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Portuguese Rhodesian FAL?

kingson

kingson

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Any Rhodesian FAL experts out there? Just got this Post Sample full auto FAL in. Was told that it was made from a Rhodesian parts kit. But looking at it I believe that it was imported at a complete gun. The paper work says "Imported NFA Firearm" it has the RA serial numbers. The receiver says Fabrique Nationale on it. It has a crest on it that I thought was South African but after do a little research it has a Portugese Crest on it. Some Portugal FAL's did make it to the Rhodesian war. It still has some green paint on the take down latch and the pin that hold the upper and lower together. If I'm looking this up right, by the FN serial number (6740) it was made in 1953. Anyone got any info on this? And yes the handguard is wrong. 20220422_180229.jpg 20220422_180244.jpg 20220422_180251.jpg 20220422_180308.jpg 20220422_180315.jpg 20220422_180335.jpg
 
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From what I remember, Portugal only used a limited number of FALs before switching to the G3. There was a batch of G1s (West German FALs) going to Portugal when the contract ended and those went to Rhodesia. However, Portugal had both FNs and G1s. I'll check my Southern African firearms reference book when I get home tomorrow or Sunday to see if it has more details.

There's a few pages in Ian Douglas Smith's autobiography concerning a meeting he had with Portuguese right wing dictator Antonio de Oliveira Salazar. Apparently Salazar was eager to meet Smith and the two got along well. Considering Portugal's attempts to maintain control over Mozambique and Angola, Portuguese-Rhodesian relations were amicable.

You might be able to get precise contract serial number data as to which guns went to Portugal and thus Rhodesia from a FAL reference book, like something published by Collector Grade.

Finally, the rifle doesn't seem to have any "baby poop" camo paint except for on the disassembly lever and hingepin. Not all Rhodesian guns were painted, but many were in around 1978-79, when the country was Zimbabwe-Rhodesia and preparing to transition towards majority black rule. The lack of paint would indicate one of a few things: either someone removed the paint or the rifle was never painted in full. The only way to be certain would be to figure out how the rifle came into the US.
 
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Looks nice, but Portuguese arms are not my area of expertise. That abomination of a handguard HAS to go. Now.
 
Just to add, is there any indication of an importer's stamp? If the rifle came in as a post-86 machine gun, there should be some sort of import mark.

Rhodesian/Zimbabwean FAL semi-auto kits came into the US around the late 90s and early 00s, but with this being a post-86, my bet is that this came in as a lone gun during the Mugabe detente during the early to mid 90s. Zimbabwe enacted more restrictive gun control laws and disarmed people in the 80s approximately during Gukurahundi. Further, there's no ZA-stamps on the gun indicating Zimbabwean use.
 
C. Stockwell said:
Just to add, is there any indication of an importer's stamp? If the rifle came in as a post-86 machine gun, there should be some sort of import mark.

Rhodesian/Zimbabwean FAL semi-auto kits came into the US around the late 90s and early 00s, but with this being a post-86, my bet is that this came in as a lone gun during the Mugabe detente during the early to mid 90s. Zimbabwe enacted more restrictive gun control laws and disarmed people in the 80s approximately during Gukurahundi. Further, there's no ZA-stamps on the gun indicating Zimbabwean use.
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I can't find any import marks on it. If there is one they hid it well
 
kingson said:
I can't find any import marks on it. If there is one they hid it well
Click to expand...

Generally, NFA imports need an import mark:

Firearms - Guides - Importation & Verification of Firearms, Ammunition and Implements of War - Sales and / or Sales Samples | Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives

Of course, "generally" doesn't mean "always" and this gun would definitely qualify as a C&R both by age and provenance.

Sometimes FALs and their clones (DSA) are marked here in the US by stamping the inside of the mag well, if you haven't checked there yet.

Take a look at the barrel's proof marks, too. I'm curious if it's a FN or R1 barrel. Or a FN barrel with South African proofs. I notice that someone, probably South Africa, tried to remove the Portuguese crest. If you look closely, there's a clean half-circle going through the Portuguese crest. That's consistent with South African R1s and FALs that were sanitized and sent to Rhodesia. The Portuguese didn't directly arm the Rhodesians, so its unlikely the gun went from Mozambique to Rhodesia. Instead, these guns, these specific Portuguese FALs, went through South Africa first, then to Rhodesia.

That said, there were a lot of cross-border connections between Portuguese Mozambique and Rhodesia, with the two cooperating.
 
