Poll: M14 Build- How Will It Shoot?

M14 Build- How Will It Shoot?

  • DOA - No signs of life, LOL

    Votes: 2 10.5%
  • 6 MOA or higher. Minute of barn door...

    Votes: 1 5.3%
  • 4 - 6 MOA. Sewer pipe accuracy.

    Votes: 1 5.3%
  • 1 -3 MOA. Good.

    Votes: 14 73.7%
  • Sub MOA - Laser!

    Votes: 1 5.3%

  • Total voters
    19

Mountain

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Looks like the Bula M14 build will be ready for its first range day this weekend. First time I have built a M14/M1A, so no idea how I did. My .308 Garand build could hold SR-1 10 ring until the front hand guard came loose (normal loose, like USGI). Have not shot the .308 since accurizing work.

Here's a chance to guess how I'll do and/or stir some crap [laugh]. For purposes of testing, once I sight in (if possible) I will shoot 5 shot groups at 100 yards.
 
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100-10x

Do you plan on doing any sort of barrel break in?

Poll now posted above.

For those not familiar with the SR-1 target, the 10-ring is 3.35" in diameter (for 100 score) but the X-ring (for a 10X, or 5X in my case) is only 1.35" diameter.

I'll do a little break-in- I'll clean after the first shot, then after 2, then after 5.

Some more background:

I've built 1/2 MOA AR's. Admittedly, the M1A is a different animal. Barrel is a Bula medium weight. Stock is 'as issued' USGI but has been restored by LRB.

I'll try different types of factory ammo- Black Hills, Creedmoor Lapua, PPU Match, maybe Hornady. IMO, the Black Hills kinda sucks in this caliber so that will be my break-in ammo.

Pics later.
 
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Come on run a real test ...pick up some M80 and roll with it.
Barrel break in.... Just clean it before you shoot it to get the rust inhibator/oil out.

I'm going to give you a 10ring capable vote.
 
Mine is shooting NOTABLY better with XM80 than with PPU 168gr Match and Federal Gold SMK 168gr match. I had some pretty decent groups with my first batch of reloads, but then had my inconsistent accuracy issues and will be going back to my reloads. I just hope yours shoots better than mine at this point. You've had more experience in the M1 build category, so I'm going to assume yours will be sub 3moa.

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And that's after a VERY extensive...proper to the book beak in, so I know that's not the issue with MY rifle at least.

Did you get the 22"?
 
Yes, 22" barrel. XM80 result better than match ammo could have something to do with a tight fit in the chamber. Bula dimensions are between 7.62 and .308 for headspace. The .308 match ammo might be on the loose side in your chamber. Haven't made any measurements yet, but I did get a cartridge/headspace gauge to resize my .308 brass only enough to clear.

Probably I will only be shooting factory ammo for the M14 test. And I'm referring to it as M14 because that's what's on the receiver [grin]. Need to spend some time with Mrs. Mountain tonight and if I am reloading I should be getting ahead for Vermont to have loads for 3 matches- Springfield, JC Garand, and Vintage. We'll see if the M14 displaces my old school AR upper- that would be welcome but not likely...

I've had good results with PPU Match in any caliber. Federal Match in .223 has been a mixed bag- sometimes awesome, other times not getting match worthy results.
 
Does the M14 need to settle in the stock like a Garand? I'm thinking yes, but maybe a little less so due to the metal stock liner.
 
Mine is shooting NOTABLY better with XM80 than with PPU 168gr Match and Federal Gold SMK 168gr match. I had some pretty decent groups with my first batch of reloads, but then had my inconsistent accuracy issues and will be going back to my reloads. I just hope yours shoots better than mine at this point. You've had more experience in the M1 build category, so I'm going to assume yours will be sub 3moa.

- - - Updated - - -

And that's after a VERY extensive...proper to the book beak in, so I know that's not the issue with MY rifle at least.

Did you get the 22"?

i just find this odd that that M80 ball shit shoots better than FGMM or even ppu.
 
Yes, 22" barrel. XM80 result better than match ammo could have something to do with a tight fit in the chamber. Bula dimensions are between 7.62 and .308 for headspace. The .308 match ammo might be on the loose side in your chamber. Haven't made any measurements yet, but I did get a cartridge/headspace gauge to resize my .308 brass only enough to clear.

Probably I will only be shooting factory ammo for the M14 test. And I'm referring to it as M14 because that's what's on the receiver [grin]. Need to spend some time with Mrs. Mountain tonight and if I am reloading I should be getting ahead for Vermont to have loads for 3 matches- Springfield, JC Garand, and Vintage. We'll see if the M14 displaces my old school AR upper- that would be welcome but not likely...

