Pin Shoot Questions

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Hello,

Winchendon R&G is having a pin shoot tomorrow (3/19). I won't be able to make it, at least not the start of it. I would like to shoot it, but it'll have to be another time...

1) Do I have a prayer shooting with 9mm?

2) What is the typical format for this kind of shoot? What are the mechanics of the shoot?

3) What is the best part of the pin to hit to get it off the table?

Thanks,
Matt
 
If they are 10 pins, a 9 might have a chance, IF they are not a 3 foot table. Meaning the pins are set 3 feet from the rear edge of the table.
Hit the body, not the neck or head.
It seems that clubs run pin shoots the way they want, no standard. You need to find out the format they use.
 
Well, I don't think Id have much of a shot with a 9mm...

I went down part way through the shoot today. Looked like fun. Everyone was shooting .45 1911's or .44 revolvers. Some surprisingly dressed up race guns there. I didn't expect to see that.

They use 4x8 sheets of plywood for the table with the pins in the middle of the table.

I was told that, if I were good, I might make it through the 1st hour of the match shooting 9mm. Just not enough momentum.

Looks like fun and an excuse to go paw a SW1911...
 
Even hot 9mm lacks the mass you want for pins. I've tried it with 9 loaded as hot as anyone is going to try. They go down but not as nice as the heavier bullet. I think the bullet penetrates more that you want it too.

A .45 is the ticket. Hollow points or 200+gr flat points. A SW1911 is a good choice as you are all set with IPSC and IDPA with that gun too.
 
It's not the mass, although it helps. It's the frontal area! In 45 ACP, the hot ticket bullet is a 255 SWC that's cast for a .45 Colt. The 200 SWC has too small a flat on it. The 255 at about 800 fps takes pins off (with a good hit) like a sledge hammer. Jerry Miculek used to use a 200 grain Wadcutter in a .357 at Second Chance. The wadcutter had about the same frontal area as the 255. A 9 doesn't have the mass or front surface to take pins off reliably. That's why they had 9 pin.....9 pins set a foot from the back edge. They pretty much fell off when tipped over.
Matt, how was the match run? Against time, or man on man???
 
It was man to man. I'm not sure exatly how they did the split.

They started with 4pins each. The next time up, if you one the prior match, they would add 1 pin. you could end up with as many as 6 pins if you were doind well.

It looked like alot of fun.

Matt
 
So I assume that for IDPA competition you can switch to a .45 for pins, if you happen to prefer a 9mm for the other events?

Might be a good excuse for me to buy another gun. ;)
 
In anything sanctioned, you have to use the same gun throughout, unless you have a broken gun and get an approved replacement of similar configuration. Would you have pins in IDPA anyways? I doubt it. In matchs with steel, the steel should be set to fall with factory 9mm.

However, buy another gun anyways.
 
1) Do I have a prayer shooting with 9mm?

2) What is the typical format for this kind of shoot? What are the mechanics of the shoot?

3) What is the best part of the pin to hit to get it off the table?
I'm not a pin expert. I've only shot pins a few times. But here's my 2 cents...

1) A prayer of winning? Not a chance. A prayer of having fun? Sure.

2) Depends on the club.

3) Only hits count. I think Bill Jordan said "Take your time quickly." I'm not a great shot and I'm not a speed demon. We had a couple pin shoots at my club and only one other member could stay with me. Most of the folks got up there and started yanking the trigger, sending lead downrange as fast they could. I'd clear the six pins with six or seven shots and they'd still have three pins standing.

Again, only hits count. You can't miss fast enough to make up for not hitting.

You've got to align the sights and pull the trigger without disturbing the sight alignment. If you can't do that, you will miss, and each miss wastes time. If you have to reload, you just lost.

As soon as the shot breaks, look for the next pin. Don't watch the first pin to see if it falls -- that wastes too much time. Break the shot, look for the next pin. Your eyes move first, then the gun follows. Decide which way to move (I start on the right side and move left) beforehand. Once you reach the end of the table, then check for pins that didn't fall.

Also, WEAR A HAT AND EYE PROTECTION. There will be bounce-back at a pin shoot. If you shoot pins long enough you will get hit by bounce-back.
 
Take your time and get good hits.

You cannot miss fast enough to catch up.

Once you start missing, stress levels tend to climb, causing you to lose focus, coordination, and concentration.

To go fast, slow down. (Sounds a little strange, but it is true, especially if you are a newbie pin-shooter.)
 
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i think you can hang with the 9mm, if you load hot ones, and you use 147 grain lead flat point loads.
That's what I used to use in my 38 super for taking out pins. I'm sure Steve hasn't tried that, as that was well before I knew him.
Steve still has had the best advice I've seen all day:
"however, buy another gun anyways"
Sound advice.
But take a look at what other top competitors in your chosen sport are using before you just run off and buy something you're stuck with that you don't feel you can be competitive with, and then you think you've wasted your money, and the local gun shop guy wants to give you 30% of what you paid for it on trade for his retail price gun.
 
I shot pins once (only time I was able to get to a shoot) and I used a 9mm, as well as a .38. Both shot very well...or should I say *I* shot very well?? [smile]
 
Matt,
It depends on how the match is run mostly. With a 3 foot drop, bigger is better. I understand that for local matches it doesn't matter so much, usually. I have shot Second Chance years ago, and on 5 pin, little bullets were not the hot setup.
I should add, that at Second Chance, the time stopped when the last pin hit the ground. Not at the shot. Big bullets work better.
 
