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PCC people

DPR

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what is the factual, real life practical incentive to shoot 9mm at 400yds, ever? or even 100yds?
i am not gonna lie - i do not understand all the hype behind the PCC. if there are any aficionados of it here - can you calmly explain your point of view, please?
i am not attacking at all and as open minded as anybody else - only want to hear your opinion.
I see no real life-practical incentive for PCC/9mm beyond 25yds. There are other tools for that.
Real life/practical?-hands down beats a pistol as a bedside gun.
They are fun to shoot, ez to shoot fast and still be accurate which makes them more funner to shoot.
 

Wickedcoolname

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PCCs and sub machine guns were the tools of choice for hostage rescue teams and other CQC units for years. The H&K MP5 for example is an excellent pistachio caiber weapon. Normally used up close and personal it's also fairly effective out much farther.
 

paul73

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allen-1

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Anything and everything.
I've seen the Rugers, A.R. style, the J.R.C, I'm pretty sure someone from Mansfield ran an H.K. last year. Anything thats considered a Rifle that shoots pistol caliber.

Real popular in Steel Challenge.
U.S.P.S.A has a provision like said above.
I'm pretty sure I.D.P.A. does too.

There may be a "production list" out there for each of the games but its pretty lenient.

IDPA has a PCC division. Guy I worked GA State with shot one. His was equipped with a laser as well as optics, and he was insanely fast with it. He took 3rd place overall - and there was some pretty serious competition.

I shot mine in Steel Challenge last weekend, along with my Carry Optic G34. I felt awkward handling the PCC, as I haven't practiced with it very much. I was still faster overall than with my Carry Optic, about 9 seconds for the match. Coming up from low ready as opposed to drawing from surrender, over the course of 20 counted stages adds up. Missing a plate on The Pendulum with my CO and not realizing it, (continuing on to Stop Plate), didn't help either.
 
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Simplicity of design-straight blowback-was the main attraction for me, reliability of the cx4 storm even prior to sp working their magic was another, the wierd looks sealed the deal. Turned out to be one expensive gun though, just north of 3 large total worth every penny and more- now sadly it would take a great deal of cash for us to decide to sell. Would buy a .45 in a heartbeat.......
 

TrashcanDan

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IDPA has a PCC division. Guy I worked GA State with shot one. His was equipped with a laser as well as optics, and he was insanely fast with it. He took 3rd place overall - and there was some pretty serious competition.

I shot mine in Steel Challenge last weekend, along with my Carry Optic G34. I felt awkward handling the PCC, as I haven't practiced with it very much. I was still faster overall than with my Carry Optic, about 9 seconds for the match. Coming up from low ready as opposed to drawing from surrender, over the course of 20 counted stages adds up. Missing a plate on The Pendulum with my CO and not realizing it, (continuing on to Stop Plate), didn't help either.

A lot of the rfri/rfro shooters do the pcc as well. Insanely fast.
 

Varmint

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what is the factual, real life practical incentive to shoot 9mm at 400yds, ever? or even 100yds?
i am not gonna lie - i do not understand all the hype behind the PCC. if there are any aficionados of it here - can you calmly explain your point of view, please?
i am not attacking at all and as open minded as anybody else - only want to hear your opinion.

Suppressed with a short (8-10"?) barrel, 30 round mag, they make a lot of sense for home defense. Ma**h*** 16" barrel unsuppressed with 10 round mag? Not so much.
 

Kevin_NH

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Suppressed with a short (8-10"?) barrel, 30 round mag, they make a lot of sense for home defense. Ma**h*** 16" barrel unsuppressed with 10 round mag? Not so much.
For semi-rural home/curtilage defense, a shorty 9mm with suppressor and standard capacity magazine checks all the boxes for me here in NH.

Pick the right ammo and the can suppresses muzzle flash (preserving vision at night). Sure, it's no "battle rifle", but 9mm is plenty effective where the longest line of sight is maybe 50 yards, and my longest interior hallway isn't even a quarter of that.
 

paul73

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Suppressed with a short (8-10"?) barrel, 30 round mag, they make a lot of sense for home defense. Ma**h*** 16" barrel unsuppressed with 10 round mag? Not so much.
yeah, an x95 with a pre-ban 30 rnd mag ticks all the boxes for me.
also, just saying 'suppressed' in MA is probably already a felony by itself. :)
 

citoriguy

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I have 2 and they’re fun to shoot. My range doesn’t allow them indoors and don’t always go to the range with me when I shoot rifles. I play with them at 25 and 50 yards. I can’t see myself shooting out to 100 yards (though I have on occasion) let alone 400(+), with my PCCs.
 

