Police Opinion on New Gun Laws

[PaulD]

I was at the rally and made it a point to go around and talk to all the LEO that was there. My point was to request they contact their legislators if they were against these new gun control measures.

I'd say that 85% said outright that they are against it. The rest insinuated they were against it but couldn't offer an opinion because they were on the job. One didn't want to say anything but pulled out his notepad which had his NRA card inside.

We need to get these guys organized.

 

[JRyan]

That's good to hear. Thanks.

 

[DehydratedCorn]

my impression of the boston spec ops is that they are fairly pro 2a, they do not represent the entire department, if anything, they are probably the gun nuts of the bpd and many of them are swat

 

[Force]

Thank you 438!

 

[jefftk]

Much to my dismay our "unions" are typical "lock step with the Democrats" and many times do not reflect the views of the average officer. We are in a sort of tough bind: We are blue collar union workers, what would have been a typical Democratic base, but we are for the most part socially conservative in opinion, typical Republican base. Sort of an identity crisis !

Why is this? How are the union representatives selected?

 

[LoginName]

Imagine my shock when I found this posted in the most recent MCOPA Newsletter...

As the nation faces the reality, many people are calling
for major changes in any type of licensing or possession
of firearms. The worst thing we can do as a society
is to over react. We need to take a step back, let
investigators find out what was really going on and then
evaluate if any change would have helped to prevent
this or future similar events. There are many reasonable
steps that can be made to limit weapons from getting
in the hands of an incompetent person but everyone
has to realize that no matter what law is passed, no one
will ever be able to prevent someone intent on committing
this type of crime. One of the important issues that
I have learned as Chief is that the overwhelming majority
of licensed gun owners are suitable, law abiding, responsible
members of our communities that will never
be involved in any incident in their entire lives. To deny
them their sport on the basis of criminal activity of others
is unfair. Our responsibility is to license to the best
of our ability and we should focus on the denying access
to the criminals in society and not the law abiding
citizens of our community... Executive Director’s Report
Chief A. Wayne Sampson, (Ret.)

And this...

Worst School Massacre in U.S. History: Not a Shooting
by MILTON WOLF, M.D.December 18, 2012

The mainstream media uses the term “school
shootings” because it fits nicely into their narrative that guns
are to blame and therefore law-abiding citizens should be
disarmed. But by limiting their discussion only to shootings,
they ignore the worst school massacre in U.S. history which
wasn’t a shooting at all.
Virginia Tech, 2007: 33 dead.
Newtown, Connecticut, 2012: 28 dead.
University of Texas, 1966: 16 dead.
Columbine, Colorado, 1999: 15 dead.
This is Bath Township, Michigan, 1927: 45 dead
and not a single shooting death.May 18, 1927. Andrew
Kehoe, school board treasurer, unleashed pure evil on the
Bath Township school by detonating dynamite, firebombs
and pyrotol.

Snip..........

Fast forward to our current tragedy, on December
14, 2012 — the same day of the Newtown killings — a world
away, a 36-year-old man walked into a grade school and
stabbed 22 children. In China, guns are banned so attackers
generally use knives and meat cleavers.
Whether in America or in China or anywhere else,
my heart breaks for every one of these kids and their families.
Like most parents, I cannot hear of these tragedies without
my mind’s eye reconstructing the scene in my kids’ school
house. And I’m moved to tears.
In the aftermath of Andrew Kehoe’s 1927 Bath
massacre, investigators found this hand-stenciled sign hanging
on a fence: “CRIMINALS ARE MADE, NOT BORN.” Kehoe
may or may not have been born a criminal — mental illness
is not simple — but I reject his excuse that he was “made” to
be one, as though the methodical and brutal murder of those
44 innocent souls was somehow everybody else’s fault but
his own. Evil does not exist in dynamite or knives or fire or
firearms. Evil exists in hearts
and minds.

http://wolffiles.blogspot.com/2012/12/worst-schoolmassacre-
in-us-history-not.html

And finally, this...

TOP 10 MYTHS ABOUT MASS SHOOTINGS
BY PROFESSOR JAMIE FOX

Even before the death toll in last Friday’s school
massacre in Newtown, Conn., was determined, politicians,
pundits, and professors of varied disciplines were all over
the news, pushing their proposals for change. Some talked
about the role of guns, others about mental-health services,
and still more about the need for better security in schools
and other public places. Whatever their agenda and the
passion behind it, those advocates made certain explicit or
implied assumptions about patterns in mass murder and the
profile of the assailants. Unfortunately, those assumptions
do not always align with the facts.

