Police respond to report of shooting at pro-Israeli protest in Newton

I've always said self help is frowned upon in the commonwealth and this just proves my point, You are also guilty until proven innocent depending how much money you cough up. This dude have anything going on like a go fund me. I feel he needs our help on this one. Our own version of Kyle Rittenhouse.
 
I've always said self help is frowned upon in the commonwealth and this just proves my point, You are also guilty until proven innocent depending how much money you cough up. This dude have anything going on like a go fund me. I feel he needs our help on this one. Our own version of Kyle Rittenhouse.

It sounds like his gofundme is already over a quarter million.
 
I know this is discussed in another thread I think, but what if he was carrying a Byrna Launcher, I think it shoots pepper balls...

There has been a bunch of discussion in this thread about pepper spray, and non-lethal options are a useful choice to have available. But the facts of this situation are challenging. The ponytailed attacker hit the eventual shooter by surprise, and partially from behind, so options were very limited.

But lets consider a hypothetical situation where our protester saw that he was being charged by a Hamas supporter. If he used pepper spray, and then sidestepped the charge, the headlines would be "Violent protesters pepper spray passersby who just want to talk." And the protester almost surely would be arrested for use of a dangerous weapon. Then everyone would be debating about the speed of the charge on video, and since no contact was made, the video would be pretty open to interpretation.

In the end, I do believe it would have been better for everyone if pepper spray was deployed and no contact was made by anyone. But I don't think that would mean that everyone goes home with no controversy.

As an aside, I have not handled a pepperball launcher, only seen them on youtube. But in evaluations on the hard2hurt channel, which I think are pretty good, I have not been impressed. Pepper spray is probably better in most situations.
 
There has been a bunch of discussion in this thread about pepper spray, and non-lethal options are a useful choice to have available. But the facts of this situation are challenging. The ponytailed attacker hit the eventual shooter by surprise, and partially from behind, so options were very limited.

But lets consider a hypothetical situation where our protester saw that he was being charged by a Hamas supporter. If he used pepper spray, and then sidestepped the charge, the headlines would be "Violent protesters pepper spray passersby who just want to talk." And the protester almost surely would be arrested for use of a dangerous weapon. Then everyone would be debating about the speed of the charge on video, and since no contact was made, the video would be pretty open to interpretation.

In the end, I do believe it would have been better for everyone if pepper spray was deployed and no contact was made by anyone. But I don't think that would mean that everyone goes home with no controversy.

As an aside, I have not handled a pepperball launcher, only seen them on youtube. But in evaluations on the hard2hurt channel, which I think are pretty good, I have not been impressed. Pepper spray is probably better in most situations.
The charges for using OC spray would be significantly less than for using deadly force.
 
I can imagine few (very few) scenarios where a pepperball gun would be appropriate/effective, though perhaps the McCloskeys wish they'd made the investment. If nothing else, the long first trigger pull of the Byrna piercing feature would've made up for their abysmal trigger discipline.
As an aside, I have not handled a pepperball launcher, only seen them on youtube. But in evaluations on the hard2hurt channel, which I think are pretty good, I have not been impressed. Pepper spray is probably better in most situations.
If you want to handle a Byrna, there are several Mass stocking dealers, including Eastern Security and New England Airgun.
 
There has been a bunch of discussion in this thread about pepper spray, and non-lethal options are a useful choice to have available. But the facts of this situation are challenging. The ponytailed attacker hit the eventual shooter by surprise, and partially from behind, so options were very limited.

But lets consider a hypothetical situation where our protester saw that he was being charged by a Hamas supporter. If he used pepper spray, and then sidestepped the charge, the headlines would be "Violent protesters pepper spray passersby who just want to talk." And the protester almost surely would be arrested for use of a dangerous weapon. Then everyone would be debating about the speed of the charge on video, and since no contact was made, the video would be pretty open to interpretation.

In the end, I do believe it would have been better for everyone if pepper spray was deployed and no contact was made by anyone. But I don't think that would mean that everyone goes home with no controversy.

As an aside, I have not handled a pepperball launcher, only seen them on youtube. But in evaluations on the hard2hurt channel, which I think are pretty good, I have not been impressed. Pepper spray is probably better in most situations.
A little lesson in OC., OC is an inhalant, basically an aerosol that needs to get inside you through breathing to be affective. On the skin it might cause some people some redness but it would not disable.
What this means is if you spray (or hit them with a pepperball) in the chest, it still has to dissipate and be inhaled. And if the person is running, the cloud it produces will mostly flow past them. Yes it will still get to them, just takes longer to get into them.
So a running man, even at 30', isn't likely to be disabled by OC spray before he makes contact.
By comparison CS is an irritant and contact in the nose, mouth, eyes, and to some extent the skin, will be effective, but even that can take time. It can be a little quicker because the liquid carrier will carry it into the affected areas, whereas the OC carrier needs to evaporate so the OC can be inhaled.

