Possibly moving to ri , some basic questions comparing ma and ri

C. Stockwell

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I live in Mass and have a RI carry permit. Yes you can bring all your guns to RI and posses them in your home and travel to the range. Concerning the 3 possible towns of choice I would call Sven or Skye at Elite Indoor Pistol range, (401) 792-7000, in South Kingston they or one of their instructors should be able to answer questions about which town might be best. Elite is open to the public as well as having memberships. Nice place.
The guy posted that he was thinking about moving back in 2015. This is an old thread that someone necro'ed. I think the guy moved by now, or didn't [laugh]
 

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I moved to rhode island bit I still have a mass Id would I still be able to buy a gun? I can clear the background check I'm just not sure if they would allow it because It says i live in Massachusetts even though I live in east providence rhode island. Any answers would be much appreciated.
You can only buy a handgun in a state in which you reside. Long guns and shotguns can be purchased, but no matter the state you live in, you still have a 7 day wait, unless you have a Chief of Police CC permit.

Also, the state says you need to change your residency when you move here. I have no idea what the penalty is if you don’t.
 
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Karma (Limit first two requests) - 1 Army-L target shipped via US Snail to anyone needing to RI qualify. Any NRA instructor is accepted for the qualification signature. Please do not claim this unless you are actually going to use it for the RI qualification. Thanks
 
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Very poor wording:

§ 11-47-15. Proof of ability required for license or permit.

No person shall be issued a license or permit to carry a pistol or revolver concealed upon his or her person until he or she has presented certification as prescribed in § 11-47-16 that he or she has qualified with a pistol or revolver of a caliber equal to or larger than the one he or she intends to carry
"Well, I intended to carry a 9x19 so I qualified with one of those, but then got a great deal on a fotay but since I qualified with one equal to or larger than the one I intended to carry I meet the requirement".
 

pinefd

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I moved to rhode island bit I still have a mass Id would I still be able to buy a gun? I can clear the background check I'm just not sure if they would allow it because It says i live in Massachusetts even though I live in east providence rhode island. Any answers would be much appreciated.
I have a RI non-resident LTC, and a RI Blue Card, but since my primary residence is still in MA (we also own a summer home in RI), I cannot purchase a gun in RI. I was told that I need to officially change my primary residence to RI before I can purchase a gun in RI, and be able to present a RI driver's license or state issued ID card in addition to the Blue Card (or LTC) in order purchase in RI.


Frank
 
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I wonder if the numbers quoted in that article include the RI carry permits issued to out of state residents.
 

C. Stockwell

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I found this article that has some pretty interesting statistics on which towns are friendly vs not, as far as local PD applications:

Few have legal right to carry concealed handgun in Rhode Island
I've read that before, its a 3-year old article. Good info still, though.

I wonder if the numbers quoted in that article include the RI carry permits issued to out of state residents.
There's legally no difference between a res and a non-res permit in RI. So probably included. The police usually just provide raw numbers of applicants/denied/issued/renewed.
 

mike1960

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I wonder if the numbers quoted in that article include the RI carry permits issued to out of state residents.

I am a Mass resident but have a house in Narragansett. I got my LTC in 2018 through the town. Doesn’t say non resident on it but I did have to photocopy my Mass LTC as part of the application. I do have my C&R and I believe that helped. The process was straight forward and everybody at the station was very nice. PM me if you have any questions.
 
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I have a RI non-resident LTC, and a RI Blue Card, but since my primary residence is still in MA (we also own a summer home in RI), I cannot purchase a gun in RI. I was told that I need to officially change my primary residence to RI before I can purchase a gun in RI, and be able to present a RI driver's license or state issued ID card in addition to the Blue Card (or LTC) in order purchase in RI.


Frank
There is no such thing as a ”primary residence.” you can have multiple residences. In fact 27 CFR 478.11 clearly and explicitly spells out what a resident is. Also, a 4473, on page 4 or so, clearly tells a dealer how to transfer a handgun to a person with an out of state ID.
 
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There is no such thing as a ”primary residence.” you can have multiple residences. In fact 27 CFR 478.11 clearly and explicitly spells out what a resident is. Also, a 4473, on page 4 or so, clearly tells a dealer how to transfer a handgun to a person with an out of state ID.
You can always call the state autitor's office and ask for Suzanne Bump to provide you with an explanation as to the difference between "primary residence" and "principal residence" :eek:
 
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You can always call the state autitor's office and ask for Suzanne Bump to provide you with an explanation as to the difference between "primary residence" and "principal residence" :eek:

Neither matter as far as the GCA of 68 is concerned. Principal residence or primary residence aren’t in the US Code, The CFR I cited (27 CFR 478.11) gives a definition and the 4473 on page 4 question 2.