Myth: Mass shootings are on the rise.
Reality: Over the past three decades, there has been an
average of 20 mass shootings a year in the United States,
each with at least four victims killed by gunfire.
Occasionally, and mostly by sheer coincidence, several
episodes have been clustered closely in time. Overall,
however, there has not been an upward trajectory. To the
contrary, the real growth has been in the style and
pervasiveness of news-media coverage, thanks in large part
to technological advances in reporting.

Myth: Enhanced background checks will keep dangerous
weapons out of the hands of these madmen.
Reality: Most mass murderers do not have criminal records
or a history of psychiatric hospitalization. They would not
be disqualified from purchasing their weapons legally.
Certainly, people cannot be denied their Second Amendment
rights just because they look strange or act in an odd manner.
Besides, mass killers could always find an alternative way
of securing the needed weaponry, even if they had to steal
from family members or friends.

Myth: Restoring the federal ban on assault weapons will
prevent these horrible crimes.
Reality: The overwhelming majority of mass murderers use
firearms that would not be restricted by an assault-weapons
ban. In fact, semiautomatic handguns are far more prevalent
in mass shootings. Of course, limiting the size of ammunition
clips would at least force a gunman to pause to reload or
switch weapons.

(note... while I disagree with next "reality", and the last sentence of the above one, I have to take in consideration
the source where it came from.)

Myth: Expanding “right to carry” provisions will deter mass
killers or at least stop them in their tracks and reduce the
body counts.
Reality: Mass killers are often described by surviving
witnesses as being relaxed and calm during their rampages,
owing to their level of planning. In contrast, the rest of us are
taken by surprise and respond frantically. A sudden and wild
shootout involving the assailant and citizens armed with
concealed weapons would potentially catch countless
innocent victims in the crossfire.

Normally, I would have expected nothing but total disregard and contempt for the second amendment/RKBA coming from the MCOPA.
The fact that they even included any articles that have a positive spin on gun owners rights and the RKBA, comes as a surprise to me.

Who knows... maybe next months newsletter will be more in line with the MCOPA's past and current history with regard to firearms ownership.

 

[JonJ]

Hello all, this is my first post on the forum,.... This is my personal opinion only. Thank you.

Well said, brother. 28 years here and I can't agree with you more.
The recent political BS has dragged me out of the woodwork. My blood pressure is sky high.
Welcome to NES.

 

[Big_Red]

Best first post ever1.

^This

Thank you.

 

[Len-2A Training]

By chance does anyone on here have a way of having some direct contact with the police union?

Each department has their own "police union" which is usually part of the larger org, but focuses strictly on pay/benefits that are local. When I was a Reserve PO I spoke with an officer of the MPA and was told "one group per town" and I would have to join our local group . . . which we were told no way since they use the MPA as their "bargaining unit".

Thank you for posting that.

I think there might be a national organization for law enforcement against gun control. Perhaps you could start or join this in MA.

I'd say do it separate from the union. It would be easier that way.

http://www.leaa.org/ is an org that was started by two officers back ~1990 IIRC. Leroy <don't recall last name> and another officer, one was from CA and the other from NJ. One of which was terminated because of his pro-2A activities! I spoke with one of them back then and was a Charter Member before they changed their structure and I lost track of them. At this point I don't know how big or how active they are, and I don't know how "welcome" they would be by MA legislators if they got involved (the one time I was present at the State House and an NRA Rep spoke, he was derided as a "carpet bagger" telling MA how to do business by the Jt. Comm on Public Safety members).

To the OP, great post, welcome and thanks for your service!

 

[lateapex31]

Do you currently enforce the 1998 gun control laws? Then how will these new laws be any different? They will be enforced just the same.

I do appreciate your post and welcome any LEO who feels the way you do, but at the end of the day you will do your job and enforce unconstitutional crap and arrest citizens for owning a piece of plastic and metal.

438, any response to this? I know everyone is busy patting you on the back and feeling oh so good about LEOs in MA now, but I posed a serious question that was 100% ignored. So, I'll ask again....do you currently enforce the 1998 laws in MA and if so, how is that different from any new law? Finally found your line in the sand or what?

