Poll: Pistol-caliber carbine VS Carbine-caliber pistols.

Which is better for its intended purpose?


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  • Poll closed .

Boris

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is there bar poll thingie?

pistol cal carbines are used, have been used a lot since WWII. Suomi 9mm was 1MOA from factory. PPSh is a monster sprayer. Pistols in car cal doesn't seem to exist in real life a good reason.
 

Rockrivr1

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I've shot an AR Pistol a few times and it just seems like overkill to me. It's heavy, awkward, and the buffer tube just screams to put a stock in it. Between the two I'd go 45 carbine.
 
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I like the idea of a pistol AR, sig brace feels like a stock. I f it were legal in mass i could carry it concealed, whether it be under a trench coat or in a backpack. Lots of power, little package.

Trench coat was a joke.
 

MisterHappy

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well, cartridge arms have been around for ~150 years, and most things that can be thought of, have been tried.

The only time in that time period where handguns and shoulder arms had the same cartridge was back in the day, when the cowboys had one cartridge for both (e.g. .44-40).
 

StevieP

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The only time in that time period where handguns and shoulder arms had the same cartridge was back in the day, when the cowboys had one cartridge for both (e.g. .44-40).

Boris' post is contrary to this.

Plenty of Keltec, Colt, Beretta, RRA, and other carbines have been sold in 9mm, .40, .45, and other calibers.
 

kalash

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obrez4-cover.jpg
 

frenchman

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The only AR pistol that makes sense is a 300 blackout with a barrel 9 inch and over, as the cartridge is designed to burn all its powder in a 9 inch barrel. Pistol caliber carbines are stupid IMO, as they weigh as much as rifle caliber carbines, but have (way) less power. Rifle cal pistols lose way too much velocity, which takes the point out of it. There ain't no such thing as a free lunch. Give up barrel length, lose power. When you consider bullet weight, a .223 in 55 grain out of a 7 inch barrel will not have much more energy on target than a comon 9 mm out of the average pistol barrel. So, what's the point?
 

SemiAutoSam

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For me its the ability to have a rifle caliber pistol In my truck loaded that gives me a bit of an advantage if I ever need it.


The only AR pistol that makes sense is a 300 blackout with a barrel 9 inch and over, as the cartridge is designed to burn all its powder in a 9 inch barrel. Pistol caliber carbines are stupid IMO, as they weigh as much as rifle caliber carbines, but have (way) less power. Rifle cal pistols lose way too much velocity, which takes the point out of it. There ain't no such thing as a free lunch. Give up barrel length, lose power. When you consider bullet weight, a .223 in 55 grain out of a 7 inch barrel will not have much more energy on target than a comon 9 mm out of the average pistol barrel. So, what's the point?
 

edmorseiii

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The only AR pistol that makes sense is a 300 blackout with a barrel 9 inch and over, as the cartridge is designed to burn all its powder in a 9 inch barrel.

They are super quiet out of a can as well. The sound of the bullet hitting what ever you are shooting at after the cat sneeze from the gun is as satisfying as picking at a big scab on your knee.
 

bigblue

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PCC's make sense to me for the same reason that sub machine guns do: The ability to put a large number of rounds on target in a very controllable package. With both you can easily suppress but still maintain function and ballistic effectiveness.

With a rifle caliber pistol you lose the whole reason for the rifle cartridge (velocity) and have a tiny little projectile. A 5.56 round fired out of a 6" barrel has a velocity of 2,000 fps. If you suppress that weapon you may as well be firing .22 subsonic so wtf is the point of that? You will barely be able to cycle the bolt let alone do anything approaching damage bc the 5.56 projectile relies on velocities in excess of 2,700 fps to be effective.

For my money the 9mm PCC is an excellent choice since it can be built in MA to accept 32 round Uzi magazines and a barrel length of 5-7". There is very little velocity gain for 9mm when exceeding a 6" barrel length (something like 10-15 fps per inch of barrel).
 

edmorseiii

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If you suppress that weapon you may as well be firing .22 subsonic so wtf is the point of that?

First, wat?

Second, anyone who want's to use 5.56 and have it be useful should understands 10.3" is the minimum barrel length to still keep slaying bodies.

But I am interested why suppressing 5.56 would make it the same as .22 subsonic, go on.
 

bigblue

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First, wat?

Second, anyone who want's to use 5.56 and have it be useful should understands 10.3" is the minimum barrel length to still keep slaying bodies.

But I am interested why suppressing 5.56 would make it the same as .22 subsonic, go on.

In order to get full suppression you need to get 5.56 under the speed of sound (1,100 fps) or you will hear the sonic boom when the bullet breaks the sound barrier (the "crack" of the shot). At 1,100 fps a 5.56 round is basically a subsonic .22.

You disagree with this?
 

edmorseiii

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In order to get full suppression you need to get 5.56 under the speed of sound (1,100 fps) or you will hear the sonic boom when the bullet breaks the sound barrier (the "crack" of the shot). At 1,100 fps a 5.56 round is basically a subsonic .22.

You disagree with this?

Rgr. Down loading 5.56 to subsonic speeds. I agree with this. However, suppressing a 5.56 out of a 10" barrel is still very much hearing comfortable, so down loading to useless speeds is only useful if you are the biggest of ninja retards.
 

bigblue

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Rgr. Down loading 5.56 to subsonic speeds. I agree with this. However, suppressing a 5.56 out of a 10" barrel is still very much hear comfortable, so down loading to useless speeds is only useful if you are the biggest of ninja retards.

Well my argument was that it wasn't actually useful so...

Yes throwing a can on a 10.5" 5.56 will deaden the explosion but compared to a FULLY suppressed 9mm PCC there is far more sound.
 

bigblue

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I have to go to sleep, the wife is waiting...

And I'm not nearly drunk enough to keep going down this rabbit hole with you.
 

edmorseiii

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I have to go to sleep, the wife is waiting...

And I'm not nearly drunk enough to keep going down this rabbit hole with you.

unless you are running subsonic 9mm, you face the same issue.

tell your wife you have important shit to do, I usually do when I am in on some NES nonsense.
 

bigblue

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Well 9mm is still useful when run subsonic and at 147gr can be damn effective: 1,000 fps for 147 gr is a hot load, if you know what I mean.

My wife says she IS important shit to do.
 

edmorseiii

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Well 9mm is still useful when run subsonic and at 147gr can be damn effective: 1,000 fps for 147 gr is a hot load, if you know what I mean.

M193 cruises through a 10.5" at ~2600-2700 fps. 30 rounds of that will do way more damage then 30 rounds of any 9mm load you can push through a rifle barrel, even if it is quieter.

My wife says she IS important shit to do.

Bruh, you know that is debatable. [laugh]
 
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bigblue

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M193 cruises through a 10.5" at ~2600-2700 fps. 30 rounds of that will do way more damage then 30 rounds of any 9mm load you can push through a rifle barrel, even if it is quieter.

I disagree: The 9mm will unleash almost all of its energy on the initial target whereas the M193 will be more likely to just penetrate through and through. You need to get the velocity up closer to 3,000 fps to have reliable spawling in soft targets.

Either way the 9mm you would only hear the bolt click where the 5.56 would breathe fire & make tons of noise. Suppressed subsonic 9mm is way more tacticool ninja.
 
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