“If the transferee/buyer has two states of residence, the transferee/buyer should list his/her current residence in response to question 2 (e.g., if the transfedse/buyer is purchasing a firearm while staying at his/her weekend home in state X he/she should list the address in State x in response to question 2)”

I’ve purchased handguns with multiple residences.

This is why the ATF asks for a utility bill with your residence if using a DL from another state.

I didn’t even address business presence as mentioned in 18 USC 922 since it wasn’t asked, but that’s also an option under federal law.

So as far as Rhode Island is concerned, a town permit holder can engage in a private sale of a pistol, rifle, or shotgun.

so for the OP, when he’s actually at his Narragansett home, he can use an FFL (if they cooperate) in RI as a RI resident, pursuant to the GCA of 1968, under federal law.

He could also just do a private sale in RI under state law since his 11-47-11 permit exempts him from the state rules as per 11-47-35.1 and 11-37-35.2

He would be complying with federal and state law. As far as MA is concerned, if he doesn’t plan on bringing the firearm back to MA, then an FA-10 or what a Mass bureaucrat would think is irrelevant.
 

pinefd

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Neither matter as far as the GCA of 68 is concerned. Principal residence or primary residence aren’t in the US Code, The CFR I cited (27 CFR 478.11) gives a definition and the 4473 on page 4 question 2.

“If the transferee/buyer has two states of residence, the transferee/buyer should list his/her current residence in response to question 2 (e.g., if the transfedse/buyer is purchasing a firearm while staying at his/her weekend home in state X he/she should list the address in State x in response to question 2)”

I’ve purchased handguns with multiple residences.

This is why the ATF asks for a utility bill with your residence if using a DL from another state.

I didn’t even address business presence as mentioned in 18 USC 922 since it wasn’t asked, but that’s also an option under federal law.

So as far as Rhode Island is concerned, a town permit holder can engage in a private sale of a pistol, rifle, or shotgun.

so for the OP, when he’s actually at his Narragansett home, he can use an FFL (if they cooperate) in RI as a RI resident, pursuant to the GCA of 1968, under federal law.

He could also just do a private sale in RI under state law since his 11-47-11 permit exempts him from the state rules as per 11-47-35.1 and 11-37-35.2

He would be complying with federal and state law. As far as MA is concerned, if he doesn’t plan on bringing the firearm back to MA, then an FA-10 or what a Mass bureaucrat would think is irrelevant.
Excellent info, Jared, thanks! So I apparently got some bad info from the one shop that I inquired at when I asked about purchasing in RI (I'm not surprised). However, can you clarify something for me? Above, you mentioned a couple of times that a town permit holder can engage in a PRIVATE sale. So do those laws also apply to purchases made at gun shops, or ONLY private sales?


Frank
 
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Excellent info, Jared, thanks! So I apparently got some bad info from the one shop that I inquired at when I asked about purchasing in RI (I'm not surprised). However, can you clarify something for me? Above, you mentioned a couple of times that a town permit holder can engage in a PRIVATE sale. So do those laws also apply to purchases made at gun shops, or ONLY private sales?


Frank
Rhode Island doesn’t distinguish between private sales or dealer sales. While the Brady bunch thinks RI bans private sales (let them think they do), they don’t. 11-47-35 and 11-47-35.2 apply to any transaction, even borrowing a firearm (though no one knows about this or enforces it) according to the definitions of buyer and seller found in 11-47-2.

I have done private sales in RI, you can print out the paperwork verbatum from 11-47-35 (for a pistol), print it out, and mail it to the state police or the police department where the transfer will take place.

When I did that, the seller got a call from the police department saying that the paperwork wasn’t necessary as he wasn’t a dealer and that this is the reason why there “are so many guns on the street“ but that they went ahead and ran me and that I was good to go. After laughing, the seller said thanks and hung up.

But yes, many FFL’s around the U.S. make stuff up. It is by no means exclusive to RI or MA. When I used to live in RI, Archer and I were pushing the town permit issue, many dealers were terrified of the 11-47-11 exemption and would still make people wait 7 days. Some of them actually called Bobby Chin to ask him if the law said what it said.... and Bobby told them, yes. Then when they asked why they couldn’t do this for AG permits under 11-47-18, Bobby told them because the law doesn’t reference Section 18. Long story for why AG permits aren’t exempt.