 

[Trenchgunner72]

That post delivered.

I second that. And thank you for your service and fidelity to our Constitution!

 

[Burgermeister]

Thank you, 438. It's great to hear the views of MA law enforcement. Doesn't sound much different from that of TX and OR sheriffs.

 

[Len-2A Training]

438, any response to this? I know everyone is busy patting you on the back and feeling oh so good about LEOs in MA now, but I posed a serious question that was 100% ignored. So, I'll ask again....do you currently enforce the 1998 laws in MA and if so, how is that different from any new law? Finally found your line in the sand or what?

I'm not answering for the OP, but realize that since everything posted on the Internet is there forever, it is unwise to post your life on the Internet. Serious repercussions can occur in answering something like what you are asking. However, reading between the lines might give you the answer that you are looking for. And if you think your posts are anonymous since you use a phony username, nothing could be further from the truth!

 

[jhillnes]

Thank you 438; it's good to hear an opinion from someone in law enforcement.

 

[ochmude]

438, any response to this? I know everyone is busy patting you on the back and feeling oh so good about LEOs in MA now, but I posed a serious question that was 100% ignored. So, I'll ask again....do you currently enforce the 1998 laws in MA and if so, how is that different from any new law? Finally found your line in the sand or what?

If you were empaneled on a jury in a case where someone was being tried for violation of those 1998 gun laws, would you announce to the prosecution, judge, fellow jurors, and everyone else in the courtroom that you intended to exercise your right to jury nullification, likely resulting in being dismissed as a juror and ruining your opportunity of actually making a difference? Or would you keep quiet so that you can do what needs to be done? I respect the serious question that you asked and it is quite valid. I ask that you take this question just as seriously and would greatly appreciate that it not be ignored.

 

[PaulD]

438, any response to this? I know everyone is busy patting you on the back and feeling oh so good about LEOs in MA now, but I posed a serious question that was 100% ignored. So, I'll ask again....do you currently enforce the 1998 laws in MA and if so, how is that different from any new law? Finally found your line in the sand or what?

See what Len said.

This is like asking anyone else in MA if they have a 30 round PMAG in the safe.

 

[WPDC13]

https://www.facebook.com/groups/221286168008487/

I started this group after speaking with Mike from GOAL. I started it at 2:00pm and we are already at 150+. Hopefully with GOAL helping, we can get something going. I also have a few reps on board so maybe this will be a good start to get the message out.

 

[Bjoyce]

I would probably think that most cops would really not know the exact specs of what is or isn't pre ban or post ban or maybe they are worried about far more things then checking too see who's got what in their possession for round capacity or are carrying unless you do something stupid to draw their attention. I also agree with lenS

 

[PaulD]

https://www.facebook.com/groups/221286168008487/

I started this group after speaking with Mike from GOAL. I started it at 2:00pm and we are already at 150+. Hopefully with GOAL helping, we can get something going. I also have a few reps on board so maybe this will be a good start to get the message out.

Excellent! Thank you.

 

[chuckster]

https://www.facebook.com/groups/221286168008487/

I started this group after speaking with Mike from GOAL. I started it at 2:00pm and we are already at 150+. Hopefully with GOAL helping, we can get something going. I also have a few reps on board so maybe this will be a good start to get the message out.

Do you have to be LEO to join?

 

[WPDC13]

Yes, the goal is to get as many LEO's in one group as we can. I realize this may seem like just another us vs. them, but trust me its not. People on here even said that one of us calling a rep is equal to 10,000 of you, so what if 500 of us do it. We really want to send a message to Boston that this will not be tolerated.

 

[Lank]

Great post, and thank you!

 

[Individualist]

Aren't journalists supposed to be protected against having to divulge their source when requested by the source? LEO's who want to speak out might contact the media and ask that question?

 

[wahsben]

Please Please PLEASE go public with this! Your opinion DOES matter, and carries more weight than ours alone. Your voice is equivalent to ten thousand of us "regular folk." I hope this gets posted on mainstream news outlets everywhere! Thank you for your thoughtful consideration.

This!

