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Police firearm law knowledge
- Thread starter Martlet
- Start date
D
Deleted member 22390
some do some dont, I do because I am a firearm enthusiast
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some do some dont, I do because I am a firearm enthusiast
- - - Updated - - -
some do some dont, I do because I am a firearm enthusiast
Yes the laws are very confusing and yes there are some, well many, police officers and troopers who don't know if they carry a glock or a Sig or what caliber. I work with them and this is how it is. They should know their equipment but they are not gun guys and girls. They probably know more about their pepper spray and taser because they use them more often, no excuse, but there it is. Before you jump all over them for not knowing every gun law just remember they also have many other laws they have to know and no one could possible retain everything. This is why there are guys on the truck team, EOD, DRE, special traffic teams, FST, OAT... The average patrol officer likely knows the workings of the BT machine and how far away from the wall it has to be because he encounters challenges to it in Court on a regular basis more than he would on the proper storage of a firearm, (did you know in MA a firearm is a pistol/revolver/handgun, not a rifle or shotgun!) I'm an instructor and gun guy and I've been confused since the 97/98 gun law changes. Did you know MA spends less money on training per officer then almost every other State. NH spends much more on training it's police then MA.
xtry51
NES Member
I asked a CT trooper "Is that a Sig you're carrying?" just to strike up a conversation in a store once.
His reply "I don't know, it's whatever they issue."
This did not breed confidence.
His reply "I don't know, it's whatever they issue."
This did not breed confidence.
He probably just didn't want to get into a conversation with you about guns (or maybe anything else).
xtry51
NES Member
You could tell by the look on his face and body language that wasn't the situation.
D
Deleted member 12999
I love talking guns with people. It depends how they ask, and if they are Costanza close -talkers though. 
Atilla meat gazes me
Atilla meat gazes me
No, no, and no.
I work with cars. Cars change frequently. In fact, you can have two vehicles that are the same model and they can have very different service demands. There is rarely any formal training. You need to stay on top of changes. If I can't work on something then I simply don't work on it. If I do it incorrectly the consumer could go elsewhere or I could lose my job. If I told my boss it's difficult and hard to keep up with I have a pretty good idea of what his response would be and it wouldn't be pretty. Most importantly, if it isn't broke; don't fix it.
In an officer's business that could mean someone's basic human rights. It's even more important to keep up on the information. If informal training isn't available it's important to do the research yourself. Take personal accountability. I think it's said to the citizen that not knowing the law is not an excuse. Then the same should apply to those that enforce it, correct? Resources should be provided or demanded. If you don't have the information then differ it to someone who does. Lastly, don't treat innocent people like guilty criminals.
I'm pretty sure that if an officer walked past my car and my loaded gun was just laying on the seat and I told him it was mine that my excuse was, "I'm sorry officer, I didn't know that was illegal <insert reason why here>" would not be an option. He would quickly say, tough. It's my responsibility to know these laws and I don't even do their job.
Well, to respond to your post. Tough. It's your job. Don't like it? Go find another job.
Did that sentence really happen? Wow
As a stamp collector I have to say that I have had a few run in's with Le's who claim ( as many do ) to know everything. I am what many call a hard ass and I do not bow to the badge.
As a stamp collector I have to say that I have had a few run in's with Le's who claim ( as many do ) to know everything. I am what many call a hard ass and I do not bow to the badge.
D
Deleted member 12999
In a fight? He hasn't been licked yet.
Eta: if he collects Tax Stamps, he is in fact, a certified bad ass.
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Jasons 269/10 and 121 laws refer to specific firearm laws that reference firearms and they mean handgun not shotguns or rifles. An example would be leaving a FIREARM unattended in a vehicle. If you read the complete section you cited you will see that it also includes sawed off shotguns and illegal length rifles, which are classified as handguns;
“Firearm”, a pistol, revolver or other weapon of any description, loaded or unloaded, from which a shot or bullet can be discharged and of which the length of the barrel or barrels is less than 16 inches or 18 inches in the case of a shotgun as originally manufactured; provided, however, that the term firearm shall not include any weapon that is: (i) constructed in a shape that does not resemble a handgun, short-barreled rifle or short-barreled shotgun including, but not limited to, covert weapons that resemble key-chains, pens, cigarette-lighters or cigarette-packages; or (ii) not detectable as a weapon or potential weapon by x-ray machines commonly used at airports or walk- through metal detectors.
“Firearm”, a pistol, revolver or other weapon of any description, loaded or unloaded, from which a shot or bullet can be discharged and of which the length of the barrel or barrels is less than 16 inches or 18 inches in the case of a shotgun as originally manufactured; provided, however, that the term firearm shall not include any weapon that is: (i) constructed in a shape that does not resemble a handgun, short-barreled rifle or short-barreled shotgun including, but not limited to, covert weapons that resemble key-chains, pens, cigarette-lighters or cigarette-packages; or (ii) not detectable as a weapon or potential weapon by x-ray machines commonly used at airports or walk- through metal detectors.
