Pelham or Bradford?

[7.62x39]

Both are holding USPSA matches on June 18th. I have never shot at either club before. However I hope to participate in shoots at both clubs eventually, but Which match should I attend this weekend?

PS: Both are equal distance from me.

 

[DarrenL]

Both are holding USPSA matches on June 18th. I have never shot at either club before. However I hope to participate in shoots at both clubs eventually, but Which match should I attend this weekend?

PS: Both are equal distance from me.

Well, I'm going to Pelham, so that automatically makes the Pelham match better.

Seriously, though, I have never been to Bradford, but the Pelham crew puts on a really good match. There are generally two large field courses, three smaller field courses, and a classifier.

 

[GM]

Have not been to Bradford too, but last time in Pelham the match was great - good variety of skills needed for the stages. New time I am going to Pelham as well.

 

[DW357]

I vote for Pelham since I've never been to Bradford before lol. And Bradford is over 2 hours from me and Pelham is just under an hour.

 

[7.62x39]

I vote for Pelham since I've never been to Bradford before lol. And Bradford is over 2 hours from me and Pelham is just under an hour.

I almost wish I had a simple tie breaker like that. According to google map One is 1hr 11min away from me and the other is 1hr 17min away. No help there LOL

 

[DarrenL]

I almost wish I had a simple tie breaker like that. According to google map One is 1hr 11min away from me and the other is 1hr 17min away. No help there LOL

You could go to practiscore and see how many women are attending? Not that I would ever make a decision based on something like that.

 

[hedgehound]

I shot at both. They both are great clubs, and have great matches. Bradford has indoor plumbing within reach. Pelham has "lava trees".

 

[Overlord]

I'm in for Bradford....suppose that will ensure an all day soaking rain. Go to Pehham or bring spare socks.

 

[CTjer]

I'll be at Bradford. Been to a few matches there and they've been great. The BAS crew are a great bunch of guys. There will be a cooler on one stage filled with icey cold beverages and a fridge full for after the match too. Probably get to shoot more after the match as well.


Can't speak on Pioneer. Too long a haul for me.

 

[7.62x39]

According to practiscore there are only two openings left for this Sundays match at Bradford.

 

[CTjer]

Keeping it to 35 competitors with 4 Squads, will ensure that you aren't standing around too long and you won't be there for 7-8hrs.

 

[7.62x39]

Keeping it to 35 competitors with 4 Squads, will ensure that you aren't standing around too long and you won't be there for 7-8hrs.

If they have 7 stages, why only 4 squads? Not enough ROs?

 

[SJan]

I'll be at Pelham. It is slightly further away for me than Bradford. I am sure there will be more competition for me at Pelham, that is why I will be going there

 

[Bdh821]

I'll be at Pelham. Prepare to lose! Haha jk my gun will malfunction most likely

 

[SJan]

I'll be at Pelham. Prepare to lose! Haha jk my gun will malfunction most likely

put the dot away... shoot limited!

 

[Bdh821]

put the dot away... shoot limited!

Aiming is hard.

 

[CTjer]

If they have 7 stages, why only 4 squads? Not enough ROs?

That could be it. There is also only 3.5 bays. Usually 2 stages per bay.


They do a great job and anyone who helps with these matches knows how much work goes into it. It's usually only the same handful of guys too.

I think they are building a solid foundation down there (or over there from me)

 

[breyton490]

Keeping it to 35 competitors with 4 Squads, will ensure that you aren't standing around too long and you won't be there for 7-8hrs.

+1 like that idea.... dedicating an entire day to shooting, although fun, ends up the reason I can't make many matches. If I could be thru the course in 4 hours +/- that would be great.. Would love to see a morning squad and afternoon squad option... that way you could still cycle thru a lot of shooters, but not make it an 8 hour affair for everyone.. I would be willing to pay more to pick a time slot....

 

[7.62x39]

.... dedicating an entire day to shooting, although fun, ends up the reason I can't make many matches. If I could be thru the course in 4 hours +/- that would be great....