AHM

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-You can shoot them on indoor ranges where rifle calibers aren't allowed or heavily restricted
(Innocent bystanders should check their own range's rules very carefully:
My club's indoor range of course allows 9mm ammo,
but the only longarms allowed are .22LR).

What else do you arm your kids under age 5 with when TEOTWAWKI happens?
I can't find the video I saw this week of an operating operator little girl
shooting a pistol with three rapid mag dumps while standing free.
So I'll have to post this instead.
CfqLBFXWEAAqI6N.jpg



one says - adjustable, other says - fixed. is it the same damn picture there?
ok, i think i get it - they ran a pin into it. is it removable or welded in permanently?
Dunno, but unless someone answers authoritatively here,
you need to either find a detailed review/Q&A on some other site,
or fondle it yourself in real life.

Because look at the Massified Ruger AR-15:
1.jpg

The stock is fixed.

Despite casual appearances,
the adjuster is not some spring-loaded dingus
that lifts a pin out of an array of holes in the rectangular ridge
on the bottom of the receiver extension tube.
MilSpec-4.jpg

The Massified AR's rectangular bottom ridge has no slot, and no extra holes.

There is no spring, the lever is there for show, and that's not a pin -
it's a machine screw that screws into something threaded (the ridge?),
and holds the butt at one fixed place.
El no adjusto, el no collapso.

At casual glance you wouldn't know that.

Move out of Mass and it's not gonna break the bank
to entirely replace the extension/stock with some Magpul furniture.

But there is no roll pin to drill out,
and you're not gonna just replace the machine screw with a sprung pin -
there are no holes for a pin to latch in to.

Somewhere there's probably a maniac with a milling machine
that has converted their stock to adjustable, just because.
But it's not trivial.


Not impugning the Ruger PCC you're looking at.

Just saying that Ruger may have done some engineering design
to make the stock look adjustable at first glance,
even though somehow it's completely neutered.
 
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For those with the Ruger, what is the appeal to being able to remove the barrel and more importantly is this a wear point and can accuracy degrade?
 

cathouse01

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damn, now i am lost.
and

one says - adjustable, other says - fixed. is it the same damn picture there?
ok, i think i get it - they ran a pin into it. is it removable or welded in permanently?
The 19126 is the only Ruger PC with a pistol grip that is MA compliant out of the box, all the rest come with a threaded barrel. You could get one with a threaded barrel and pin/weld a break on it so that it would only have 1 evil feature (you could pin weld the thread protector, but that makes little sense).

! have a CX4 Storm and an AR9 build. Of the two I prefer the Storm, since it is designed as a PCC from the ground up. I also like the fact that it takes my 92 FS mags. The AR9 was built from a Foxtrot Mike AR9 build kit. I just supplied a Glock mag compatible AR9 lower. Nice thing about the kit (which they no longer provide) was that it came with a buffer and buffer spring matched to the bolt. One of the things you have to be careful of in an AR9 build is getting the proper buffer/buffer spring combo to work with your particular 9mm blow back bolt. The kit eliminated that concern.

If I was heavily invested in Glocks, I would definitely go with the Ruger PC, since it takes Glock mags. And I would be tempted to go with a standard stock and threaded barrel rather than a pistol grip. If you ever move to a free state, swapping stocks out is easy to do yourself. Getting a barrel threaded or removing a pin/welded brake is usually a gun smith operation. Given the minimum recoil of a PCC, I don’t think the advantage of a pistol grip out weighs the ability to swap out muzzle devices. If you end up in a free state, you could put a suppressor and tactical stock on it yourself with minimal effort. And to be honest, a PCC just cries out to be suppressed.
 

hedgehound

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-If you want to compete, There's now a USPSA division with it. USPSA generally didnt have anything rifle-like because a lot of club action pits and steel
not set up for rifle calibers, so it adds new dimension to sport.
-Some of them look cool and are fun to shoot.

Precisely my reasons. Plus PCC is a bit cheaper to shoot even with factory ammo.

Another reason for PCC could be to get some defense firearm when for cannot own a pistol.
 

AHM

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For those with the Ruger, what is the appeal to being able to remove the barrel ...
latest
... and more importantly is this a wear point and can accuracy degrade?
Hadn't heard of wear.