Then some dealers would skip the wait but make you show a blue card not realizing that town permits exempt one from the entire statute.

The latest I’ve heard is that the address on your town permit must match your DL “per the ATF.” I’m not sure what to say to that since the ATF can care less about a town or AG permit as neither is a Brady alternative. RI has no NICS waivers so the ATF could care less about a town permit, AG permit, or a Machine Gun License.

It’s been many years since I had a RI residence; however the laws have not changed at all on this. I never had a town permit, I’ve always had an AG permit so I’ve never been able to take advantage of the 11-47-35 exemption for town permit holders pursuant to 11-47-35.1. So all that effort and I never got the luxury of being exempt :) It was for the greater good and that’s what matters to me.

My brother has had a town permit for 15 years, he hasn’t had a problem with dealers in a long time, but I think the last few purchases he’s made were actually private sales between other town permit holders. My recently deceased uncle actually had 2 town permits (long story) and got some more dealers on board the 11-47-11 train.

So under RI law, as a 11-47-11 license holder, you are exempt from state restrictions on purchases, regardless of if it’s a private sale or FFL sale.

But keep in mind, under Federal law, you must actually be residing in RI when you make the transfer. So if you’re down at the Naragansett house for a long weekend, you can purchase in RI; however, if you leave work in MA, drive to meet your buddy in N. Kingstown to privately purchase from him and drive back home to MA for the night, you are not ok.
 
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pinefd

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Again, great info...thanks!

...The latest I’ve heard is that the address on your town permit must match your DL “per the ATF.”...
Well, the address on my town permit DOES match my DL, but both are for my MA address. I assume, then, that if I were to purchase a gun in RI, I'd have to show some kind of bill(s), proving that I own a home in RI, such as a tax bill, utility bill, etc.

BTW, this may all become a moot point soon, since we'll be putting our house in MA on the market, hopefully March 1st, so if and when it sells, we'll likely be moving to RI full time anyway (as long as my wife is willing to retire...again).


Frank
 
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Again, great info...thanks!



Well, the address on my town permit DOES match my DL, but both are for my MA address. I assume, then, that if I were to purchase a gun in RI, I'd have to show some kind of bill(s), proving that I own a home in RI, such as a tax bill, utility bill, etc.

BTW, this may all become a moot point soon, since we'll be putting our house in MA on the market, hopefully March 1st, so if and when it sells, we'll likely be moving to RI full time anyway (as long as my wife is willing to retire...again).


Frank
If you purchase from an FFL in RI, yes. a utility bill or even a tax bill are sufficient. The FFL can attach that to your 4473 along with a copy of your DL.

If you want to bring the language from the CFR, then pull up 27 CFR 478.11 and print out residency.

If the dealer still doesn’t like it, then ask him to look at question 2 on page 4 of the 4473.

If that still doesn’t work, then just find a competent FFL or do a private sale.
 
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My town permit and license both have the same address but my address on file w/ the state is different (seeing that I have moved since renewing my DL and my town permit). Luckily my car registration reflects my current address and that sufficed. The one strange thing is that one store did want to see my blue card, just like Jared said, but another store I purchased at didn't. I guess they all have different protocols
 
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He would be complying with federal and state law. As far as MA is concerned, if he doesn’t plan on bringing the firearm back to MA, then an FA-10 or what a Mass bureaucrat would think is irrelevant.
Not always. The courts have ruled that a MA licensee in RI who acts in a manner within RI that would have been a storage violation in MA has demonstrated proper cause for the MA issuing authority to revoke his MA LTC. Yes, really.
 
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Not always. The courts have ruled that a MA licensee in RI who acts in a manner within RI that would have been a storage violation in MA has demonstrated proper cause for the MA issuing authority to revoke his MA LTC. Yes, really.
Mass courts are probably on the verge of saying people who vote republican are unsuitable.

As bad as they are, I’m talking in the context of extraterritorial jurisdiction. They simply don’t have it without an interstate compact.
 

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Not always. The courts have ruled that a MA licensee in RI who acts in a manner within RI that would have been a storage violation in MA has demonstrated proper cause for the MA issuing authority to revoke his MA LTC. Yes, really.
So . . . if I don't lock my gun up in NH (not required by law), I could get my MA LTC revoked as unsuitable since that would be a storage violation in MA and a MA court would give their stamp of approval to such action. Yup, makes perfect sense . . . for a communist state!
 
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