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Check out www.umlautarms.com for a pin shoot schedule for Chester Rod & Gun Club in Chester NH. They do pistol and rifle pin shoots. I gotta get over there sometime this summer. I bet my .50 Beowulf would knock those pins off for the rifle event, using 335gr flat points! Most use the .223 for the rifle though, as the second round I think is 150yds. Rapid follow up shots over the course of a day of shooting gets a little weak with the Beowulf...
 
re: pin shoots

matt said:
Hello,

Winchendon R&G is having a pin shoot tomorrow (3/19). I won't be able to make it, at least not the start of it. I would like to shoot it, but it'll have to be another time...

1) Do I have a prayer shooting with 9mm?

2) What is the typical format for this kind of shoot? What are the mechanics of the shoot?

3) What is the best part of the pin to hit to get it off the table?

Thanks,
Matt

I've never been beaten by someone shooting a 9, and I'm not that
good. Most people who shoot one round of pins with a nine give
up after the first round, and switch to something bigger.
The problem is the 9 just doesnt have the energy to take the pin
off the table. I think a lot of times the bullets just get stuck in the
pin... if you get solid hits, you might do something, but frankly its a waste
of money to compete with a 9. The hits only count if the pins come
off the table. Also, as the day goes on the pins get heavy. Shooting
a bowling pin that is full of lead with a 9 is an excercise in futility, especially
once it falls over. I'm not bashing 9mm, I just recognize that it's an inferior caliber to shoot bowling pins with.

I would say .40 S+W is the absolute minimum. It seems to work okay,
but .45 ACP is pretty much the dominant caliber, although .44 mag is just
as good, if not better, if you can make every shot count...

Format is usually relay based. A relay will start with like 8 guys and
then get whittled down. Usually the fee is $3 a relay or something, maybe
less, forget what it is. I know at winchendon you get $5 if you get 1st
place, and you get a freebie if you get 2nd place. Shooters are usually
paired off (initially) by known ability or inability... newbies are usually paired
off against newbies, etc. If there are a LOT of shooters (like 16 plus guys)
with multiple relays, that gives you the best opportunity to win as a newbie.

The matches go like this... you bring gun + ammo to the table... if you have
a revolver, you load 6 rounds... autos its 6 rounds to magazine. You can
bring as many speedloaders and mags to the table as you want, as long
as theyre loaded with 6 rounds. You can even bring a box of ammo with
you...

Director confirms pins set up correctly, checks shooter readiness, tells you
to load, fire... match goes on until there is a winner (first person to clear
all pins from table is winner) calls cease fire or blows a whistle. Guns
are emptied and actions cleared and checked. director declares line safe,
then people go out and set up the pins again.

Sometimes with close calls there are redos. If you get a malf there generally are no redos, unless your first shot doesnt go off. This isnt a hard and fast rule.

Now heres the kicker... if you WIN a relay. you get a penalty pin, a handicap
if you will. So now you shoot with 5 pins on the table instead of four. If you
win again, it goes to 6 pins. Some clubs have a max number of pins... I
think winchendon will actually go to 7, I forget. Only experts pretty much
blow past 6. Some clubs max out at six, so the issue is moot.

The best part is usually the biggest part... however, if the pin is
shot out, sometimes the head of it is better to hit. (the logic being the
bullets will pass thru the shot out portion) It all depends on the
circumstances... and the club running the shoot. Winchendon is kinda
lean on the pins as far as replacement goes. Other clubs replace them
at faster intervals during the day, which makes it easier..

-Mike
 
Cross-X said:
Take your time and get good hits.

You cannot miss fast enough to catch up.

Once you start missing, stress levels tend to climb, causing you to lose focus, coordination, and concentration.

To go fast, slow down. (Sounds a little strange, but it is true, especially if you are a newbie pin-shooter.)

I couldn't agree more. The most accurate shooters are the ones that
are the biggest threat out there. Speed will come later.... I'd much
rather miss the LAST pin than waste all my ammo on the third pin.

A little tidbit of info.... I find that the accurate shooters, even if they shoot
very slowly, typically end up doing better than like the lower 40% of the
people in attendance. Shooting accurately and deliberately works
wonders.

Another piece of advice for newbie pin shooters... DO NOT, I repeat.... DO
NOT look at the other guys table.... not even while you are reloading. If you do this, you will waste atrocious amounts of time.. time which could be
used to win. :) One guy I know actually wears like BLINDERS on his
shooting googles to prevent this...

-Mike
 
Mike,

Welcome to the board! Are you from the area? Seems to be several of us out here.

Thanks for the tips. I may go to a shoot just for the heck of it with my 9mm since I don't have anything else at the moment. I'll have to remedy that in time!

Thanks,
Matt
 
matt said:
I may go to a shoot just for the heck of it with my 9mm since I don't have anything else at the moment. I'll have to remedy that in time!

Good idea - get the hang of it with cheap 9mm ammo, then get a REAL gun to compete with!
 
re: pin shoots

matt said:
Mike,

Welcome to the board! Are you from the area? Seems to be several of us out here.

Thanks for the tips. I may go to a shoot just for the heck of it with my 9mm since I don't have anything else at the moment. I'll have to remedy that in time!

Thanks,
Matt

Hi Matt-

Yeah, I'm from Fitchburg. I usually go to most of the area
shoots.

I always bring an extra gun or two with me, so if you'd like to shoot at
a match with one of my guns, let me know. I usually bring
a couple of 1911s and a Sig P220-ST with me. Just bring some cash
for my ammo fund. (About $10/50 rnds of 45 230 gr ball). A box will
generally get you through a relay.

Another tidbit that might be useful for you is Westminster R+G alternates
between wood pins and steel plate rack matches. The plates are
easily doable with 9mm. Yes, its a slightly different format, but a lot
of the same skills are at play. I'm not sure which days this year
are going to be for steel vs wood, etc... they havent told anyone that
yet. If you want directions/dates for westminster, let me know...
(email delta10mm AT gmail.com)


-Mike
 
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