Peterborough shooting club investigated for alleged wetlands violations

[timbo]

Not sure if this is a dupe...

Full court press is on against Monadnock Rod and Gun...WTF?

Peterborough shooting club investigated for alleged wetlands violations

 

[Prepper]

Is there anything we can do to help?

 

[Mountain]

Reads like the same 'anti' playbook being employed by the troublemakers at Granby. Something smells fishy...

 

[Nikos]

Well this smells like a set up. Of course the new "rules" for wetlands is a puddle on your property if the powers that decide it. There sure is a lot more to this story, I wouldn't believe anything the town says.

 

[timbo]

Is there anything we can do to help?

Not sure...I just saw this on WMUR a few minutes back. There are some members here that will probably pipe up. We have a member here "Monadnock" that is one.

 

[Drix]

According to the wetlands mapper from the Fish and Wildlife Services and google view, the wetlands runs to the west of their range by a considerable distance. A brook or stream does follow the range and curve back in, but that curvature happens after the backstop.

This looks like a fishing expedition.

 

[vicorjh]

Reads like the same 'anti' playbook being employed by the troublemakers at Granby. Something smells fishy...

Yup, "The town is alleging that the club expanded its firing range without getting the necessary site plan review and approval."

 

[Asaltweapon]

Having been directly involved with wetland violations I can tell you first hand Google Earth is not your friend. In our case the town was notified by MADEP and the town did not want to get involved so the DEP came after us directly. The plus side of this was we stayed completely out of the local news.

$150,000 later with a $50,000 reduction in fines if we didn't fight and bite the pillow we were set free from their orders.

 

[Noreaster]

$150,000 later with a $50,000 reduction in fines if we didn't fight and bite the pillow we were set free from their orders.

Whoa!!!! Damn!! That's like 6 pre-ban lowers in the classifieds.
Is that something title insurance could have helped with?

 

[Lip]

Not sure if this is a dupe...

Full court press is on against Monadnock Rod and Gun...WTF?

Peterborough shooting club investigated for alleged wetlands violations

Oh f***..

 

[Lip]

I think it's time for a go fund me...

 

[Mountain]

Whoa!!!! Damn!! That's like 6 pre-ban lowers in the classifieds.
Is that something title insurance could have helped with?

Or two parlor rifles! Ok maybe 1 and 1/2...

Legal extortion. Perhaps there are town busy-bodies and/or a developer involved? I can't remember what was the first year I attended a NES shoot, but it was years ago. I've been there enough since to wonder WTH anyone could be considering encroachment on wetland. Must be one bitter @sshole involved to cook up justification for a warrant.

The list of ranges under attack continues to grow. Seems that anything new or expanded is a trigger for the antis to reach into their bag of tricks.

 

[Prepper]

Not sure...I just saw this on WMUR a few minutes back. There are some members here that will probably pipe up. We have a member here "Monadnock" that is one.

I'm a member, but I don't know anything more than anyone else.

 

[Prepper]

According to the wetlands mapper from the Fish and Wildlife Services and google view, the wetlands runs to the west of their range by a considerable distance. A brook or stream does follow the range and curve back in, but that curvature happens after the backstop.

This looks like a fishing expedition.

I looked too... I don't see a wetland issue either. There's 2 green areas on that map well northeast of the range, but I am not sure where the club boundary is. Regardless, it is far from the range.

 

[Mountain]

Check the town's GIS data and you'll see what the property dispute is about. I sure hope the club is in the right- absolutely wonderful people and I've enjoyed many NES events there.

 

[Prepper]

.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Nobody from the club should discuss anything about this. Their lawyers will tell them to STFU and let the lawyers do the talking.

 

[Asaltweapon]

Whoa!!!! Damn!! That's like 6 pre-ban lowers in the classifieds.
Is that something title insurance could have helped with?

No. Like I said DEP does comparisons and overlays all the time. They showed me the file. We got caught fair and square for digging a pond without a permit in a wetland. f***ing Google logos were all over the file.

 

[Mountain]

No. Like I said DEP does comparisons and overlays all the time. They showed me the file. We got caught fair and square for digging a pond without a permit in a wetland. f***ing Google logos were all over the file.

So Big Brother is watching, and his name rhymes with Google...

 

[Asaltweapon]

I should have mentioned the initial overlays are done in IR mode. DEP looks for changes in ground temps as they show up very easy. Then they look at the details.
Ours was found by an intern then investigated. They dug deep. Really, really deep.

 

[Asaltweapon]

So Big Brother is watching, and his name rhymes with Google...

Absolutely looking.

My story is the real deal and I was the contact person. This is not a “friend of a friend who read it on the internet” story.

The file is rather large in my office. The threats were real and it could have gone well near 7 figures with the daily fines. These guys don’t screw around. If we added lawyers it would have only got more expensive.

I know a place in Maine that suffered the same issues but it was not a pond. I interviewed with them.

 

[Sparkey]

F the DEP they caused me nothing but headaches when I built my house for no reason. I get it you don’t want people dumping hazardous waste in wet lands . But most of what they do is cause problems for people that are not warranted.