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C. Stockwell said:
Generally, NFA imports need an import mark:

Firearms - Guides - Importation & Verification of Firearms, Ammunition and Implements of War - Sales and / or Sales Samples | Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives

Of course, "generally" doesn't mean "always" and this gun would definitely qualify as a C&R both by age and provenance.

Sometimes FALs and their clones (DSA) are marked here in the US by stamping the inside of the mag well, if you haven't checked there yet.

Take a look at the barrel's proof marks, too. I'm curious if it's a FN or R1 barrel. Or a FN barrel with South African proofs. I notice that someone, probably South Africa, tried to remove the Portuguese crest. If you look closely, there's a clean half-circle going through the Portuguese crest. That's consistent with South African R1s and FALs that were sanitized and sent to Rhodesia. The Portuguese didn't directly arm the Rhodesians, so its unlikely the gun went from Mozambique to Rhodesia. Instead, these guns, these specific Portuguese FALs, went through South Africa first, then to Rhodesia.

That said, there were a lot of cross-border connections between Portuguese Mozambique and Rhodesia, with the two cooperating.
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Here are the markings on the barrel. Looks like the original barrel as the number matches the serial number.

20220422_212020.jpg 20220422_212045.jpg 20220422_212142.jpg 20220422_212403.jpg
20220422_211944.jpg
 
kingson said:
Here are the markings on the barrel. Looks like the original barrel as the number matches the serial number.
Click to expand...

The barrel also has the theta θ symbol in a couple places, which is the Belgian date code for 1953. Plus the receiver is a Type 1 with the original roll mark. So, not only do you have a Portuguese-probably South African-Rhodesian gun, it's also a first production year FAL.

The P-in-circle mark is I think a South African proof. But don't quote me on that yet because I haven't yet checked my book on SA guns.

Edit: there's also a U on the barrel, it is just a U or is it a U with a small M inside? That's a South African barrel proof.
 
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Picton said:
Looks nice, but Portuguese arms are not my area of expertise. That abomination of a handguard HAS to go. Now.
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Chevy 2 65 said:
^^^^^ This !! My father is rolling over in his grave !
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Is this better? The handguard looks to nice on this gun. I need to go and drag it around on the ground for a while to make it match the gun.

20220423_180630.jpg
 
Couple things:

(1) In 1975, when Angola received its independence from Portugal, South Africa bought up hundreds of thousands of surplus guns from both the newly independent Angola and Portugal. See pages 166-170 of Deadly Business by Patrick Brogan and Albert Zarca. Most of this was G3s, however, other guns in Portuguese service were sold as surplus to South Africa. Considering Portugal used its FALs for special forces purposes and the war in Angola heavily involved them, this is one way that Rhodesia via South Africa could've got a Portuguese FAL.

(2) If the U on the barrel is actually a U with an M inside, that's a South African proof mark. Meaning the gun definitely went through South Africa to Rhodesia.

Portuguese FALs are a pretty niche area considering Portugal bought way more G3s than FALs. If you want more information, I'd suggest either buying or interlibrary loaning the three-volume Collector Grade publication The FAL Rifle, which discusses "metric" FAL production history:

Amazon product ASIN B000J5LOI8View: https://www.amazon.com/FAL-Rifle-Deluxe-Classic-Volumes/dp/B000J5LOI8


That should give you an idea as to how the gun went from Portugal to Africa. As to how the gun got into the US, its going to be pretty hard to figure out unless you can find an importer's mark or figure out the import story. Like I mentioned previously, my bet is that this gun came into the US as a one-off.
 
C. Stockwell said:
The P-in-circle mark is I think a South African proof. But don't quote me on that yet because I haven't yet checked my book on SA guns.

Edit: there's also a U on the barrel, it is just a U or is it a U with a small M inside? That's a South African barrel proof.
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I finally got approved to post on FALfiles and posted over there also. They agree with you that the barrel is South African. It looks like it was a replacement barrel and stamped with the serial number to match the gun. Here are some pictures of the bolt and carrier. It looks like the bolt carrier is a South African. 20220424_112119.jpg 20220424_112502.jpg 20220424_112507.jpg 20220424_112556.jpg
20220424_112110.jpg
 
kingson said:
I finally got approved to post on FALfiles and posted over there also. They agree with you that the barrel is South African. It looks like it was a replacement barrel and stamped with the serial number to match the gun. Here are some pictures of the bolt and carrier. It looks like the bolt carrier is a South African.
Click to expand...

