Pennsylvania non resident license

JRT

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Yup, I had one issued mail-order by judge Willard Cass (now ret.) of Chautauqua County. Too bad about their policy of adding an expiration date to non-resident licenses.

Willard is retired but his son Steven took his place. He's a 2A supporter and will issue if you have a any tie to NYS.


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From another forum:


Posted February 25 2015 - 03:55 PM
I emailed the PA AG office just to be certain of PA / NH reciprocity. I got the following response on 2-25-2015:


Question - At the present time, is a New Hampshire non-resident CCW license holder granted CCW reciprocity in Pennsylvania?

AG office answer - Pennsylvania currently honors all concealed carry permits issued by the State of New Hampshire based on an agreement between our states. That agreement may be found at https://www.attorney...ity_Agreements/. Agreements are subject to change. If the agreement is changed or cancelled, the information on our website will be updated.


Question - If a New Hampshire non-resident CCW license holder is currently granted CCW reciprocity in Pennsylvania, is there any intention to end this reciprocity? If so, please provide the specific date that this reciprocity will end

AG office answer - At this time, there are no imminent changes to this agreement pending
 

BostonFJ40

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Willard is retired but his son Steven took his place. He's a 2A supporter and will issue if you have a any tie to NYS.


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Can you please expand upon that statement?


This is what I received from the state police last week:

"Mr. FJ40,
Unfortunately there are no provisions in NYS Laws that allow for anyone permanently residing outside of NYS to be able to obtain a permit that allows someone to possess a pistol/handgun in New York State.

New York State (NYS) does not allow for the possession of pistols/handguns by anyone not licensed by NYS to possess same. In order to be licensed to possess a firearm in NYS, one has to maintain ownership real property in this State. Currently, your possession of a pistol or revolver in NYS would be unlawful.

Please re-contact me if you have any questions.

Inv. C.A. Hunt, NYSP-Pistol Permit Bureau"


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JRT

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Can you please expand upon that statement?


This is what I received from the state police last week:

"Mr. FJ40,
Unfortunately there are no provisions in NYS Laws that allow for anyone permanently residing outside of NYS to be able to obtain a permit that allows someone to possess a pistol/handgun in New York State.

New York State (NYS) does not allow for the possession of pistols/handguns by anyone not licensed by NYS to possess same. In order to be licensed to possess a firearm in NYS, one has to maintain ownership real property in this State. Currently, your possession of a pistol or revolver in NYS would be unlawful.

Please re-contact me if you have any questions.

Inv. C.A. Hunt, NYSP-Pistol Permit Bureau"


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I bought some land along the southern tier in Cattaraugus and Chautauqua county and was able to get a pistol permit after some effort.
 

RKG

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We drove down to Bellefonte a month ago. Entire renewal process took 18 minutes, including a discussion of best places to have lunch. People behind the desk couldn't have been nicer.
 

Rob Boudrie

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New York State (NYS) does not allow for the possession of pistols/handguns by anyone not licensed by NYS to possess same. In order to be licensed to possess a firearm in NYS, one has to maintain ownership real property in this State. Currently, your possession of a pistol or revolver in NYS would be unlawful.
They are forgetting NY penal code 265.20 - 13 that provides a competition exemption.

There is also no requirement that a NY State resident own "real property" in NY. Renters who reside in NY are also allowed to get a pistol permit. I do not think that ownership of property in NY conveys the right to obtain a pistol permit unless one established residency.
 
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Joe G

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I think you're right. I believe a PA resident could get a NR permit in MA, so I don't see their issue with giving you a PA license unless it's something stupid having to do with "MA restrictions," and my not-at-all-educated guess is that this is a mistake, will get corrected, and their employees will eventually get properly trained.

The PA license is probably good for at least 4-5 years, so why not tell them to hold it for you until you come back next year if that's when you'll be in the area next? Did they say you had to pick it up within a certain period of time? I may have been pissed off in that situation, and maybe not thought of this, but it seems it still would have been worth putting in the license application since you were already there, and they should just hold it for you until you come back.
I'll be following up with the Bucks County Sheriff's office by phone when I'm back in MA to see what the issue is. From both GOAL and the MGL online it doesn't seem there should be an issue.