I've had good results with PPU Match in any caliber. Federal Match in .223 has been a mixed bag- sometimes awesome, other times not getting match worthy results.

it would have to be very loose IMHO heck your variations in cartridge head space are greater from min to max than thr chamber. Checking case and chamber drawing specs is enough for you to scratch your head more than once.
If I feel up to it I will post all the case and chamber specs i can find.
7.62 nato is cut a bit looser only because NATO ammo could be from anywhere in the world. Add in battle conditions, dust , dirt and what have you. You can run into some free bore problems with some of the longer heavier bullets but im doubting that with todays manufacturing.

- - - Updated - - -

Does the M14 need to settle in the stock like a Garand? I'm thinking yes, but maybe a little less so due to the metal stock liner.

i would think so.... a handful of settling shots does not hurt.
 
i would think so.... a handful of settling shots does not hurt.

pretty much what I thought... When I get mine all ready I plan on shooting 30-50 rounds just to let the stock settle in, and all the parked surfaces wear in a little bit, etc. Then it's time to shoot some "for score".
 
Poll now posted above.

For those not familiar with the SR-1 target, the 10-ring is 3.35" in diameter (for 100 score) but the X-ring (for a 10X, or 5X in my case) is only 1.35" diameter.

I'll do a little break-in- I'll clean after the first shot, then after 2, then after 5.

Some more background:

I've built 1/2 MOA AR's. Admittedly, the M1A is a different animal. Barrel is a Bula medium weight. Stock is 'as issued' USGI but has been restored by LRB.

I'll try different types of factory ammo- Black Hills, Creedmoor Lapua, PPU Match, maybe Hornady. IMO, the Black Hills kinda sucks in this caliber so that will be my break-in ammo.

Pics later.

Did you use the Bula parts kit or others? Unitized gas cylinder? Any NM parts other than the barrel?
 
Any one have the specs or drawing # F6511841 for the target used in the M14 accuracy and targeting test.
 
Bula parts kit. No NM parts other than the barrel. GC not unitized. But it won't matter for a few days...

If anyone had guessed DOA [laugh] they would have been right. Trigger broke at the pivot pin- probably user error. Lock-up is super tight in my stock and I may have dislodged the trigger when putting the action back in and jammed it on something. Sucks, but first time I've screwed up like this on a build.

Until next week...

- - - Updated - - -

No reason it shouldn't perform reasonably well.

t

No reason except for me...
 
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A match - grade M14 is a 1 MOA rifle. You will get some groups tighter, you will get some groups looser, but average then all, it's a 1 MOA rifle.

No match preparation? Anywhere from 1 to 3 MOA.
 
Bula parts kit. No NM parts other than the barrel. GC not unitized. But it won't matter for a few days...

If anyone had guessed DOA [laugh] they would have been right. Trigger broke at the pivot pin- probably user error. Lock-up is super tight in my stock and I may have dislodged the trigger when putting the action back in and jammed it on something. Sucks, but first time I've screwed up like this on a build.

Until next week...

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No reason except for me...

Dang wtf.... I had a trigger pin break on my garand but looking at a garand trigger breakage at the pin would have to be more of a poor metal quality or maybe trigger pin was to tight?
How are the trigger parts made these days. Cast , forged, machined, lazer cut?
 
I had a b!tch of a time getting that little trigger pin in. I'm wondering if yours wasn't seated all of the way?
 
Yeah, that trigger pin was a major B until I figured out that my rubber jaw ski vise would hold everything in place while I jockey in the pin. However, that wasn't the problem and the pin is intact and fully seated.

What I think I did was somehow bang into the trigger when getting that stubborn guard to lock. Either that or I accidentally released the trigger and internally jammed it on something when locking up.

Not much meat on the trigger at the pin, and I'm quite certain that the trigger is a small investment casting. I had taken some every cloth to a parting line on the trigger then gave it a quick buff.
 
Yeah, that trigger pin was a major B until I figured out that my rubber jaw ski vise would hold everything in place while I jockey in the pin. However, that wasn't the problem and the pin is intact and fully seated.

What I think I did was somehow bang into the trigger when getting that stubborn guard to lock. Either that or I accidentally released the trigger and internally jammed it on something when locking up.

Not much meat on the trigger at the pin, and I'm quite certain that the trigger is a small investment casting. I had taken some every cloth to a parting line on the trigger then gave it a quick buff.

I cant really see the trigger breaking with out damage to the pin also unless the casting was weak?
 
Here's the learn from my mistake evidence:

IYIseAQh.jpg
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Only a few nicks on the pin shaft, and I'm sure that's from the sharp broken edges of the trigger pieces. I'll polish those a little and keep as a spare.

