Permanently altering mags

[kid_fisto]

Lets say you were moving into mass with a cz p07 in 40sw.
Cz only makes 12 rd mags for this pistol. No preban mags exist.

Is it legal to possess the magazine after permanently altering it to accept only 10rds?

Thanks.

 

[winter]

Yes. Rivet it up (or whatever) and you are good to go.

 

[dnepro-mike]

just don't move to MA and you don't have to alter anything.

seriously though, MA law states that magazine should be altered in such a way that is not readily modifiable to be converted back to hi-cap.
there is an interpretations out there to what 'readily modifiable' term really could mean.
someone at some point said 'readily modifiable with ordinary tools'. can you drill out a rivet or dremmel it out? is it easily modifiable are those considered an 'ordinary tools'?
if you get in trouble and prosecutor decides to charge you on every count it is your ass on the line. so if you want to live in MA prepare for 'full retard' and protect your ass as much as possible because you never know.
if you can weld a block inside the mag to restrict capacity it certainly would be better solution than a rivet.

manufacturers who sell ma-compliant guns actually go as far as cuting down mag body short to just fit 10rd. no stamped 'restrictors' on the body or rivets of any kind.
look at this ruger sr9 full size mag body as an example

i maybe too conservative and i'm sure someone will flame me for that, but man, i just want you to be safe. people say a lot of thinks, some puff their chest a bit too much in their drive to challenge authority, but if/when your ass get's in the bind they won't be there.

 

[dnepro-mike]

also before you move do your research with respect to what town you want to live in. some towns don't issue ALP permits at all and some places like Boston have their own laws that are stricter than state law wtr to certain types of weapons

 

[winter]

Using rivets to limit magazines to 10 rounds is being done and sold at even the most fuddish firearm shops in MA.

There is nothing in MGL that states "with ordinary tools". But by those terms, you could modify that SR9 magazine to accept more than 10 rounds with said dremel.

“Large capacity feeding device”, (i) a fixed or detachable magazine, box, drum, feed strip or similar device capable of accepting, or that can be readily converted to accept, more than ten rounds of ammunition or more than five shotgun shells; or (ii) a large capacity ammunition feeding device as defined in the federal Public Safety and Recreational Firearms Use Protection Act, 18 U.S.C. section 921(a)(31) as appearing in such section on September 13, 1994. The term “large capacity feeding device” shall not include an attached tubular device designed to accept, and capable of operating only with,.22 caliber ammunition.

seriously though, MA law states that magazine should be altered in such a way that is not readily modifiable to be converted back to hi-cap.
there is an interpretations out there to what 'readily modifiable' term really could mean.
someone at some point said 'readily modifiable with ordinary tools'. can you drill out a rivet or dremmel it out? is it easily modifiable are those considered an 'ordinary tools'?

 

[dnepro-mike]

Using rivets to limit magazines to 10 rounds is being done and sold at even the most fuddish firearm shops in MA.

There is nothing in MGL that states "with ordinary tools". But by those terms, you could modify that SR9 magazine to accept more than 10 rounds with said dremel.

i never said letter of law says 'ordinary tools'

as for sr9 mag you can not modify it to accept more than 10 because mag body is not long enough.

you go ahead and modify your mags with the rivet, i'll send you a postcard when you get locked-up

 

[shadyduk1979]

So are you selling rivets on gb too, or do you still need people to buy them first?

I would think you can probably mod a post ban mag legally, but I am sure len or rob will be along to say for sure. Ma is a fun state to try and be legal in.

Using rivets to limit magazines to 10 rounds is being done and sold at even the most fuddish firearm shops in MA.

There is nothing in MGL that states "with ordinary tools". But by those terms, you could modify that SR9 magazine to accept more than 10 rounds with said dremel.

 

[ChevyGuy91]

LOL drunk rage posting.

I still don't like you Wayne.

 

[shadyduk1979]

Ah drunk posts LOL

 

[ChevyGuy91]

Ah drunk posts LOL

**** THAT, RAGE POSTS. I am ready, I hope Wayne steps up.

 

[Len-2A Training]

So are you selling rivets on gb too, or do you still need people to buy them first?

I would think you can probably mod a post ban mag legally, but I am sure len or rob will be along to say for sure. Ma is a fun state to try and be legal in.

