Police chiefs have discretion to issue gun licenses

[LoginName]

Some things never change...

WATERTOWN

Police chiefs in Massachusetts are allowed to use their judgment when deciding to issue a gun license, and it’s that suitability standard in the law that some have criticized.

“The biggest concern I have about the suitability standard is the lack of guidance the applicant can understand,” said Jason Guida.

Guida, the former director of the Massachusetts Firearms Records Bureau who has also served as counsel to the Firearms Licensing Review Board, isn’t the only Massachusetts attorney who has a problem with the suitability standard in Massachusetts law.

Beyond legal disqualifiers such as drug, domestic violence and weapons convictions, Massachusetts police chiefs are legally authorized to use their discretion when deciding whether or not to issue a gun license.

“Nine out of 10 police chiefs are reasonable,” said Edward George, counsel to the Gun Owners’ Action League of Massachusetts (GOAL), the state affiliate of the National Rifle Association and a practicing attorney for more than 40 years. “However, some chiefs are out of control. They lack common sense (when making decisions about who gets a license).

According to Watertown Police Chief Michael Lawn, there were 749 active License to Carry (LTC) licenses in Watertown in 2015, mostly Class A (large-capacity). Only three of those were listed as Class B (non-large-capacity) licenses. Of the 749 LTC active licenses last year, Watertown Police issued 62 LTC new licenses. In January of this year, Lawn said, police issued 30 new LTC licenses.

In Watertown, Lawn said, applicants must set up an appointment with WPD Detetive Jennifer O'Connor. A few things that will get your application immediately rejected are a history of violent crime, a felony conviction or misdemeanor, a weapons or drug offense, time spent in a mental hosptial or past treatment for alchohol or drugs and, a protective order.

Complete article @ http://watertown.wickedlocal.com/article/20160317/NEWS/160316291/?Start=1

 

[jhblaze1]

yeah only watertown cops should have guns. they have so much discipline and have proven themselves to be remarkable shots.

 

[Garden12]

Wayne Sampson, executive director of the Massachusetts Chiefs of Police Association, said the law gives licensing authority to individual communities because “chiefs, especially in smaller communities, have better knowledge of the individual applicants,” adding that a local police department has records beyond criminal convictions that could call into question the suitability of a candidate for a gun license.

Such B.S. and a terrible arugument.

There is a bill pending at the Massachusetts State House, sponsored by Rep. Jim Miceli, D-Wilmington, to remove local ordinances on gun licensing decisions. Supporters said the bill will remove confusion and make the job of deciding who gets a gun license easier on law enforcement.

Anybody know if this has any chance of passing?

 

[M1911]

Such B.S. and a terrible arugument. Anybody know if this has any chance of passing?

My guess? Unlikely to come to a vote.

 

[Serapis]

http://m.braintree.wickedlocal.com/article/20160316/NEWS/160316563

Funny this was in the Braintree Forum


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[modernhamlet]

http://m.braintree.wickedlocal.com/article/20160316/NEWS/160316563

Funny this was in the Braintree Forum

All of the local news outlets are jointly doing a 2 article series on guns, with a local point of view. This week is article 1, which as you can see focuses on the current law and how guns are regulated today. Next week will be more about what locals residents think about these laws and the gun debate generally. That's the one that will make folks here go truly nuts...

 

[DispositionMatrix]

Dupe.
http://www.northeastshooters.com/vb...ot-special-report-quot-on-gun-licensing-in-MA

 

[modernhamlet]

Dupe.
http://www.northeastshooters.com/vb...ot-special-report-quot-on-gun-licensing-in-MA

Technically different articles. But agree, any of these wickedlocal threads should be merged.

 

[Mike S]

Wicked Local is running a bunch of stories on gun ownership from all over the state today. Apparently they have found that gun stories = web traffic.

 

[LoginName]

All of the local news outlets are jointly doing a 2 article series on guns, with a local point of view. This week is article 1, which as you can see focuses on the current law and how guns are regulated today. Next week will be more about what locals residents think about these laws and the gun debate generally. That's the one that will make folks here go truly nuts...

Technically different articles. But agree, any of these wickedlocal threads should be merged.

Wicked Local is running a bunch of stories on gun ownership from all over the state today. Apparently they have found that gun stories = web traffic.

Looks like they've gone full retard with this.

In addition to the local articles regarding discretionary licensing and how individual chiefs handle it, there are quite a few other "SPECIAL REPORTS" (some are actually positive) regarding state law and the gun control issue.

This is just a sampling from 15 minutes of searching around...

SPECIAL REPORT: GUN OWNERSHIP: Where do guns used in crimes come from?

