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Police will be at Wellesley High School after firearm is found at nearby Hunnewell Field

Freddy B

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Globe article. Found this part interesting: "Police are trying to trace the history of the firearm with the help of the US Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives which maintains a database of firearms. “It does not appear to be registered in Massachusetts,” police wrote."
 

mlaboss

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Globe article. Found this part interesting: "Police are trying to trace the history of the firearm with the help of the US Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives which maintains a database of firearms. “It does not appear to be registered in Massachusetts,” police wrote."

That part is probably the reporter not understanding how an ATF trace actually works. The jist of it is the following:
  1. Law enforcement calls the ATF National Tracing Center and gives them the manufacturer or importer name and serial number of the gun.
  2. ATF calls the manufacturer or importer and has them look up the gun in their bound book and tell them who it was sent to (usually a distributor)
  3. ATF calls the distributor and has them look up the gun in their bound book and tell them who it was sent to (usually a retailer)
  4. ATF calls the retailer and has them look up the gun in their bound book and tell them who it was transferred to (usually an individual)
  5. If any of the FFLs in the chain are no longer in business, their bound books will be at the Out of Business Records Center at the ATF and can be consulted there.
  6. From there the trail may or may not go cold depending on what happened to the gun after it was transferred to the individual. Perhaps it was reported as stolen, or maybe they sold it to someone in a private sale and don't have any record of who they sold it to.
Since it wasn't in the MA system it wasn't purchased from a MA dealer since dealers are required to report sales/transfers to MIRCS, so if the ATF trace doesn't turn up anything then they're not going to figure out who had it last without further investigation.

Fact Sheet - National Tracing Center | Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives
 

milktree

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So, say you're walking your dog and find a bag with a handgun and ammunition it. Assume you're sufficiently licensed.

Do you...

1) turn it in to the police and forget about it
2) put it in your safe and shoot it
3) try to claim "found property" and insist the police give it back to you after they've determined it wasn't either stolen or used in a crime
 

WanMan99

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So, say you're walking your dog and find a bag with a handgun and ammunition it. Assume you're sufficiently licensed.

Do you...

1) turn it in to the police and forget about it
2) put it in your safe and shoot it
3) try to claim "found property" and insist the police give it back to you after they've determined it wasn't either stolen or used in a crime

#1
You don't want to get jacked up over a possible murder gun or someone else's stolen property. Just turn it in and if no one claims it and its not stolen you should end up with it after a certain amount of time has passed.
 

milktree

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#1
You don't want to get jacked up over a possible murder gun or someone else's stolen property. Just turn it in and if no one claims it and its not stolen you should end up with it after a certain amount of time has passed.

So, "3" then?
 
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That part is probably the reporter not understanding how an ATF trace actually works. The jist of it is the following:
  1. Law enforcement calls the ATF National Tracing Center and gives them the manufacturer or importer name and serial number of the gun.
  2. ATF calls the manufacturer or importer and has them look up the gun in their bound book and tell them who it was sent to (usually a distributor)
  3. ATF calls the distributor and has them look up the gun in their bound book and tell them who it was sent to (usually a retailer)
  4. ATF calls the retailer and has them look up the gun in their bound book and tell them who it was transferred to (usually an individual)
  5. If any of the FFLs in the chain are no longer in business, their bound books will be at the Out of Business Records Center at the ATF and can be consulted there.
  6. From there the trail may or may not go cold depending on what happened to the gun after it was transferred to the individual. Perhaps it was reported as stolen, or maybe they sold it to someone in a private sale and don't have any record of who they sold it to.
Since it wasn't in the MA system it wasn't purchased from a MA dealer since dealers are required to report sales/transfers to MIRCS, so if the ATF trace doesn't turn up anything then they're not going to figure out who had it last without further investigation.

Fact Sheet - National Tracing Center | Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives

Can't the ATF just throw a query out to the 4473s they dont discard and save some steps?
 

Dennis in MA

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#1
You don't want to get jacked up over a possible murder gun or someone else's stolen property. Just turn it in and if no one claims it and its not stolen you should end up with it after a certain amount of time has passed.

[rofl][rofl][rofl][rofl]

You honestly think that, without significant effort on your part the police will just willingly give you the gun back AND store it well in the meantime????
 
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So, say you're walking your dog and find a bag with a handgun and ammunition it. Assume you're sufficiently licensed.

Do you...

1) turn it in to the police and forget about it
2) put it in your safe and shoot it
3) try to claim "found property" and insist the police give it back to you after they've determined it wasn't either stolen or used in a crime
Be sure to cite MGL Chapter 134, sections 1 and 3 when doing so.
 