It took Us approximately 5 hours in total. First shots @9am and we were finished @2pm. Thanks to the guys at Bradford for a very enjoyable shoot. I will be back for sure.

 

[Bradford Action Shooters]

7.62 - Ideally, we want everyone driving home by 1 PM. That match ran to long for a couple of reasons. Foggy driving conditions caused a several late entrants delaying the start, but the biggest delay was cause by unbalanced stage lengths that led to back up. That was the fault of the MD - my bad! Sorry about that! A genius squad (I think it was Matt's idea) saved the day by jumping to an open bay and that really helped get the match back on track.

Breyton490 - Story time....I shot a match last year on a 17 man squad. I was the first shooter. I then moved down 2 for the next stage and shot again...two hours later. I left the house at 6 AM, got home at 6 PM. Hey - I love shooting, but that was a long day.

So we talked about this and how the sport just doesn't scale up very well beyond 8-9 shooters a squad. And we came up with an idea for "concierge service" or Fastpass service the late afternoon before the match. Double the match fee and get shooters through the match in a 1/2 hour. One or two shooters per squad, 5 minutes max per pit. Exceed the time limit and you get a punitive measure like zero the stage or catch a procedural! Start times on the half hour by appointment in advance. Arrive early if you want to learn the stages or watch others shoot. The stage reading happens outside the shooting time. Shooters get a shortened walk through and preshot routine. The RO keeps a stopwatch, calls and enters the scores, the shooter tapes. Total competitor time on the property: Less than 1 hour.

At Bradford, we have 4 pits and typically run 6-7 stages. So we could theoretically process 16 shooters an hour. In 3 hours we could process 48 shooters - that's our whole match - The staff is done by 12 noon and completes the breakdown by 1 PM. It works out the same as a normal match, but runs way better for the shooters!

Some one smarter than me tell me why we're not doing this already? What's the pitfall that I missed?

We're willing to give this a pilot run at our next match. Let me know if you want to give it a try. LOL - It could revolutionize the sport as we know it!

Best wishes,

BAS

 

[SJan]

At a sanctioned USPSA match, as a match director, you must offer each stage to every shooter the same way. Chapter 3 of the rule book covers this. Pertains to written stage briefing, walkthrough time ect.

 

[7.62x39]

... And we came up with an idea for "concierge service" or Fastpass service the late afternoon before the match. Double the match fee and get shooters through the match in a 1/2 hour.

I would be on that in a heartbeat. I have pretty severe nerve damage in my leg due to a motorcycle accident many years ago.
Add to that a knee that needs replacement and an arthritic hip. Bottom line is that my right leg is really jacked up.

The more time I spend on my feet the worse it gets. It was aching so bad by the time we finished shooting on Sunday that I was concerned about driving home.

If there was an express lane option I would take it even if it was not official in the eyes of USPSA. Lets face it, I can no longer move fast enough to ever be competitive, but I still want to shoot.

 

[Happy feet]

I could defiantly see some one who picked a time and ran through all the stages in half an hour having a definite advantage over some one who spent 5 hours taping targets in the blazing sun/ freezing cold/rain etc. Both a physical and mental advantage. It's a lot easier to stay focused for 1/2 an hour opposed to 5 hours

 

[Overlord]

At a sanctioned USPSA match, as a match director, you must offer each stage to every shooter the same way. Chapter 3 of the rule book covers this. Pertains to written stage briefing, walkthrough time ect.

Yup, flag on that play for sure....though it is a nice idea for an non sanctioned match that had a lot of shooters.

 

[GM]

I could defiantly see some one who picked a time and ran through all the stages in half an hour having a definite advantage over some one who spent 5 hours taping targets in the blazing sun/ freezing cold/rain etc. Both a physical and mental advantage. It's a lot easier to stay focused for 1/2 an hour opposed to 5 hours

I had the first-hand experience with this type of matches. When I lived in Russia, I used to go to a Club that ran club matches in this manner - shooter goes from one stage to another, no taping or waiting required. They used to reload mags for you - while you shoot, they load your spare mags for speed. Six stages - and you can be done under 20 minutes, including walking between shooting galleries and learning the stages. So, one had to focus only on shooting. After that my first few 'regular matches' with hours of waiting, taping and other distractions were a disaster for me - by the end of the day I was mixing up the stage plans and forgetting to engage targets on long 'memory' stages.