SPECIAL REPORT: GUN OWNERSHIP: State tracks sales, not owners

SPECIAL REPORT: Some Holbrook families are at home on the range

SPECIAL REPORT: GUNS IN OUR COMMUNITY -- Boxborough dealer talks purchase process

SPECIAL REPORT GUNS IN OUR COMMUNITY: Lexingtonians explain why they own firearms, how they use them

SPECIAL REPORT GUNS IN OUR COMMUNITY: Editorial - Let's have an informed debate

Listing of Wicked Local rags to find out what (if anything), is being said by your CLEO on the matter...


http://www.wickedlocal.com/section/findyourtown

 

[TheGreekFreak]

So of those 700+ LTC A holders, how many have restrictions? I know a bunch of people in Watertown and have heard its a pain to get an actual unrestricted LTC A. I bet most are restricted.

Not to be a d*ck but when you see a police department take a whole day to find a surrounded teenage punk terrorist and riddle the little boat he was hiding in with bullets yet he makes it out relatively ok, they should voluntarily loosen up their gun restrictions. Any gun control argument in that town should have died that same day.

 

[pupchow]

Not to be a d*ck but when you see a police department take a whole day to find a surrounded teenage punk terrorist and riddle the little boat he was hiding in with bullets yet he makes it out relatively ok, they should voluntarily loosen up their gun restrictions. Any gun control argument in that town should have died that same day.

"CEASE FIRE! CEASE FIRE!"

 

[modernhamlet]

Like I said. This is week 1 of a two week series.

This week is basic background.
what are the gun laws?
what are the demographics?
what are the licensing/purchase processes like?)
what do the various terms mean?

I know the natural reaction here is to find a reason to trash the media, but it's all pretty much "here's the state of guns here in eastern MA today". While you can be pissed about specific quotes from LEOs or whatever, the reporting itself is pretty neutral. At the very least, this is a LOT better treatment of the gun issue than anything I've ever read in the Globe.

Here's another one talking demographics and giving background on 3 local gun owners: http://arlington.wickedlocal.com/news/20160317/special-report-how-many-own-guns-in-arlington

I'm one of the three.

Next week the series shifts to how locals view gun laws and the gun debate more broadly. That's the one you'll probably want to pop your lid over...

 

[Fine Line Firearms]

Sorry, slip of the tongue. I don't see YOU getting interviewed. I said a few things I might take back in hindsight. I just wanted MA readers to feel safe with the laws they got and not feel they need more "protection" (i.e. more laws). Until that moment they hadn't even talked with a MA dealer. They had no clue what we go through to buy a gun.
Sorry if it wasn't perfect. Sure you'll do better next time.

Based on this quote from the article, This guy is a typical Gun Shop Dope. He is required to "Comply" with laws as written, is not empowered to enforce anything.

"According to White, Massachusetts has some of the most restrictive gun laws in the United States."

"Gun owners in Massachusetts are well-vetted," he said. "My job as a dealer is to enforce laws as they're written."

 

[jason19711971]

NRA needs to be a federal funded organization that issues firearm licenses not a town to town basis. If a local official violates the 2nd amendment then the NRA should issue fines or greater punishment to the individual.

 

[MachineHead]

Federal funding means federally controlled. That would be bad...very bad.

 

[dcmdon]

Some of these articles are well done.

http://lexington.wickedlocal.com/article/20160317/NEWS/160316543

 

[Garden12]

Technically different articles. But agree, any of these wickedlocal threads should be merged.

Just got my local rag today and basically same article but different town and different quotes from a gun store owner and the town's chief. I guess every wicked local paper had to do a story on gun ownership.

 

[Knuckle Dragger]

Some things never change...




Complete article @ http://watertown.wickedlocal.com/article/20160317/NEWS/160316291/?Start=1

So, the Watertown chief admits to violating the law on two counts. The fact that they do this is troubling enough. The fact that they feel comfortable admitting to it is doubly troubling.

When you apply in Watertown, you're required to submit a letter explaining why you want to carry a firearm, proof of citizenship, proof of residency, proof of a completed firearms safety course, two letters of recommendation and a $100 fee.



Lawn said the application to permit process in Watertown usually takes about 3 months. After the department processes applicants it goes to the Firearms Record Bureau who then makes the license and sends it back to them.

 

[Coyote33]

All of the local news outlets are jointly doing a 2 article series on guns, with a local point of view. This week is article 1, which as you can see focuses on the current law and how guns are regulated today. Next week will be more about what locals residents think about these laws and the gun debate generally. That's the one that will make folks here go truly nuts...

Wicked Local is running a bunch of stories on gun ownership from all over the state today. ...

So, has GOAL called them in to their offices, to make sure they have the correct information before going "to print" (or online)?

What, exactly, are the pro-gun organizations doing to help out here?

Hopefully, they are on the ball, and we will get some good press out of this.

 

[spt_1955]

Wicked Local is running a bunch of stories on gun ownership from all over the state today. Apparently they have found that gun stories = web traffic.

The Mariners of several towns published articles this week. Wicked Local publishes them online.

Regardless of that fact ... what is the point of this post? "Here we go again".. go where? nothing new here. THe law is the law and has been for quite some time. At least as of 1/1/15 they have to put the "suitability" reason in writing and you can appeal.

 

[M1911]

I had to clean up the thread. Settle down, folks.