Probably will order replacement trigger and spare from Treeline- they have good stock for M14/M1A parts and great service. Pissed at myself for f-ing this up. The pull and break were really nice, right out of the box. Maybe I should call Bula and order from them to see if I'll get the same nice result (nice break, not broken trigger...).

Hoping the work on the .308 Garand results in improved accuracy. I'd start a poll on that but don't want to jinx it. [wink]
 
Here's the learn from my mistake evidence:

IYIseAQh.jpg
[/url][/IMG]

Only a few nicks on the pin shaft, and I'm sure that's from the sharp broken edges of the trigger pieces. I'll polish those a little and keep as a spare.

Probably will order replacement trigger and spare from Treeline- they have good stock for M14/M1A parts and great service. Pissed at myself for f-ing this up. The pull and break were really nice, right out of the box. Maybe I should call Bula and order from them to see if I'll get the same nice result (nice break, not broken trigger...).

Hoping the work on the .308 Garand results in improved accuracy. I'd start a poll on that but don't want to jinx it. [wink]
So do you know how you broke it? I'm trying to think of how that happened. You would need to really pull on that thing, no. I would inspect every part to see if there's any sign of binding. Other than that I'm calling shitty cast.
 
Back in business! After the damn USPS lost my package yet scanned it delivered, I complained to the postmaster and my replacement trigger magically appeared at my front door yesterday. New trigger & pin already installed last night. Pulls a little harder than the one I broke, so needs some work. Also decided to secure the op rod guide with JB weld in addition to the pin.

Unlike Garand trigger guards, the M14/M1a guards come very close to the trigger when you are closing the guard. Pretty sure I caught the now broken trigger when bumping the guard closed with a rubber mallet.

I'll be shooting my 6.5 Creedmoor at Granby tomorrow but plan to drag the M14 along unless I have a chance for a quick range trip this evening.
 
Inaugural Bula M14 shots today after my Granby long range orientation. Did a quick trigger job last night to bring the break down to 5 lbs even.

5wPx5gSh.jpg


From the long range, the first position is 177 yards. Eyeballed the sights and barely missed a ~6" (maybe 8") square steel plate. Grabbed a spotter and sent some to a IPSC plate at 367 yards. Barely missed above the right shoulder- twice. Per the spotter, made some very cool vapor trails when the rounds were close to the target. Good enough for the first three shots out of a new build. Lord knows I've chased shots for AR builds all over the 25 yard berm, LOL. I'm either getting better at builds or have a string of increasing luck. Prior to accurizing my .308 Garand build, the first shots were OK but nothing to write home about.

First group of 5 at 100 yards was under ~1.8". Shot 3 groups of 3 to further dial in sights and not waste too much ammo. Worst was a hair over 1.6", two were almost exactly 1.5" I know 3 shot groups don't count for much, but in each of the 3 groups there were two shots very close. Average distance between the closest two shots was less than 0.27". Promising, and with factory PPU Match as well.

Very good accuracy for a new steel and wood build. I'll clean and lightly lap the barrel, plus there's probably some settling in to do between the stock and action. Groups were mostly spread vertically, so that's probably my eyes and skill a bit and perhaps careful reloading could tighten the groups vertically.

More or less split the middle between my 1-3" poll choice, so everyone who voted there was correct.
 
Inaugural Bula M14 shots today after my Granby long range orientation. Did a quick trigger job last night to bring the break down to 5 lbs even.

5wPx5gSh.jpg


From the long range, the first position is 177 yards. Eyeballed the sights and barely missed a ~6" (maybe 8") square steel plate. Grabbed a spotter and sent some to a IPSC plate at 367 yards. Barely missed above the right shoulder- twice. Per the spotter, made some very cool vapor trails when the rounds were close to the target. Good enough for the first three shots out of a new build. Lord knows I've chased shots for AR builds all over the 25 yard berm, LOL. I'm either getting better at builds or have a string of increasing luck. Prior to accurizing my .308 Garand build, the first shots were OK but nothing to write home about.

First group of 5 at 100 yards was under ~1.8". Shot 3 groups of 3 to further dial in sights and not waste too much ammo. Worst was a hair over 1.6", two were almost exactly 1.5" I know 3 shot groups don't count for much, but in each of the 3 groups there were two shots very close. Average distance between the closest two shots was less than 0.27". Promising, and with factory PPU Match as well.

Very good accuracy for a new steel and wood build. I'll clean and lightly lap the barrel, plus there's probably some settling in to do between the stock and action. Groups were mostly spread vertically, so that's probably my eyes and skill a bit and perhaps careful reloading could tighten the groups vertically.

More or less split the middle between my 1-3" poll choice, so everyone who voted there was correct.
prone , bench, sling ? Nice shooting I was VERY happy to see under 2" groups with my Garand "build"
 
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