WRT Montgomery county, I called them while I was outside the Bucks County courthouse. It would have been another hour drive to apply there in person. Not logistically possible to be away from the in-laws for that long.
Just get a NH non-res, and you're GTG in PA, right?
Yeah, but I'd rather have the real thing in hand than depend on reciprocity agreements that can change without notice.
 
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They are forgetting NY penal code 265.20 - 13 that provides a competition exemption.

There is also no requirement that a NY State resident own "real property" in NY. Renters who reside in NY are also allowed to get a pistol permit. I do not think that ownership of property in NY conveys the right to obtain a pistol permit unless one established residency.

At least not since the Jim Crow laws were overturned by the courts.
 
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Has anyone had success with a restricted MA license? I have a NH NR, but I'm thinking of getting the PA NR anyway during an upcoming visit. Will be trying the Lancaster Sheriff's department probably.
 
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Has anyone had success with a restricted MA license? I have a NH NR, but I'm thinking of getting the PA NR anyway during an upcoming visit. Will be trying the Lancaster Sheriff's department probably.
I tried with a restricted license and they told me no because there wasn't an equivalent PA license. Call and verify
 
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If you can make it down there.

I've carried on my FL or UT permit before they shut down that reciprocity because Philadelphia people were using UT permits to carry in PA.

If I had reason to need to carry. I'd try to get documentation from the AG that it is legal, and call it a day.

Is there anything on the AG web site or are there any letters saying NH is honored?
 
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If you can make it down there.

I've carried on my FL or UT permit before they shut down that reciprocity because Philadelphia people were using UT permits to carry in PA.

If I had reason to need to carry. I'd try to get documentation from the AG that it is legal, and call it a day.

Is there anything on the AG web site or are there any letters saying NH is honored?

There are emails from the AG's office to individuals saying that all NH licenses are honored. However, this is from the PA state Police website:

Note that to lawfully carry a concealed firearm in Pennsylvania, a person must either:
  • 1 - possess a valid Pennsylvania License to Carry Firearms,
  • 2 - maintain residency in, and possess a valid license/permit to carry a firearm from a state with which Pennsylvania has a current reciprocity agreement or
  • 3 - fall within the applicable exceptions in 18 Pa. C.S. §6106(2)(b) as listed above, including §6106(2)(b)(15) regarding licenses/permits to carry a firearm recognized under Pennsylvania law without a formal reciprocity agreement.


  • Also, the Lancaster county sheriff told me that my NH NR was no good in PA. So, what I take from this discrepancy is this:

    If I want to carry in PA on my NH NR, I can, and if I get pulled over by a state or local police officer there is a decent chance that I will be arrested. If I get arrested, the local DA will likely not choose to prosecute since the AG holds the position that the AG does. This is still much more hassle than $20, which is less than I paid for my NH NR. Besides, I visit family in Philly sometimes, and I trust DA and police there much less than I trust them in the parts of PA that I am normally in.
 
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Ok. Since Im not a big fan of speculation, I called the PA atty general office.

She said there had been a lot of interest in this question over the last few weeks. She said that it is in legal review now and that she will send me info as she finds out. At this point they are advising people with non resident NH permits to not carry there.

She is going to send me copies of internal discussions on the matter. I will post them here as I get them.

Don
 
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Ok. Since Im to a big fan of speculation, I called the PA atty general office.

She said there had been a lot of interest in this question over the last few weeks. She said that it is in legal review now and that she will send me info as she finds out. At this point they are advising people with non resident NH permits to not carry there.

She is going to send me copies of internal discussions on the matter. I will post them here as I get them.

Don

Figures. The previous attorney general had a page that clearly said that it was fine. The current AG is an anti.
 