 

[Fine Line Firearms]

Really, I have lost count of how many times I have been interviewed by the print, TV and radio media in my life. In fact just two weeks ago I was quoted "Accurately" of the front page of the Keene Sentinel. So if you said it, you own it. If that is not what you said then that would be different, but based on your response you did say it.

As to doing better next time, I don't worry about that because I do it right the first time.

Well, really, good for you. I guess practice makes perfect then. That was my first interview as an FFL.
I almost didn't do it, clearly more downside than up for me, given where I live, but I just couldn't resist the opportunity to try and give "our side" of the story.
I knew it was going to be cherry-picked and so it was. Next time I'll be more careful.
You're right, I admit I f'd that part up and I will own it.

Glad to know someone who gets it "right the first time" though. Please send me your contact info and next time I'll be happy to refer you instead of sitting in the hot seat myself. Though I'm not sure they wanted to interview NH dealers, which I assume you are (though we'll see next week when they get to the politics of their series).
Still, I resent the "Gun Shop Dope" characterization, anyone who knows me knows that's not who I am and clearly, you don't know me.
Isn't the Internet great?

 

[slap shot]

Well, really, good for you. I guess practice makes perfect then. That was my first interview as an FFL.
I almost didn't do it, clearly more downside than up for me, given where I live, but I just couldn't resist the opportunity to try and give "our side" of the story.
I knew it was going to be cherry-picked and so it was. Next time I'll be more careful.
You're right, I admit I f'd that part up and I will own it.

Glad to know someone who gets it "right the first time" though. Please send me your contact info and next time I'll be happy to refer you instead of sitting in the hot seat myself. Though I'm not sure they wanted to interview NH dealers, which I assume you are (though we'll see next week when they get to the politics of their series).
Still, I resent the "Gun Shop Dope" characterization, anyone who knows me knows that's not who I am and clearly, you don't know me.
Isn't the Internet great?

Any publicity right? I never heard of you until this thread so cheers.

 

[Fine Line Firearms]

I really don't want, or need, the "publicity". I'm a really small fish and I like it that way. Nothing but downside to have my words published in any MA publication about guns. I just feel very strongly that there are already enough laws and MA should be looking elsewhere if they want to "end gun crime". Hard to put across in an interview when the interviewer is making their own points. But when I spoke with them they had not even spoken to a dealer, so I volunteered. I knew I was probably gonna take some shit for it, just not here.

 

[noxin]

So, the Watertown chief admits to violating the law on two counts. The fact that they do this is troubling enough. The fact that they feel comfortable admitting to it is doubly troubling.

And....? So What? It's already been proven that there's no repercussions for them breaking the law. Put their wallets where it counts and you might see them actually behaving appropriately.

 

[LoginName]

So, the Watertown chief admits to violating the law on two counts. The fact that they do this is troubling enough. The fact that they feel comfortable admitting to it is doubly troubling.

It also doesn't help matters when the licensing officer (whom is named in the article), is dragging her ass on returning phone calls to let citizens

know what the BS requirements even are... ditto for calling to set up an appointment for first time applicants, or renewals.

http://www.northeastshooters.com/vbulletin/threads/304633-Anybody-renew-in-Watertown-lately

Can't look it up online either since the WPD website has been in "maintenance" mode for close to two months now...

http://www.watertownpd.org/

I realize that it's probably not Lawns or the WPD's problem to correct unless they have some in house person responsible for the site.

If not, at the very least he should be asking someone in the towns IT department WTF is going on.

The 3 month time for processing is inexcusable given that 4-6-8 weeks from time of filing application, interview, to issuing the license, seems to be the new norm

in other communities.

 

[Bourget117]

The 3 month time for processing is inexcusable given that 4-6-8 weeks from time of filing application, interview, to issuing the license, seems to be the new norm

in other communities.

3 months??? I wish mine was 3 months.
Mine was 10!

 

[MisterHappy]

So, has GOAL called them in to their offices, to make sure they have the correct information before going "to print" (or online)?

What, exactly, are the pro-gun organizations doing to help out here?

Hopefully, they are on the ball, and we will get some good press out of this.

Um....unfortunately, GOAL can't "Call them in to their offices," though I'm sure that were the paper to contact GOAL, they'd get info. If the paper is interested in a fair, and correct, piece, they'll get info from more than one reliable source. If they're interested in pushing an agenda, they'll do it differently.

Think of The Donald asking that the protesters leave his venues.

GOAL is not a huge organization; it's up to US, the individuals that have a vested interest, to make sure that the crap that's wrong, or the stuff that's accurate but contrary to law (like the additional requirements) are brought to light. Write a letter to the editor of each and every paper that runs the article pointing out that three months is in direct violation of law; that it's wrong that Town A and Town B should have different rules. Equal protection, anyone?

 

[LoginName]

3 months??? I wish mine was 3 months.
Mine was 10!

I still have about a year and 4 months to go until renewal.

Who knows what the wait time will be like then.

Maybe I should start the application process now?