Possession of relic weapons

[Mustang5L5]

Curious about this subject. I've been watching videos on Youtube of guys pulling rusted out, disintegrated k98's, mosin s, STG44's and other various firearms from the eastern front.

For the sake of this question, let's assume the firearm is beyond any sort of restoration and is just a rusty piece of metal

If you could somehow get yours hands on one, what are the legalities of possessing, say a rusted STG44 in non-operating condition? Would it be considered deactivated for obvious reasons?


Picture for example

Secondly, is shipping of such a relic legal?


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[cetme24]

I'm not sure but have also watched those videos. I even tried some magnet fishing in the north river but only got some bottle caps and bick lighters. It would be awsome to be able to find those relics.

 

[LoginName]

Probably is going to depend on how badly it's rusted, and if there's any chance it could be made functional again through some elbow grease
and replacement parts.

ATF rulings state that the receiver for NFA firearms has to be torch cut into 3 pieces.

If some determined individual in the tech branch was somehow able to clean that up, take a fresh parts kit, and is able to get off a round or two, the person
it was taken from could be in hot water.

 

[Boris]

I think that it's a case by case basis. There is a whole subculture of diggers in the East Europe, especially x-Soviet republics where not all battlefields weren't thoroughly excavated.

Most deacts from that side of the world are factory deacts with legislation to back the status of them.

Aside from rust pieces, there are live mortar rounds, rifles that actually shoot, live ammo ... even tanks that were mothballed and dumped into a lake in the 40s, pulled out and restarted with spare batteries, now.

 

[Len-2A Training]

I suspect that BATFE would claim a defaced S/N and order destruction. Perhaps a museum could appeal and win, but you or I? I doubt it.

 

[MAJoe]

I suspect that BATFE would claim a defaced S/N and order destruction. Perhaps a museum could appeal and win, but you or I? I doubt it.

Is a permanently deactivated weapon required to have a serial?

 

[BTSDOG]

Is a permanently deactivated weapon required to have a serial?

Just what makes it permanatley deactivated ???


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[MAJoe]

Just what makes it permanatley deactivated ???


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Federal Firearms Regulations Reference Guide

Permanently inoperable. A firearm
which is incapable of discharging a shot
by means of an explosive and incapable
of being readily restored to a firing condi-
tion. An acceptable method of rendering
most firearms permanently inoperable is
to fusion weld the chamber closed and fu-
sion weld the barrel solidly to the frame.
Certain unusual firearms require other
methods to render the firearm permanent-
ly inoperable. Contact ATF for instructions.

https://www.atf.gov/file/11241/download

 

[MGnoob]

Idk, if that was a transferable someone would repair it...the ones pictured dont seem readily restorable...it would be easier to build from scratch.

Call the atf or write them a letter....their opinion isnt worth as much as youd think.

 

[IPSC_DRL]

Just what makes it permanatley deactivated ???

See the picture in the OP.

 

[Len-2A Training]

See the picture in the OP.

Although I agree with you personally, I'm not certain that BATFE would agree with us.

 

[Mustang5L5]

I guess common sense just really doesn't apply when it involves the BATFE.

Would really suck to get in trouble for the rusted up mosin sitting in a display cabinet, rather than the functional one sitting in my safe. Funny how that scenario could actually happen


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[SpaceCritter]

Although I agree with you personally, I'm not certain that BATFE would agree with us.

Has anyone actually asked?

 

[Boris]

Has anyone actually asked?

best of luck BATFE servants of people don't always respond to peons. There is no phone (unless you are 02 or 07) for peons. You can write to WV office and hope that they tell you something, which they wont, because they need to physically look at it.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Has anyone actually asked?

No idea. You don't merely "ask" as I understand it. You build a case and supply BATFE with either pictures or a sample gun, requesting a ruling and wait for your letter ruling from the Technical Branch.

 

[MisterHappy]

best of luck BATFE servants of people don't always respond to peons. There is no phone (unless you are 02 or 07) for peons. You can write to WV office and hope that they tell you something, which they wont, because they need to physically look at it.

I disagree.

I called the local ATF branch a few years back, because I'd been offered (anonymously) a Cane Gun, that took a fixed cartridge.

I had several calls, all prefaced with, "I do not possess this item, and I've never been in its presence."

I was transferred around a bit, but in a helpful, as opposed to brush-off manner. I ended up with someone that was an AOW specialist, who when I told him the subject of the call, said, "We were just talking about cane guns."

Problem is, it's an AOW, as it took a fixed cartridge. Provenance was it was found in the back of Grandpa's closet. It had no SN. It had not been "amnestied" in, when it was allowed.

ATF dude asked, "What would you do with it?" I replied, "Are you kidding? I'd cherish it! It's the very definition of Curio and Relic!"

ATF dude agreed, and was sympathetic that it was a stupid situation - that a 37-inch long single shot was more of a threat than a 1911 under a coat.

I told them, that even though I did not get the answer I hoped for, I appreciated their time.

YMMV

 

[greencobra]

I'm not sure but have also watched those videos. I even tried some magnet fishing in the north river but only got some bottle caps and bick lighters. It would be awsome to be able to find those relics.

i'd be impressed if you came up with machine pistols, rifles, helmets, etc. not too many major battles happening near the north river in the last decade or two.

 

[KBCraig]

I disagree.

I called the local ATF branch a few years back, because I'd been offered (anonymously) a Cane Gun, that took a fixed cartridge.

I had several calls, all prefaced with, "I do not possess this item, and I've never been in its presence."

I was transferred around a bit, but in a helpful, as opposed to brush-off manner. I ended up with someone that was an AOW specialist, who when I told him the subject of the call, said, "We were just talking about cane guns."

Problem is, it's an AOW, as it took a fixed cartridge. Provenance was it was found in the back of Grandpa's closet. It had no SN. It had not been "amnestied" in, when it was allowed.

ATF dude asked, "What would you do with it?" I replied, "Are you kidding? I'd cherish it! It's the very definition of Curio and Relic!"

ATF dude agreed, and was sympathetic that it was a stupid situation - that a 37-inch long single shot was more of a threat than a 1911 under a coat.

I told them, that even though I did not get the answer I hoped for, I appreciated their time.

YMMV

You could always ask that it be added to "the list", or get a museum curator to certify it as a collectible. C&R and NFA have some curious interactions, but it could at least be legal.

In the hypothetical, of course, since this was years ago and you've never possessed nor been in the presence of such a hypothetical object.

 

[MisterHappy]

Oh, I'm sure it was real - though I never did get it.

I DID spitball it around with some (seemingly, at least) sympathetic BATF guys....after all, it's a friggin' single shot, not a WMD, but the best that thry could come up with was a donation to a museum, under some program that I was not familiar with. As for adding it to "the list," that was a no-go.

If there was another amnesty, like they had ~20 years ago, IIRC, that might have worked, but there was none.

I told the person offering it to me about the museum angle, and left it at that.


The point of my post is that it's not a given that all ATF folks are bad. In fact, a couple weeks after it was resolved (for lack of a better term), one of the ATF types that I'd left a voice mail called me back - they's been on vacation, or leave, or something. They just wanted to make sure my question had been answered.

 

[nutsym16]

Last amnesty 1968

 

[cetme24]

i'd be impressed if you came up with machine pistols, rifles, helmets, etc. not too many major battles happening near the north river in the last decade or two.

I knew I would not find war relics but the north river has a big history of ship building, manufacturing and the railroad ran along it. Oh the north river was also used as an ammo dump in Hanover around ww2. When the river was low you could pick up old shells and projectiles behind PA landers You never know what you will find in areas that shed no light on their previous life.