Police Militarization

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I know there are many articles about this, but saw this one and thought some of you would like to see it. This is beyond out of control and all in the name of safety.
Overarmed

And on top of all of that, why cammo?
This crap encourages the wrong element to apply to be cops, so it's only going to get worse.
 

Dennis in MA

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Ya know. I was watching The Sopranos on Amazon. Season 3, episode 1 or 2. Tony is watching The Public Enemy with James Cagney. 1930-something or 40-something.

The police, chasing Cagney, had an armored vehicle that looked oddly like today's armored vehicles.




Just makes you think.
 

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So AR-15's are not dangerous and scary killing machines so we should have them, but they are dangerous and scary killing machines if the police have them? Saying the police shouldn't have rifles isn't helping our cause.

I also don't get what the big deal about police having body armor, or vehicle armor is ? The bearcats they have are just armored vehicles, they dont have cannons on top. Armor does not kill people. BDU pants also do not kill people.

I get that these things may change their attitude, but if that happens then it should be dealt with.
 

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So AR-15's are not dangerous and scary killing machines so we should have them, but they are dangerous and scary killing machines if the police have them? Saying the police shouldn't have rifles isn't helping our cause.

I also don't get what the big deal about police having body armor, or vehicle armor is ? The bearcats they have are just armored vehicles, they dont have cannons on top. Armor does not kill people. BDU pants also do not kill people.

I get that these things may change their attitude, but if that happens then it should be dealt with.
Too late.

There's a reason that the army is prohibited from operating in the US.... Problem is an army is a group of guys with a uniform, and a certain level of weaponry. If the cops are armed and armored to more-or-less the same level as soldiers patrolling some place where loose, flowing robes are the normal dress, and it's really hot....what is the difference? "Keeping the peace" and "Peacekeeping" is not a minor difference.
 
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PD7

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I just find a lot of hypocrisy in some of the militarization arguments. Everyone is up in arms over some fruit in CA wanting to ban body armor because it's benign and just 2 metal plates, but yet it's militarization if a police offer wears those 2 "just metal plates".

If some nut in CA wanted to ban BDU's from civilian purchase because they were too intimidating and "military style" assault pants people would go nuts. But if a police officer wears them they are suddenly super ninja assassin police somehow. It's a pair of pants.

Some of the police militarization points are 100% valid, but the "it looks military so it's scary" BS is just the same as saying "evil" rifles look scary so we should ban them.
 

Executive

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I just find a lot of hypocrisy in some of the militarization arguments. Everyone is up in arms over some fruit in CA wanting to ban body armor because it's benign and just 2 metal plates, but yet it's militarization if a police offer wears those 2 "just metal plates".

If some nut in CA wanted to ban BDU's from civilian purchase because they were too intimidating and "military style" assault pants people would go nuts. But if a police officer wears them they are suddenly super ninja assassin police somehow. It's a pair of pants.

Some of the police militarization points are 100% valid, but the "it looks military so it's scary" BS is just the same as saying "evil" rifles look scary so we should ban them.
BDU's and other military clothing and equipment has a purpose: combat. Our military equips its people to do their job as combat soldiers, a far different function than that of local law enforcement so the uniform should be different. If the police are dressing and equipping to the same level as combat soldiers, but do not plan to engage in combat, WHY? If they are planning to engage in combat, WHY?

Think about it.


Chris
 

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BDU's and other military clothing and equipment has a purpose: combat. Our military equips its people to do their job as combat soldiers, a far different function than that of local law enforcement so the uniform should be different. If the police are dressing and equipping to the same level as combat soldiers, but do not plan to engage in combat, WHY? If they are planning to engage in combat, WHY?

Think about it.


Chris
So how many pockets make pants "combat" pants. How many pockets are police pants allowed to have before they are "military style pants"?

Should they not be allowed to use "tactical" belts too because they might be used in combat?
 
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Nobody said anything about not having rifles, though arming all the cops with them only escalates the situation since rather than having a pistol in a holster they carry them as if they are ready to shoot people. More absurd is dressing like the military and using armored personnel carriers since it has nothing to with maintaining peace by enforcing the laws and has everything to do with maintaining order by instilling fear of bodily harm into the public. The police are responsible for bringing suspected criminals before the courts, not dispensing justice. The police are citizens, not prison guards.

- - - Updated - - -

So how many pockets make pants "combat" pants. How many pockets are police pants allowed to have before they are "military style pants"?
More the khakis. Image matters.
 

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And on top of all of that, why cammo?
This crap encourages the wrong element to apply to be cops, so it's only going to get worse.
Ya know those guys kickin down doors in IRQ and AFG ?

A lot of them are cops now.

The transition from soldier to cop is a really easy one,with less ROE to boot when facing perceived threats.
 

the_shootist

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So how many pockets make pants "combat" pants. How many pockets are police pants allowed to have before they are "military style pants"?