Chevy 2 65

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That part is probably the reporter not understanding how an ATF trace actually works. The jist of it is the following:
  1. Law enforcement calls the ATF National Tracing Center and gives them the manufacturer or importer name and serial number of the gun.
  2. ATF calls the manufacturer or importer and has them look up the gun in their bound book and tell them who it was sent to (usually a distributor)
  3. ATF calls the distributor and has them look up the gun in their bound book and tell them who it was sent to (usually a retailer)
  4. ATF calls the retailer and has them look up the gun in their bound book and tell them who it was transferred to (usually an individual)
  5. If any of the FFLs in the chain are no longer in business, their bound books will be at the Out of Business Records Center at the ATF and can be consulted there.
  6. From there the trail may or may not go cold depending on what happened to the gun after it was transferred to the individual. Perhaps it was reported as stolen, or maybe they sold it to someone in a private sale and don't have any record of who they sold it to.
Since it wasn't in the MA system it wasn't purchased from a MA dealer since dealers are required to report sales/transfers to MIRCS, so if the ATF trace doesn't turn up anything then they're not going to figure out who had it last without further investigation.

Fact Sheet - National Tracing Center | Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives
View: https://youtu.be/1N118jYj2cA
 

snax

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So, say you're walking your dog and find a bag with a handgun and ammunition it. Assume you're sufficiently licensed.

Do you...

1) turn it in to the police and forget about it
2) put it in your safe and shoot it
3) try to claim "found property" and insist the police give it back to you after they've determined it wasn't either stolen or used in a crime


4) Keep it, Hide it. SHTF gun, or drop gun... just in case you are in a self defense situation that may need it.
 

Len-2A Training

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So, say you're walking your dog and find a bag with a handgun and ammunition it. Assume you're sufficiently licensed.

Do you...

1) turn it in to the police and forget about it
2) put it in your safe and shoot it
3) try to claim "found property" and insist the police give it back to you after they've determined it wasn't either stolen or used in a crime

#1
You don't want to get jacked up over a possible murder gun or someone else's stolen property. Just turn it in and if no one claims it and its not stolen you should end up with it after a certain amount of time has passed.

Be sure to cite MGL Chapter 134, sections 1 and 3 when doing so.

I agree with #3, turn it in and try to claim it. I'm certain that 90+% of PDs will go to the wall even in a lawsuit before giving up the gun to the one who found it after the time limit.
 

milktree

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Be sure to cite MGL Chapter 134, sections 1 and 3 when doing so.

section 1 says, "you have to turn it in"

Section 3 says, "the owner can have it back if they pay for storage"

Both have time limits for the owner.

Where does the law specify the disposition of found stray beasts, money, or goods, after three months or a year?

It seems easy for a PD to simply say, "the law says the owner can have it back, it doesn't say the finder can"

Is this just something from common law that's not explicitly spelled out?

EDIT: found section 4:

Nevermind: Section 4 says "finders keepers"
 

xjma99

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Definitely keep it and use it as a throw down. If it’s a real nice piece, re-barrel it and it’s yours. Discard old barrel, let the magnet fishing guys find it!

Isn’t Howie Carr’s house right next to Wellesley high?? Maybe howie is missing a piece, or was he carrying a throw down and dropped it while walking the pugs??
 

CrackPot

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Can't the ATF just throw a query out to the 4473s they dont discard and save some steps?
The ATF does not have 4473s. 4473s are held by the retail dealer.

When the dealer does a NICS check, all that the ATF gets is "handgun, long gun, other". That is for states where the dealer goes to NICS. Many states do the background checks themselves or do not require them (brady compliant). Buy a gun at a dealer in Texas and you have a Texas CHL, once you fill out the 4473 and pay, you go home with the gun. The dealer does not contact anyone for a background check as your CHL meets brady requirements.

So the post above describing how a trace is done is accurate and the only way to try and trace the gun. Start at manufacturer/importer and move down the chain having each entity check their bound books.
 

Racenet

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So, say you're walking your dog and find a bag with a handgun and ammunition it. Assume you're sufficiently licensed.

Do you...

1) turn it in to the police and forget about it
2) put it in your safe and shoot it
3) try to claim "found property" and insist the police give it back to you after they've determined it wasn't either stolen or used in a crime

Gun? What gun?
 

AHM

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Isn’t Howie Carr’s house right next to Wellesley high?? Maybe howie is missing a piece, or was he carrying a throw down and dropped it while walking the pugs??

Chain duly yanked.

You forgot replace the firing pin, extractor, ejector and breech face.

Based on all the shade-tree feed ramp gunsmithing atrocities I've seen on the Intarwebs,
their imperfections will probably buff right out.
 
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is that field town property or school property.?

if not illegal gun or stolen, likely a parent dropped it watching a game or practice?
It's town property. Police told me that the gun was dropped by someone they had been pursuing some point after midnight, the night before. They said it was a "major incident".

Can anyone go through the scanner logs for Wellesley PD from two nights ago to see what happened?
 
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