 

[Sparkey]

No. Like I said DEP does comparisons and overlays all the time. They showed me the file. We got caught fair and square for digging a pond without a permit in a wetland. f***ing Google logos were all over the file.

Did you at least get to keep the pond? or did you have to restore the wet lands ?

 

[Lip]

Name names. The antis should be outed.

 

[Radtekk]

Nobody from the club should discuss anything about this. Their lawyers will tell them to STFU and let the lawyers do the talking.

THIS. Over and over again!

 

[Asaltweapon]

Did you at least get to keep the pond? or did you have to restore the wet lands ?

It was saved with changes. Funny part is we have less wildlife now. The mud that was allowed to run off legally was insane not to mention the fish kill. Actually we never really got the fish back after the changes.

 

[Mountain]

Absolutely looking.

My story is the real deal and I was the contact person. This is not a “friend of a friend who read it on the internet” story.

The file is rather large in my office. The threats were real and it could have gone well near 7 figures with the daily fines. These guys don’t screw around. If we added lawyers it would have only got more expensive.

I know a place in Maine that suffered the same issues but it was not a pond. I interviewed with them.

Holy crap...

Nothing started yet but we have well formed plans and were in the middle of permitting some range improvements before I inherited range responsibility at my local club. This heavy-handed letter agency crap seems like a nightmare. I'll learn more at the next meeting, and once I have a better understanding of the situation I may reach out to you offline for some pointers if it's no trouble. At least in our case there's no change in land footprint but one of the things that tripped up my other club Granby was the pavilion / cover. They rectified the minor issue right away last fall, and last I heard the town still has not reinspected. Coming up on a year now.

Ranges in the Northeast are facing a systematic attack. I don't know if it's simply a collection of individuals who research what others have done and apply the same tactics, or if there are more organized resources to help the antis try to shut down a range. Add up all the activity within the last 24 months and the trend is significant. No, it's nothing new but the frequency is alarming.

 

[Boston4567]

Absolutely looking.

My story is the real deal and I was the contact person. This is not a “friend of a friend who read it on the internet” story.

The file is rather large in my office. The threats were real and it could have gone well near 7 figures with the daily fines. These guys don’t screw around. If we added lawyers it would have only got more expensive.

I know a place in Maine that suffered the same issues but it was not a pond. I interviewed with them.

That's crazy, I had no idea they did this, but here it is, in black and white, and this is from 15 years ago:

Wetlands Reconnaissance Project: In January 2003, DEP, assisted by the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA), developed a new semi-automated computer method that allowed for efficient analysis of all wetland alterations in the state. The process analyzes overlays of color digital orthophoto maps to identify all wetlands fill larger than ¼ acre in size. This is the first high-resolution systematic computerized analysis in the country for identification of wetlands loss in a state, and allows photo-analysts to readily identify wetlands filling since the previous aerial photos were taken. Identifying wetlands alterations on desktop computers is an efficient way to identify possible violations. DEP is using this information to target its compliance and enforcement efforts.

In June 2004, DEP mailed CDs to 225 communities in its northeast, southeast, and central regions. The CDs contain a set of Wetlands Loss maps, supporting information on how to use the GIS files included for the maps, and tables for each town that give specific wetlands loss information in the community.

Source: https://www.mass.gov/files/documents/2016/08/pz/wenfman.pdf

 

[Asaltweapon]

That's crazy, I had no idea they did this, but here it is, in black and white, and this is from 15 years ago:



Source: https://www.mass.gov/files/documents/2016/08/pz/wenfman.pdf

They watched us for a while. I’m sure of it.

 

[Asaltweapon]

Holy crap...

Nothing started yet but we have well formed plans and were in the middle of permitting some range improvements before I inherited range responsibility at my local club. This heavy-handed letter agency crap seems like a nightmare. I'll learn more at the next meeting, and once I have a better understanding of the situation I may reach out to you offline for some pointers if it's no trouble. At least in our case there's no change in land footprint but one of the things that tripped up my other club Granby was the pavilion / cover. They rectified the minor issue right away last fall, and last I heard the town still has not reinspected. Coming up on a year now.

Ranges in the Northeast are facing a systematic attack. I don't know if it's simply a collection of individuals who research what others have done and apply the same tactics, or if there are more organized resources to help the antis try to shut down a range. Add up all the activity within the last 24 months and the trend is significant. No, it's nothing new but the frequency is alarming.

I’d be happy to take this offline with you for a face to face on site if you wish.
These guys don’t screw around and if you think for a split second you’re going to put on the gloves and fight them (DEP) you will only end up bloody and piss poor. I see clubs I belong to doing stuff that could and will be very expensive if they are caught.

Now... Nobody knows in the OP case who initiated this. It could have been a neighbor or drone attack. I want to be very clear that our case was 100% private and a DEP issue. Again, the town turned away from the issue for whatever reason and for all my interactions with them after the fact they never snickered or made a single comment. I actually do respect the ConsCom for their professionalism for our bad deed and my dealings with them on a very large project I built in town.