I can't say for sure as this is untested waters and I have ZERO faith in our court system.

 

[shadyduk1979]

I was afraid you were going to say that

I can't say for sure as this is untested waters and I have ZERO faith in our court system.

 

[Catmouflage]

Things just got real!

**** THAT, RAGE POSTS. I am ready, I hope Wayne steps up.

 

[kid_fisto]

No fights in my threads.

I hate ma. Im moving back to florida some day.

 

[JSnaxx]

Fights happen when you screw over a few dozen gun owners to turn a profit.

As far as the riveting goes. . . *shrug* good luck. I'm not above doing it, and no one has ever called out any of the people I know who do it.

 

[Neverknowsbest]

Fights happen when you screw over a few dozen gun owners to turn a profit.

I feel like I missed a thread. Is he the .22 guy?

 

[Fixxah]

Who the f*ck is wayne?

-Trolling via S3.-

 

[Rob Boudrie]

I can't say for sure as this is untested waters and I have ZERO faith in our court system.

I share Len's inability to say for sure. Anyone who claims to know is making up an answer.

There are several possible definitions of "readily convertible". Many of the major manufacturers have used designs that are not convertible without major parts replacement - short tube with plastic block at the bottom to increase the length, or a combination of cuts and dents such that removing the dent will cause the magazine tune to separate into two pieces.

The magazines that use the cut+dent approach could be converted with a multi-part custom forming die. One part would be steel with a hold that snugly fits the outside of the magazine. A series of tapered forming dies would go on the inside and be pounded in to force the dents on the side of the magazine out. Nobody has made such a product yet since it is easier for those not concerned with the law to buy in a less restrictive state.

One thing is clear - there is no law that specifically states "one a large cap, always a large cap".

 

[Len-2A Training]

One thing is clear - there is no law that specifically states "one a large cap, always a large cap"..

YET!

Given that EOPS has adopted (and adapted) the BATFE mantra of "once a machine gun, always a machine gun" and expanded it to "once an assault weapon, always an assault weapon" . . . it's no great stretch that if they wanted to jack someone up over this, they would implement a new "once a large cap mag, always a large cap mag"!

It's just how they roll.

 

[Rob Boudrie]

YET!

Given that EOPS has adopted (and adapted) the BATFE mantra of "once a machine gun, always a machine gun" and expanded it to "once an assault weapon, always an assault weapon" . . . it's no great stretch that if they wanted to jack someone up over this, they would implement a new "once a large cap mag, always a large cap mag"!

It's just how they roll.

Interestingly, the EOPS has never taken that approach with a stripped frame or lower.

 

[atilla]

Who the f*ck is wayne?

-Trolling via S3.-

winter. he stole from a bunch of us basically. used AR lowers from a NES group buy to turn a profit when he sold them on gunbroker--stuff he bought with OUR money. he's been feeding the remaining folks in the buy bullshit and not delivering. i got a refund for my lower but still have money tied up in a jig he'll probably never produce.

 

[jasons]

Yes. Rivet it up (or whatever) and you are good to go.

Got a cite for that load of steaming bullshit?

 

[warwickben]

When i was looking into making a ar45(grease gun mags)
i was told if you mod a pre ban mag to work in another gun it has to be able to still work in the gun it was first made for not sure if its true or not.

 

[winter]

MGL states if a magazine can be "readily converted" and by no stretch of the definition that means without tools.

I am not a MA politician so I could be wrong about the MA definition of readily.

Got a cite for that load of steaming bullshit?

I am sure that if it did not work with the original firearm, they could get you with creating a new post ban high capacity magazine.

When i was looking into making a ar45(grease gun mags)
i was told if you mod a pre ban mag to work in another gun it has to be able to still work in the gun it was first made for not sure if its true or not.

 

[KMM696]

When i was looking into making a ar45(grease gun mags)
i was told if you mod a pre ban mag to work in another gun it has to be able to still work in the gun it was first made for not sure if its true or not.

IIRC, that was a BATF tech branch ruling during the federal ban. No one (that I know of) has tested whether MA courts are following any,all or some of the determinations of the BATF, since they are not contained in the actual verbiage of the federal law that MA copied.

And I'd love to confirm that one way or the other, as the spillover could be huge.



ETA: Found copy of ATF letter - there's a collection of them on NFATCA's page.