Fast track would be a dramatic advantage.

 

[peterthefish]

At a sanctioned USPSA match, as a match director, you must offer each stage to every shooter the same way. Chapter 3 of the rule book covers this. Pertains to written stage briefing, walkthrough time ect.

Easy enough to give the same WSB to each shooter. As far as walkthrough, just make day 1 invite only - everyone who asks gets an invite, but if they exceed the time on walkthroughs they don't get another invite.

I could defiantly see some one who picked a time and ran through all the stages in half an hour having a definite advantage over some one who spent 5 hours taping targets in the blazing sun/ freezing cold/rain etc. Both a physical and mental advantage. It's a lot easier to stay focused for 1/2 an hour opposed to 5 hours

No different than staff day which can move a bit faster. I don't think it's any competitive advantage.

 

[SJan]

I could defiantly see some one who picked a time and ran through all the stages in half an hour having a definite advantage over some one who spent 5 hours taping targets in the blazing sun/ freezing cold/rain etc. Both a physical and mental advantage. It's a lot easier to stay focused for 1/2 an hour opposed to 5 hours

Easy enough to give the same WSB to each shooter. As far as walkthrough, just make day 1 invite only - everyone who asks gets an invite, but if they exceed the time on walkthroughs they don't get another invite.



No different than staff day which can move a bit faster. I don't think it's any competitive advantage.

I see it as very different than staff day [at a major match]

Who do you think set up the stages? The people shooting on staff day just spent at least a full day setting up, many of them spent 2+ full days either setting up stages, or doing other chores around the hosting club in preparation for the match. Many of the folks shooting on staff day are doing so without having practiced the day prior, like many of the Saturday/Sunday shooters will do. Believe me, the staff have absolutely no competitive advantage, arguably they may have a disadvantage.

You are right about staff day moving along efficiently. It is because these are the people who know how to RO, score, and reset a stage quickly without any wasted time.

The 'Fastpass' idea does sound great as a shooter. I just don't see it as being realistic at a USPSA match.

It sounds similar to an open squadding format, partly what Gaidar talked about minus the somebody loading your mags for you part. The problem with that format, is the staff commitment is much greater compared to a squad + RO shooting together and moving to each stage together format.

If USPSA matches were solely based on a for profit plan, the Fastpass thing would be most appealing to shooters, and I'm sure many would pay 2,3,even 4 times standard entry fee to shoot through and not have to tape or re-set anything, and complete an entire match in under an hour.

 

[peterthefish]

I agree that workload wise there's a difference from staff day. But short of picking up the rule book (feeling lazy) if there's no exception for staff day called out in the rules I don't think from a rules perspective it should be treated any differently.

I would happily pay double to show up at a pre-agreed time and shoot through. If that meant taking a 90 second wakthrough and not getting to watch how better shooters game the stages that's OK w me.

 

[Bradford Action Shooters]

How's this sound...Idea #2....

We limit squad size to 3 or 4 and start them them every 15 minutes. Now a 6 stage match lasts 90 minutes for a competitor. There's no competitive advantage as everyone gets the same deal.

The match staff is still there for the full 4-5 hours so maybe we charge and extra $10 bucks and pay the staff for their hard work? I like Giadar's model alot.

I'll check with our area coordinators and see if these types of pilots are acceptable to USPSA.

Thanks and stay tuned.

BAS

 

[GM]

What about shooters going one by one from stage to stage. After the first shooter, the second learns the stage while the staff is taping the stage. Every shooter is on the clock for learning and programming the stage - everyone gets the same time. Shooters arrive 15 mins in advance before their 'scheduled' time. Missing your slot - have to wait till the end.

The issue with that - staff will have to tape the stage with no support from shooters. That should be compensated, and staff should be paid for the effort. Another issue - people not being on time will make staff wait, and schedule goes sideways.