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There are emails from the AG's office to individuals saying that all NH licenses are honored. However, this is from the PA state Police website:



Also, the Lancaster county sheriff told me that my NH NR was no good in PA. So, what I take from this discrepancy is this:

If I want to carry in PA on my NH NR, I can, and if I get pulled over by a state or local police officer there is a decent chance that I will be arrested. If I get arrested, the local DA will likely not choose to prosecute since the AG holds the position that the AG does. This is still much more hassle than $20, which is less than I paid for my NH NR. Besides, I visit family in Philly sometimes, and I trust DA and police there much less than I trust them in the parts of PA that I am normally in.
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Your logic only makes sense if you get pulled over, pulled out of the car, arrested, and charged.

If there is a 1:1,000,000,000 chance of this happening, then its much less hassle to do nothing than it is to spend a day in PA, even if it only cost $20.
 
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Your logic only makes sense if you get pulled over, pulled out of the car, arrested, and charged.

If there is a 1:1,000,000,000 chance of this happening, then its much less hassle to do nothing than it is to spend a day in PA, even if it only cost $20.

Except that I'll be there anyway. I haven't been pulled over ever anywhere, but I figure that it will happen eventually.
 

drgrant

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Your logic only makes sense if you get pulled over, pulled out of the car, arrested, and charged.

If there is a 1:1,000,000,000 chance of this happening, then its much less hassle to do nothing than it is to spend a day in PA, even if it only cost $20.

Using that logic you could pretty much argue your way out of not obtaining any kind of gun license, LOL. I look at it this way, even if they try to prosecute me and it fails, I'm going to be out the time that got stolen from me (probably a day of vacation) have to pay for the car to get towed and all that bullshit, at a bare minimum. It's not worth it. So it's spending $20 to avoid a potential $500+ screw job. Anytime you can wave a card at a LEO and get them to go away it's a good thing.

-Mike
 
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Except that I'll be there anyway. I haven't been pulled over ever anywhere, but I figure that it will happen eventually.

Not just pulled over. Pulled over, searched, and arrested.

- - - Updated - - -

Using that logic you could pretty much argue your way out of not obtaining any kind of gun license, LOL. I look at it this way, even if they try to prosecute me and it fails, I'm going to be out the time that got stolen from me (probably a day of vacation) have to pay for the car to get towed and all that bullshit, at a bare minimum. It's not worth it. So it's spending $20 to avoid a potential $500+ screw job. Anytime you can wave a card at a LEO and get them to go away it's a good thing.

-Mike

He described a situation where the AG was saying it was legal and the PD was saying it was not.

I'm not (this time) advocating people break the law.
 
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I got this from the AG's office:

Mr. XXX,
This is the information that I have about New Hampshire reciprocity.

It is a PA requirement that in order to recognize any out-of-state CCW permit, the permit holder MUST be a resident of the state that has issued the CCW permit. This residency requirement is regardless of the type of reciprocity involved (ie. written, statutory or unilateral).

Any out-of-state person seeking to have a valid PA CCW permit may apply for one with any PA Sheriff’s Office.

Here is a link to our website for the firearm reciprocity agreements:
https://www.attorneygeneral.gov/Media_and_Resources/Firearm_Reciprocity_Agreements/
 
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I got this from the AG's office:

Mr. XXX,
This is the information that I have about New Hampshire reciprocity.

It is a PA requirement that in order to recognize any out-of-state CCW permit, the permit holder MUST be a resident of the state that has issued the CCW permit. This residency requirement is regardless of the type of reciprocity involved (ie. written, statutory or unilateral).

Any out-of-state person seeking to have a valid PA CCW permit may apply for one with any PA Sheriff’s Office.

Here is a link to our website for the firearm reciprocity agreements:
https://www.attorneygeneral.gov/Media_and_Resources/Firearm_Reciprocity_Agreements/

Good to know. So the wording of the agreement allowing all licensees was basically a mistake that they aren't planning to honor anymore.

It's also interesting that they say that "may apply for one with any PA Sheriff's Office" when several Sheriffs refuse to accept applications, and even have signs up saying so.
 
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Did my PA non-res today. In and out of the Lancaster Sherifs office in 30 min. While talking to the clerk about the process I mentioned how it compared to MA and she was amazed at how many hoops we have to jump through up here.
 
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