 

[wahsben]

Hello all, this is my first post on the forum, although I have been reading it for the past several years. With the recent events happening I felt compelled to give an opinion. I am a career police officer in a mid sized community in the greater Boston area, and have been so for 26 years. I belive my experience gives me some insight into crime and criminal behavior. I am also a gun owner, avid target shooter, trap shooter, and hunter (bow and gun). I lawfully own several of the guns the Commonwealth has deemed "evil".
In recent days I have had numerous conversations with literally dozens of fellow police officers from all over the state, and we all agree on one thing: None of the proposed legislation recently filed will have any effect on crime or criminals. It will only punish and hinder lawful gun owners. Anyone who believes otherwise is detached from reality. I would like to convey to the others on this forum that most police officers are not in favor of burdensome regulations that serve no purpose other than to criminalize otherwise lawful citizens. Really, most street officers and line supervisors get it: the lawful gun owner is not the enemy. I am not concerned that someone who goes through the Commonwealth's licensing process is going to use their gun to commit a crime. It just doesnt happen that way. People who commit crimes with guns do not worry about licenses, magazine capacity, pre ban, post ban whatever. They don't care. That's why they are criminals. We realize that the lawful gun owner is our friend, family member, neighbor etc. They are members of the community we serve, and they should not be demonized for excercising a Constitutional right.
I would echo what others have posted and urge you to call your elected officials and voice your opinion on these recent legistlative proposals which will be disasterous to all lawful gun owners. This is my personal opinion only. Thank you.

Welcome to NES! Thank you for sharing your thoughts.

 

[Rockrivr1]

First off, thanks for the great write up and insight to what you guys thing. I have a couple question if you don't mind. They are:

1. What do you think about the Sheriffs in upper NY state that came out and indicated they will not uphold the gun ban laws that were ramrodded through?

2. What's you opinion of what would happen in the LE ranks if the order to go door to door to confiscate guns or arrest gun owners came down?

 

[Dr. CCW]

Thank you. We need you all on our side, so when the next directive comes down to go door to door and confiscate and arrest, you will ignore orders and band together to arrest the traitors stealing our tax dollars and trampling on our rights.

 

[438]

438, any response to this? I know everyone is busy patting you on the back and feeling oh so good about LEOs in MA now, but I posed a serious question that was 100% ignored. So, I'll ask again....do you currently enforce the 1998 laws in MA and if so, how is that different from any new law? Finally found your line in the sand or what?

Ok I am going to try to answer this as best I can without appearing that I am swerving the issue. I am certainly not going to publicly comment on the internet about some things. I am walking a thin line as it is between my personal beliefs and that of my agency. I took an oath when I was hired, to uphold the Constitution of the United States, the Massachusetts Constitution, state and local laws. I take that oath seriously. There are laws that many of us don't always agree with. I do not have the luxury of picking and choosing what laws I like and do not like. If every police officer simply enforced or obeyed laws he or she liked we would have anarchy. What if an officer sincerely believed it was ok to sell heroin to kids at the high school ? He could choose not to enforce drug laws. What if an officer believed it was ok to beat your wife or children ? Well I suppose we could give him a pass enforcing domestic violence calls. It is a slippery slope. I understand your frustration but the issue is far more complex than the police choosing what laws they will enforce. A better approach is to have good laws made by the Legislature in the first place. This can be done hopefully by giving our opinions to our elected officials. The spirit of my original post is that the police are not the enemy of lawful gun owners and many of us are happy to work within the system and the law to make sure that everyone's rights are protected. I don't know if that helps answer your question or not.

 

[tdubbs]

Yes, the goal is to get as many LEO's in one group as we can. I realize this may seem like just another us vs. them, but trust me its not. People on here even said that one of us calling a rep is equal to 10,000 of you, so what if 500 of us do it. We really want to send a message to Boston that this will not be tolerated.

I've been sending the facebook link to several LEO friends in Western MA. Hope to help you with this!

 

[AntiHippie]

First off, thanks for the great write up and insight to what you guys thing. I have a couple question if you don't mind. They are:

1. What do you think about the Sheriffs in upper NY state that came out and indicated they will not uphold the gun ban laws that were ramrodded through?

2. What's you opinion of what would happen in the LE ranks if the order to go door to door to confiscate guns or arrest gun owners came down?

Anyone "in the LE ranks" would be wise not to answer that question for all the world to read.