Yup, the bolt carrier is clearly South African. I can't identify the proofs on the bolt, but clearly the bolt isn't matching based on the serial numbers. As far as I know, FN never used letter prefixes on FALs, so my hunch, and its just a hunch, is that the bolt is also South African.

What I find curious is that South Africa took the time to put on a new barrel, bolt carrier, and possibly bolt, but they didn't property mark the upper with a SADF property mark. Probably because the rifle was going to Rhodesia and the SADF didn't consider the effort time worthy or politically expeditious. By 1975, when SA bought up the guns from Angola and Portugal, both Rhodesia and South Africa were hurting badly. The Carter Administration was not friendly to either, and per Ian Smith, it was South Africa who pushed the Rhodesian Front white Rhodesian government to agree to a settlement with the black nationalist/Marxist groups in 1976 once the Portuguese left Mozambique in 1975.
 
I got to finally shoot this gun yesterday and holy crap, what a pleasant gun to shoot in full auto. I thought it was going to beat me up but the recoil wasn't that bad. If you do 3-5 round bursts it was fairly easy to control. If you just hold the trigger down it still isn't bad but it will climb up and to the right. I did have issues with semi auto, The selector had to be just in the right place, just after the semi auto setting to work in semi auto. I will have to figure out what is worn out and replace it. For a 50-60 year old gun it shoots good in full auto. But overall it is fun to shoot in full auto.
 
So I just found out some more history of this gun. The place I got it from bought it in 2007 and used it as a range rental gun. They gave me the number of the guy that they got it from and I called him a week ago and left a message on his phone. He called me back today and gave me a little more history of the gun. The guy was out of TX and he was a cop down there. He had his FFL and SOT and bought 2 sequential serial numbered post sample FN FALs in like 2006 and the gun I got he used as his duty gun. Instead of having an AR-15 he would use the FAL because he thought that it was more mean looking and might deescalate thing faster. He sold the FAL that I got in 2007 and kept the other one. He said that when he gave up his SOT the Dallas ATF came and got all of his post samples. So the other FAL is either at the Dallas ATF or destroyed of maybe at the ATF reference library that they have. So I looked on the internet and found the name of the guy he bought it from and just emailed him to see if he had any history on the gun. Hopefully that gentleman will get back to me. Oh also he said that when he got it it didn't have a carry handle and he put on the one that is on it now.
 
kingson said:
I got to finally shoot this gun yesterday and holy crap, what a pleasant gun to shoot in full auto. I thought it was going to beat me up but the recoil wasn't that bad. If you do 3-5 round bursts it was fairly easy to control. If you just hold the trigger down it still isn't bad but it will climb up and to the right. I did have issues with semi auto, The selector had to be just in the right place, just after the semi auto setting to work in semi auto. I will have to figure out what is worn out and replace it. For a 50-60 year old gun it shoots good in full auto. But overall it is fun to shoot in full auto.
Click to expand...

If you're going to be shooting full auto frequently with that gun, you'll want to get a Halbek device. A Halbek is basically a welded-together sleeve with holes that clips on over the compensator. The point of the Halbek is to reduce muzzle flip.



Rhodesian tactical doctrine was to shoot in full auto into cover that might contain insurgents. Out of all the military forces that used the FAL, Rhodesian doctrine was one of the more full auto friendly ones.
 
So I tracked the gun back through 3 owners in the US to Century Arms. The guy that got it from Century Arms got it like 25ish years ago. I email Century to see if they where the importer and if they where could they tell me when and where they imported it from. This is the response I got
" Thank you for the inquiry regarding the history of your firearm. We offer a richly diverse mix of products, unfortunately, we do not create historical profiles on firearms, nor do we employ any historians. The allure of firearm collecting includes learning the history from various open sources and creating your own history while safely using your acquisition. "
When did the Rhodesian parts kits start coming in to the country and from what country? I'm sure that Century was the importer of this rifle and it was probably imported about the same time as all the parts kit, I would imagine.
 
Really enjoying this thread.
When I was a kid, reading SoF magazine, the FAL was my fantasy rifle.
You're making me want one again.
....Thanks.