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Vipprimo. Good for you but your walking down the street one day and your neighbor ask you if a Walbro 255LPH fuel pump will fit into his Nissan 350Z twin turbo you may not know the answer off the top of your head. Maybe you'll have to look it up because you don't deal with Nissan 350Z twin turbo fuel pumps very often. Get what I mean?
Big Daddy 45acp
Instructor
Before my wife retired, the other cops would ask her and if she didn't know, she would ask me. In a nutshell, no.
being a cop is just like most jobs u cant know it all a responsible gun owner should know laws before loading a car with guns or just use basic gun safty best practices unloaded,safty locked and in a case of bag with a lock, a carry gun is diffent story
Very Fast and Furious of you. I like it though. Especially since I could answer that without any thought.
Instead let me approach it like this. Imagine you go to a Nissan aftermarket place that specializes in Walbro pumps and the mechanic looks at you and says, "what's that? I've never heard of a 225 before. Fuel tanks take gallons, not liters." Would you still be inclined to work with them? What if they couldn't patch a tire correctly? That is what we're concerned with here.
You have to understand that these officers don't know what weapon is in their holster or what it shoots. That's not the problem though. Honestly, I don't care if they know that. If you pull the trigger and it goes bang I think you got that handled. Also, this is not about bashing officers. I understand they aren't trained correctly. That goes without saying. What I am saying is give these guys the training and the resources to understand the basics so that people can't question them. They don't need to prosecute them in court, but they do need to know that we have certain rights and if I was an officer then I would make sure that the public knew that I knew my stuff! Be exemplary. I say that because you have our rights in your hands.
Our whole entire government is this way. Nobody talks to each other, little or no training, just send them out with our fundamental rights in tow packing a gun... Think about that insanity for a minute. Then you tell me they have so little training that the civilians know more and then I ask myself why I keep hearing Feinstein say that they have the guns because they've been properly trained to use them yet I can't be held accountable. How did that happen?
Also please forgive me because I'm probably ranting a little. I have great respect for officers and I'm tired of them looking like schmucks because nobody set expectations for them. When I get pulled over and the guy says I'm doing something illegal and I know it's not and then I realize he's pulled over other people for the same reason I get flustered. I've been in front of a magistrate who yelled at someone and apologized to me and I don't feel some grand victory because I "won". I feel like the system got cheated. He didn't realize he was doing something wrong and a day of my work was wasted which goes against the relationship building between the public that they strive so hard to achieve.
vipprimo I had to search for that one, can't believe you knew. You're right about Officers should know the laws and they can make a huge impact on someone's life, (I witnessed someone charged and convicted of leaving a shotgun in a mv when the statue clearly states Firearm, (pre 1997.) I have seen guys I work with make the wrong call and I had to stop they before the person was handcuffed. I'm not making excuses for lack of knowledge but there are way too many laws in MA and many are not common sense. Think of it like this, a Harvard MA Police Officer he probably knows how far away from houses and the road a pheasant hunter has to be before he can discharge a shotgun (or firearm, HA got you jasons!) Now take a Dorchester Officer walking the beat he has no idea how far a pheasant hunter has to be from the road or a house but he can probably tell you the the gram weight difference between possession of class A with intent and trafficking class A, which the Harvard Officer would probably not know and he'd have to look it up. Another example could be a Worcester Officer stops a vehicle and the guy has short lobsters in a bucket on the back seat. The Worcester Officer probably has no idea there is a violation but a Salisbury or Gloucester Officer would recognize the violation in a heartbeat. If your a truck driver and get pulled over by a local patrol officer, no sweat. But you get pulled over by SP Truck team and your sweating bullets wondering if your log is in order and the trailer weight is ok. There are a ton of laws in the Commonwealth, (destruction of property has dozens of similar and contradicting laws,) if the Officer isn't a gun guy or someone who deals with firearm violations on a regular basis then you may know more about it then he does. You have a valid point and the laws need to be stream lined and in some instances, the Officers needs to be better trained.
Read it again. Firearm is a handgun/pisol/revolver, or a shotgun with a barel length of less than 18 inches and a rifle with a barrel length of less than 16 inches, both of which are illegal without NFA compliance and State licensing requirment. So for the purposes of any M.G.L. that makes reference to a firearm it has to be a handgun or sawed off shotgun or rifle with an illegal barrel length. There are other statues that specifically address shotguns, rifles and high capacity. It's an element of the crime. Just like operation on a public way is an element of OUI-L.
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OK, I see what you're getting at now. It's true that the definition of "shotgun" and "rifle" as defined the MGLs is distinct from that of a "firearm." Your original statement, while technically correct, was misleading because SBS and SBR are covered. (Granted an SBS or an SBR is not technically a shotgun or a rifle according to the MGLs....)
You do bring up an interesting point though. Technically a Firearm Identification Card doesn't allow the holder to own or possess any "firearms" (as they are incorrectly defined in 121.) It is a bit of a mind ****....
MisterHappy
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This is exactly the point that I bring up in BP classes to illustrate the foncused-ness of MGLs. I hold up my FID, and have someone read it - then, I explain the nuance. Just to let them know that you need to know your sh!t to stay righteous.
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And you park on a driveway but drive on a parkway.
