloader is so I can clean it easily. If you need more than 3 shots with a ML in the woods, well, you have other problems. If you even get 3 shots it would be amazing. That said, in my pack, I carry 10 patches, and a small squirt bottle of Ballistol mix, just in case. Its not a big deal.

Cleaning after 3 shots with powerbelts is as easy twisting out the breach plug by hand with my CVA, and swabbing 3-4 wet with water based ML solvent or Ballistol mix, and 2 dry patches down the hole. Simple. Never a problem after that. I know I have a clean barrel and my zero will be on.

My experience is powerbelts will load with the muzzleloader a bit dirty, the sabots will not, they get all crushed up. Hence the big push to use Blackhorn, which is expensive and just another way to not clean the muzzleloader when you should be.
 
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You can’t use muzzleloader specific primers with black horn and if it’s a cva your supposed to use the BH breach plug. Once I replaced the breach plug and got new primers I never had a problem. I just put together an encore and shot a doe yesterday at 232 yards with an arrowhead XLD bullet and this is the exit, she never took a step D5600958-9959-4CB3-9931-3BA9FA480B12.jpeg
 

Mesatchornug

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You can’t use muzzleloader specific primers with black horn and if it’s a cva your supposed to use the BH breach plug. Once I replaced the breach plug and got new primers I never had a problem. I just put together an encore and shot a doe yesterday at 232 yards with an arrowhead XLD bullet and this is the exit, she never took a step View attachment 430373
I'm sure it's the way you had to open the wound for the photo, but how much meat is lost to that shot?
 
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I'm sure it's the way you had to open the wound for the photo, but how much meat is lost to that shot?
I’ll get a better one inside the cavity it was devastating it just Exploded in there. She was about 10 yards from private so I did a higher shoulder shot and she dropped, lost a little back strap. I called a buddy to help me drag her out and while field dressing her another doe crossed the marsh at like 120 my gun was ready so I said I’ll stop her and when she does shoot, I let out a meeerrrrpp And bang, he didn’t let her stop. Really bad shot she was dragging her back legs so he ran up and finished her. Here’s one that I’m not holding open, I think it just grenaded when it hit thick bone, not sure exactly why it’s so crazy I haven’t done an autopsy yet. C684DB5A-FE74-4D54-B20C-E758C64879DF.jpeg
 

dukefan70

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Were you using a Knight muzzleloader by chance?
Nope. Traditions Pursuit G4. Have since gone to 250 grain Hornady SST with 110 grains of Blackhorn 209. Have had a family member use powerbelts with 777 pellets with no issues. There was an occasion a few years ago where I had to carry my ML barrel up without it having being fired and nothing to cover it during a wet snow helping a buddy carry a buck out through frozen swamp hillocks. Just out of curiosity, I fired it after...no issues whatsoever. But I honestly can't remember if I was still on the powerbelts with Blackhorn or if I had switched to the Hornadys yet.
 

Bt74

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Don't use any petroleum based solvents at all. There are solutions out there specifically for muzzle loaders. Or just hot soapy water.
TC began recommending staying away from petroleum products many years ago. They pointed out that when BP was the standard for firearms, they used bear grease and similar non petroleum products, and did not have corrosion issues. I have a Scout Carbine that I bought when they first came out, has NEVER seen any kind of oil. Only hot soapy water followed with Natralube. I've left it charged for TWO years before, and taken a deer with that charge. If I discharge it, I clean it that night. There is NO rust or corrosion on any part of the rifle.
 

Mark from MA

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TC began recommending staying away from petroleum products many years ago. They pointed out that when BP was the standard for firearms, they used bear grease and similar non petroleum products, and did not have corrosion issues. I have a Scout Carbine that I bought when they first came out, has NEVER seen any kind of oil. Only hot soapy water followed with Natralube. I've left it charged for TWO years before, and taken a deer with that charge. If I discharge it, I clean it that night. There is NO rust or corrosion on any part of the rifle.

The theory is your barrel will season like a cast iron fry pan if you stay away from petroleum based. For cleaning and lubing the barrel, that's what I do. But the outer of the gun gets treated like a normal firearm. My percussion cap black powder guns, for long term storage I pull and clean the nipple in regular solvent and blow out with air. I also treat the thread area and around it with whatever petroleum based oil I'm using at the moment or a dry lube like the hornady stuff I use for reloading which is what I mostly use now.

I've found the grease natralube to not do a great job around the nipple area because it's too thick, and doesn't get into the threads and they rust. I could heat it, but that's a pia. I've thought of using that lanolin based Fluid Film everyone is using for undercoating trucks now for cleaning and lubing the whole thing, lock, stock and barrel. Haven't tried it yet though.

I think the main thing is if you fire it, clean it within a day or two or you'll be sorry. Supposedly if you keep using the non pet based products, and the cast iron theory is correct, leaving it without cleaning it won't ruin the barrel....but that's a stretch I think.
 
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Bt74

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The theory is your barrel will season like a cast iron fry pan if you stay away from petroleum based. For cleaning and lubing the barrel, that's what I do. But the outer of the gun gets treated like a normal firearm. My percussion cap black powder guns, for long term storage I pull and clean the nipple in regular solvent and blow out with air. I also treat the thread area and around it with whatever petroleum based oil I'm using at the moment or a dry lube like the hornady stuff I use for reloading which is what I mostly use now.

I've found the grease natralube to not do a great job around the nipple area because it's too thick, and doesn't get into the threads and they rust. I could heat it, but that's a pia. I've thought of using that lanolin based Fluid Film everyone is using for undercoating trucks now for cleaning and lubing the whole thing, lock, stock and barrel. Haven't tried it yet though.

I think the main thing is if you fire it, clean it within a day or two or you'll be sorry. Supposedly if you keep using the non pet based products, and the cast iron theory is correct, leaving it without cleaning it won't ruin the barrel....but that's a stretch I think.
I use the natralube on the entire rifle, but being that I clean it with VERY hot soapy water, it melts and wets out the metal. The nipple is hot when I lube it and reinstall it, have NEVER had ANY rust anywhere. Other than the stock having some nicks and bumps, the rifle looks like it is brand new. Not bad for a 27 yo muzzle loader. Took 2 deer with it this year.
 
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Thompson center muzzleloaders love power belts. But they have a really tight bore. Muzzleloaders are definitely unique animals. Each has their own preferences for powder primers and bullets. What works for the next guy may not work for you.. personally my Thompson center absolutely loves power belts. It won't group anything else
 
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