Should they not be allowed to use "tactical" belts too because they might be used in combat?
I agree with much that you're saying. Having said that I believe the people should have the same rights as police officers....by that I mean body armor for all, AR15 and any other 'evil' weapon, capable of firing full auto for all. This levels the playing field and doesn't seem hypocritical to me. Of course, the powers that be would have a big problem with that....they like to have the clear advantage over civilians in those matters. Therein lies the problem
 
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curious to see how this escalates (militarization, not forum arguing). Some lone gunman picks away at the police with a scoped rifle, do the police shoot blindly into a crowd? We'll probably see something like this in our lifetimes.
[popcorn]
Boston Massacre 2.0
 

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I agree that camo is dumb. But in reality it just looks more "Killy" than another color. It's a cosmetic feature. Just like the "assault weapons" ban talks about cosmetic features.

- - - Updated - - -

I agree with much that you're saying. Having said that I believe the people should have the same rights as police officers....by that I mean body armor for all, AR15 and any other 'evil' weapon, capable of firing full auto for all. This levels the playing field and doesn't seem hypocritical to me. Of course, the powers that be would have a big problem with that....they like to have the clear advantage over civilians in those matters. Therein lies the problem
I agree 100% with what you said.
 
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richc

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Have you read about the Stanford Prison Experiment? Fascinating look at what happens when ordinary folks are put in positions of power, even just perceived power:

"According to Zimbardo and his colleagues, the Stanford Prison Experiment demonstrates the powerful role that the situation can play in human behavior. Because the guards were placed in a position of power, they began to behave in ways they would not normally act in their everyday lives or in other situations. The prisoners, placed in a situation where they had no real control, became passive and depressed. "

http://psychology.about.com/od/classicpsychologystudies/a/stanford-prison-experiment.htm

I would argue the same is happening to our police in many instances.
 

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Have you read about the Stanford Prison Experiment? Fascinating look at what happens when ordinary folks are put in positions of power, even just perceived power:

"According to Zimbardo and his colleagues, the Stanford Prison Experiment demonstrates the powerful role that the situation can play in human behavior. Because the guards were placed in a position of power, they began to behave in ways they would not normally act in their everyday lives or in other situations. The prisoners, placed in a situation where they had no real control, became passive and depressed. "

http://psychology.about.com/od/classicpsychologystudies/a/stanford-prison-experiment.htm

I would argue the same is happening to our police in many instances.
The police have always been in a position of power that could be abused. I just don't see how having an officer wear body armor in an outer carrier gives them more power to abuse. People just think it looks "scary".
 

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Ya know those guys kickin down doors in IRQ and AFG ?

A lot of them are cops now.

The transition from soldier to cop is a really easy one,with less ROE to boot when facing perceived threats.
+1000000000
 
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This is what the supporters of big government get.

Moar JBT's.

Thanks again libtards, you are so stupid you don't even know what side you are on.
 

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Ride along with some not militarized cops not doing a militarized raid!!! complete with laughing and a small child held at gunpoint !!!! It's like Iraq,only funner because there is no threat!!!!!

Someone used this old ladies open WiFi connection to make threats against the police...These guys brought along a news station to capture the event and to show the public what happens when you make a threat against the kings men.

 
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Ride along with some not militarized cops not doing a militarized raid!!! complete with laughing and a small child held at gunpoint !!!! It's like Iraq,only funner because there is no threat!!!!!

Someone used this old ladies open WiFi connection to make threats against the police...These guys brought along a news station to capture the event and to show the public what happens when you make a threat against the kings men.

I have a problem with the rising use of no knock raids in non dangerous situations. But I don't have a problem with what they are wearing or their equipment.

If that was a child kidnappers house or something I have no problem with the police showing up like that.

Abusing the use of no knock raids scares me. Their helmets, vest carriers, and pants don't.
 
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Ride along with some not militarized cops not doing a militarized raid!!! complete with laughing and a small child held at gunpoint !!!! It's like Iraq,only funner because there is no threat!!!!!

Someone used this old ladies open WiFi connection to make threats against the police...These guys brought along a news station to capture the event and to show the public what happens when you make a threat against the kings men.
DON'T SWAT ME BRO

 
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I have a problem with the rising use of no knock raids in non dangerous situations. But I don't have a problem with what they are wearing or their equipment.

If that was a child kidnappers house or something I have no problem with the police showing up like that.

Abusing the use of no knock raids scares me. Their helmets, vest carriers, and pants don't.
You can't separate the two.

[video=youtube_share;ZhiyeobdsFw]http://youtu.be/ZhiyeobdsFw[/video]
 

BigTimber

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The police have always been in a position of power that could be abused. I just don't see how having an officer wear body armor in an outer carrier gives them more power to abuse. People just think it looks "scary".
Would you please stop using logic and reason when talking about the police. This is NES were mindless police hating keeps members warm and fuzzy at night. Your upsetting the balance of the universe. Someone please post a shady video were we only see half the story and a upset cop we can all hate on. Geez, What's this place coming too?[wink]
 

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You can't separate the two.
Why not?