( I have no rational reason at all to go looking for a FAL)
 
kingson said:
So I tracked the gun back through 3 owners in the US to Century Arms. The guy that got it from Century Arms got it like 25ish years ago. I email Century to see if they where the importer and if they where could they tell me when and where they imported it from. This is the response I got
" Thank you for the inquiry regarding the history of your firearm. We offer a richly diverse mix of products, unfortunately, we do not create historical profiles on firearms, nor do we employ any historians. The allure of firearm collecting includes learning the history from various open sources and creating your own history while safely using your acquisition. "
When did the Rhodesian parts kits start coming in to the country and from what country? I'm sure that Century was the importer of this rifle and it was probably imported about the same time as all the parts kit, I would imagine.
Click to expand...

Rhodesian kits came in from Zimbabwe during the mid-to-late 90s and into the early 00s. By around 2010, surplus had mostly dried up. Most of the guys who bought up the FAL parts kits back then are on FAL Files. Further, if you use reddit, there's r/FNFAL and r/Rhodesia.

Some Rhodesian stuff did trickle into South Africa with individual Rhodesians as the country transitioned from Rhodesia to Zimbabwe-Rhodesia to Zimbabwe. With two specific guns, it's possible that the two came from a specific place or collection in South Africa after a Rhodesian emigrant brought them there.

While Rhodesians did emigrate to other countries than South Africa, it's unlikely they took their machine guns to the UK or Australia or New Zealand. Even getting two machine guns in the US would've been complicated between say 1978 and 1986-now.

Some parts kits came out of Namibia, which was under South African occupation during the 80s. But there's no direct proof of this for this gun, just the possibility.
 
C. Stockwell said:
Rhodesian kits came in from Zimbabwe during the mid-to-late 90s and into the early 00s. By around 2010, surplus had mostly dried up. Most of the guys who bought up the FAL parts kits back then are on FAL Files. Further, if you use reddit, there's r/FNFAL and r/Rhodesia.

Some Rhodesian stuff did trickle into South Africa with individual Rhodesians as the country transitioned from Rhodesia to Zimbabwe-Rhodesia to Zimbabwe. With two specific guns, it's possible that the two came from a specific place or collection in South Africa after a Rhodesian emigrant brought them there.

While Rhodesians did emigrate to other countries than South Africa, it's unlikely they took their machine guns to the UK or Australia or New Zealand. Even getting two machine guns in the US would've been complicated between say 1978 and 1986-now.

Some parts kits came out of Namibia, which was under South African occupation during the 80s. But there's no direct proof of this for this gun, just the possibility.
Click to expand...
If the parts kits came in in the mid to late 90's that would line up wit the time line of Century importing this rifle because the guy that got it from Century got it like 25ish years ago that would put his acquisition of this rifle in the late 90's. Here is what believe is the history of the rifle.

"It started life in Portugal and then went to Africa when Portugal was there, then somehow when to South Africa (probably sold to them) because it looks like it was rebuilt there. It has a South African barrel, bolt, bolt carrier and R1 lower. The barrel serial number matching the original serial number on the gun would indicate that it went to South Africa before going to Rhodesia Then it looks like it when to Rhodesia because it has Rhodesian serial numbers on it. I have tracked it through 3 owners here in the USA back to Century Arms. I believe that they imported it 25ish years ago probably around the same time as the Rhodesian parts kits came into the country. One of the owners in the US was a police officer and used it as his duty gun for about a year and then sold it in 2007 to a place that rents out machine guns and that's where I got it from."
 
kingson said:
If the parts kits came in in the mid to late 90's that would line up wit the time line of Century importing this rifle because the guy that got it from Century got it like 25ish years ago that would put his acquisition of this rifle in the late 90's. Here is what believe is the history of the rifle.

"It started life in Portugal and then went to Africa when Portugal was there, then somehow when to South Africa (probably sold to them) because it looks like it was rebuilt there. It has a South African barrel, bolt, bolt carrier and R1 lower. The barrel serial number matching the original serial number on the gun would indicate that it went to South Africa before going to Rhodesia Then it looks like it when to Rhodesia because it has Rhodesian serial numbers on it. I have tracked it through 3 owners here in the USA back to Century Arms. I believe that they imported it 25ish years ago probably around the same time as the Rhodesian parts kits came into the country. One of the owners in the US was a police officer and used it as his duty gun for about a year and then sold it in 2007 to a place that rents out machine guns and that's where I got it from."
Click to expand...

That's about what I figured. Portugal --> Portuguese Angola --> South Africa --> Rhodesia/Zimbabwe --> USA probably via Century. It's possible that there was another importer, but without a stamp or definitive answer, we can't say.
 
What an awesome thread, I absolutely love these. Wealth of knowledge here.
I love me a fal and the stories and variations behind them are just so damn cool.
 

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