The really fun stuff is the Mace brand OC/CS, its what we were issued back when OC was new, guaranteed to get you one way or the other. But in training, where you got sprayed, they used the regular OC stuff.

Spays are good to break up a fight you are not part of, to force compliance, and to break up mobs. For women it can help stop an aggressor who has not yet switch to physical force, but if they have hands on you or are charging you from a short distance, you waited too long.
 
So what's the intermediate force solution here? Pretend that there aren't two other dudes helping you and you are not able to get the kubotan or baton going. Tazer? How much crap do you gotta carry on you? Knives are out, that's deadly force again.
 
So what's the intermediate force solution here? Pretend that there aren't two other dudes helping you and you are not able to get the kubotan or baton going. Tazer? How much crap do you gotta carry on you? Knives are out, that's deadly force again.
Unless it's police, you do not have to cede your life to bystanders, the question is much better framed as what can you do when you are attacked by a lunatic that goes for your throat, and in such a situation when are you allowed to use force.
 
A person who runs away from problems eventually runs out of places to hide, while the problems still persist.

Then what?

.............................................

As far as that video, that Vet is a pussy. Looks like he couldn't fight his way out of a wet paper bag even with numbers on his side.

He should have defended himself with his fists, not that gun.

Guilty of manslaughter if the Pal dies.
1. You have to pick your battles. IMHO, holding rallies and testifying at the few hearings you're actually allowed to attend won't make a difference.

2. Sometimes you have to let people get what they claim they want---nice and hard. The people of MA want their leftist utopia, so they can have their leftist utopia. Doesn't mean I have to stick around for it.

3. Life is short.
 
Lol.... it's full retard to assume that any normal state would handle this the way MA did.
Yeap. The guy defending himself was charged even before the guy who was clearly assaulting him got any. But nothing to see here, right? [rolleyes]

If you don't see the 2-tiers of justice operating in this country by now, I don't know what to do for you.
 
Yeap. The guy defending himself was charged even before the guy who was clearly assaulting him got any. But nothing to see here, right? [rolleyes]

Don't forget, Newton PD's first charges against the shooter were Assault with a deadly weapon, and depriving an individual of a constitutional right.

So, according to Newton PD, you have a constitutional right to attack people in the street 🤔

Also of note- the constitutional charge was not transferred to the attacker.
 
Don't forget, Newton PD's first charges against the shooter were Assault with a deadly weapon, and depriving an individual of a constitutional right.

So, according to Newton PD, you have a constitutional right to attack people in the street 🤔

Also of note- the constitutional charge was not transferred to the attacker.
Take a look at how the George Floyd rioters were treated versus how the Jan. 6th rioters were treated. The FBI didn't form a task force and spend 10s of millions going after the Floyd rioters.
 
I don't remember the Floyd protesters storming the capital building, but that's a topic for a different thread.
They stormed federal court houses. The burned down cities and killed people. They looted and spread Covid at a time when the authorities were telling you couldn't attend church because it was too risky. They declared autonomous zones free of the US. Remember the warlord of CHAZ?

The Floyd rioters were embraced and encouraged, not charged as they should have been. So if rioting is OK for the left-wing, why can't the right?
 
Scott Hayes, the Framingham man charged with shooting an individual in Newton who darted across a busy street toward him during a pro-Israel rally last week.
Fadel said she learned about Hayes from a Plymouth group that sent out an alert in July showing a picture of him and another man, describing them as having guns, and warning Gaza ceasefire advocates to “be careful.”
She said she called Newton police after talking to members of her organization, the Sawa Newton-Area Peace Alliance, who said they had called a police dispatcher with concerns but were dismissed, “under the guise of free speech.”
 
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SAWA organizer Nathan Foster said he was disappointed in the police response. “The police have a responsibility to make sure that when people are engaging in political speech, they’re not engaging in physical violence or threats of physical violence,” he said.

Ya, like stopping a person from charging across the street and tackling someone.

His posts won't help but none of the BS from the article will be allowed, would love to hear the call where they claim to have called the PD.

That the perp's father keeps saying his son is mentally ill will only help, since Hayes had no way of knowing this, it can only be used as an explanation for his irrational behavior. And irrational behavior is a good reason to defend oneself.
 
Ya, like stopping a person from charging across the street and tackling someone.

His posts won't help but none of the BS from the article will be allowed, would love to hear the call where they claim to have called the PD.

That the perp's father keeps saying his son is mentally ill will only help, since Hayes had no way of knowing this, it can only be used as an explanation for his irrational behavior. And irrational behavior is a good reason to defend oneself.

His social media posts will probably be allowed. Not saying he's right or wrong, but all of this - the posts, the supposed actions at other protests that had people calling the cops on him - is going to presented as him looking for trouble and itching to shoot someone.

Is it true that this guy isn't actually a jew, he just goes to all these protests with an israeli flag wearing some sort of jewish dog tags and pro-jewish clothing?

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