If there is a Mumbai style attack somewhere in the U.S. I want the cops showing up kitted up to the max.

The argument seems to be that departments are using SWAT teams too often. I agree with that.

Regular patrol cops aren't running around with helmets and full auto rifles.

Do I want SWAT teams available and having the right equipment when it's required? Absolutely.
 

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The police have always been in a position of power that could be abused. I just don't see how having an officer wear body armor in an outer carrier gives them more power to abuse. People just think it looks "scary".
No, it also changes the attitude of the wearer.

Why does the police uniform exist? As a "badge of office", as is the badge, and sidearm. Many old-time cops were quite proud at ever have had to clear leather during their careers. Protect and serve.

Now, you have an up-armored land warrior, not a public servant. There's a reason why the scary clothes and equipment is in use.
 

Prepper

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Ride along with some not militarized cops not doing a militarized raid!!! complete with laughing and a small child held at gunpoint !!!! It's like Iraq,only funner because there is no threat!!!!!

Someone used this old ladies open WiFi connection to make threats against the police...These guys brought along a news station to capture the event and to show the public what happens when you make a threat against the kings men.

Well the police went home safe.

I find it interesting they just merrily roll right up there in their vehicle and smash right on in. No covert observation from a distance to see what they might (or might not) be dealing with. No listening in with directional microphones or tapping their line. Not even any knocking on the door first pretending to be a JW or anything.
 
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PD7

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No, it also changes the attitude of the wearer.

Why does the police uniform exist? As a "badge of office", as is the badge, and sidearm. Many old-time cops were quite proud at ever have had to clear leather during their careers. Protect and serve.

Now, you have an up-armored land warrior, not a public servant. There's a reason why the scary clothes and equipment is in use.
I hate to break it to you, but "old timer cops" got away with a hell of a lot more abuse than cops today.

Do you think policing is the same today as it was in the 50's and 60's? How about in the 20's? When police actually had machine guns.

image.jpg
 
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Greg

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Would you please stop using logic and reason when talking about the police. This is NES were mindless police hating keeps members warm and fuzzy at night. Your upsetting the balance of the universe. Someone please post a shady video were we only see half the story and a upset cop we can all hate on. Geez, What's this place coming too?[wink]
Can you point out the logic and reason in the video I posted since you seem to be the sarcastic cheerleader here ?
 
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BDU's and other military clothing and equipment has a purpose: combat. Our military equips its people to do their job as combat soldiers, a far different function than that of local law enforcement so the uniform should be different. If the police are dressing and equipping to the same level as combat soldiers, but do not plan to engage in combat, WHY? If they are planning to engage in combat, WHY?

Think about it.


Chris
My old uniforms were typical 'police' uniforms. They sucked. Period. No ball room, then you suddenly had plenty when the seam ripped. If barbed wire even looked at it you had a tear. Start to sweat, your uniform is stuck to you for the rest of the day.

The police uniforms you are referring to need to be updated to something besides easy to rip polyester. To date, the only people making such a uniform are using the same ripstop material used in whatever they are calling BDU's today. The cargo pockets come in handy, not so much for candy bars (they melt too quick), but gloves and small flashlights fit nicely in the BDU pockets.

Does it need to look 'military'? No, but that's all they are making, maybe by demand, maybe lazy producers of uniforms, I don't know. Velcro sucks though, my name plates get all shriveled and look like crap.

edit: Most agencies are fairly cash strapped, so buying the cheapest uniforms available makes sense. Even more so if the individual officer has to pay for it out of pocket.
 

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Well the police went home safe.

I find it interesting they just merrily roll right up there in their vehicle and smash right on in. No covert observation from a distance to see what they might (or might not) be dealing with. No listening in with directional microphones or tapping their line. Not even any knocking on the door first pretending to be a JW or anything.
Oh, they could also try calling back the number on the alleged 911 call. If a confused old lady answers, something probably isn't as originally reported. Yes, it could be no one is there and won't answer which doesn't necessarily mean nothing's wrong. Sigh. I have to think of everything.
 
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Stupid argument is stupid.

Yes the police are over militarized , treating us ( little people ) as if we're ther enemy , and do not GAF if we don't like it.

I submit to you the martial law they didn't even bother to declare while hunting for one teenager in The Battle of Boston Strong.

End of ****ing argument for me.
 

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Stupid argument is stupid.

Yes the police are over militarized , treating us ( little people ) as if we're ther enemy , and do not GAF if we don't like it.

I submit to you the martial law they didn't even bother to declare while hunting for one teenager in The Battle of Boston Strong.

End of ****ing argument for me.
I'm just curious, and I'm not condoning the "martial law" that day. But what if those two little morons weren't morons? What if they had some terrorist combat training and some good firearms?

You want Joe Schmo write you a parking ticket cop showing up for that?

And yes, in a perfect world all the residents of Watertown would have been on their front porch with an AR waiting for one of those little aholes. But it's MA.
 
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