More on the field joint:
By all means do similar research on the Intarwebs -
maybe some issue has emerged over time,
or maybe the takedown system has become time-trusted.
 

Parker Schreiber

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huh, interesting. what what kind of a PPC folks use there, usually? a kel-tec?
considering i have a heckload of glock mags - what is the best one to think of? i know very little of that, as you can see - never cared to know. :)

I use a TNW Aero Survival Rifle. Depending on how you set it up, it uses Glock Magazines for 9mm, .357 sig, .40, 10mm, or .45. Would I call myself an aficionado? No, but before I got it the last thing I shot was a 16-gauge shotgun over 30 years ago. I wanted a home defense gun which met the following criteria:
  • Something I'd actually go to the range and shoot. I considered (and am still considering) a tactical shotgun, but I doubted I'd find it engaging to practice with. While I'll use a handgun as a carry weapon, for home defense I'd rather have a long gun.
  • I wanted a magazine fed semi-automatic weapon. Semi-automatic, because in a crisis, I didn't want to have to fumble with bolt or lever action after (inevitably) missing my first shot. Magazine fed, because I would rather store the gun unloaded but be able to load quickly.
  • I had a right shoulder injury a few years ago, and I was worried about straining it again.
  • I live in bleeping Massachusetts, which limited my AR-15 options. Not even Healey can claim the TNW is a copy of an AR-15. (An AR-7? Perhaps).
  • Happy wife, happy life. My wife was more comfortable with the idea of a PCC than an AR-15.
I don't expect to use my PCC at 100 yards, let alone 400 yards. But I enjoy shooting it, and it'll be there and get the job done if I need it.
 
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paul73

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If I was heavily invested in Glocks, I would definitely go with the Ruger PC, since it takes Glock mags. And I would be tempted to go with a standard stock and threaded barrel rather than a pistol grip. If you ever move to a free state, swapping stocks out is easy to do yourself. Getting a barrel threaded or removing a pin/welded brake is usually a gun smith operation.
makes total sense, quite a valid points, thx!
 

Kevin_NH

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For those with the Ruger, what is the appeal to being able to remove the barrel and more importantly is this a wear point and can accuracy degrade?
I doubt Ruger expects to sell very many PC Carbines, but there's a big market in non-AWB states for the PC Charger., where the takedown barrel allows for carbine-like short-range performance in a tiny package which, for example, in NH qualifies as a "pistol" under the CCW and loaded-firearm-in-vehicle laws. And then there's magazine interchangeability.

Violin cases are so 1920s, this puppy will fit into a Melodica case -- and ain't nobody stealing an air piano :)
 

M60

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I love my PCC's, but aside from seeing if I could actually do it in a range setting, I'd never realistically considering using it for defense past 100 yards max, and ideally it would be a sub 50 yard gun. Beyond that, I don't like my odds with the hold overs and wind effects. And if you were actually trying to use it at crazy 400 yard ranges and the person on the other end actually pulled out a real rifle, then you'd be F'd.
For defense, you'd probably have lots of explaining to do, if you were shooting at bad guys, from 100 yards out anyway.
 

M60

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I doubt Ruger expects to sell very many PC Carbines, but there's a big market in non-AWB states for the PC Charger., where the takedown barrel allows for carbine-like short-range performance in a tiny package which, for example, in NH qualifies as a "pistol" under the CCW and loaded-firearm-in-vehicle laws. And then there's magazine interchangeability.

Violin cases are so 1920s, this puppy will fit into a Melodica case -- and ain't nobody stealing an air piano :)

Ruger is selling the hell out of the Ruger PC9. Try to find a new one in your choice of configuration.
 

ReluctantDecoy

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For defense, you'd probably have lots of explaining to do, if you were shooting at bad guys, from 100 yards out anyway.

It was more a hypothetical coming off OP's video of "How far will a 9mm kill". For purposes of civil discussion, I would like to assume the scenario as a defensive one instead of just plain murder one.
 
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I don't expect to use my PCC at 100 yards, let alone 400 yards. But I enjoy shooting it, and it'll be there and get the job done if I need it.
[/QUOTE]

And this is the beauty of the pcc, up close and personal should the need arise and way down range just for hoots-depending on the glass ?
 

chris_1001

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I have an AR9 PCC I built. Mostly for idpa/uspsa competitions.

The controls are the same as a normal AR-15. It’s a fun range toy.

I’d build another AR9 before I got any other version of a PCC.
 
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