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PCC Advice

EddieZoom

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Anybody got any advice for someone looking to purchase and eventually compete (IDPA/USPSA) with a PCC ?

I have zero experience with them other than to watch others shoot them at matches.

I like the look/price of the Beretta CX4 Storm but reviews have not been kind.

Anything out there that is easily obtainable in MA for less than $1,000 ?
 
Anybody got any advice for someone looking to purchase and eventually compete (IDPA/USPSA) with a PCC ?

I have zero experience with them other than to watch others shoot them at matches.

I like the look/price of the Beretta CX4 Storm but reviews have not been kind.

Anything out there that is easily obtainable in MA for less than $1,000 ?
I'm guessing a Massified CZ Scorpion EVO might work. I'm looking into getting one more for fun but would also consider trying it in PCC. I don't think I want to have to Massify it, though, so it might stay in NH.

ETA: I know some people have run the new Ruger PCC. Not your standard form factor (no pistol grip, etc.) but should still work.
 
Also, I'm in your same kind of boat. I shoot rifles way more than pistols so I kind of want to try PCC since it looks fun, BUT one of the reasons I explored USPSA is to try to force myself to work on my (lack of) pistol skills. So going to PCC would kind of be self-defeating.

Nevertheless, would be fun to try it here or there, plus gives "a practical purpose" to me buying a Scorpion.
 
I don't have any experience with the Ruger PCC, but it is well below $1000 and easily available in MA.
Yep, and they come with an adapter for Glock mags, which are plentiful.

They might not look sexy, but could be a low-cost way to see if you like it.
 
Yep, and they come with an adapter for Glock mags, which are plentiful.

They might not look sexy, but could be a low-cost way to see if you like it.

They are releasing a few new models as well, maybe sexier?

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They are releasing a few new models as well, maybe sexier?

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Yes, I had heard of the free float one.
As a CZ fan plus a lefty, I'm gravitating towards the Scorpion for myself. Haven't decided on faux suppressor or regular barrel with compensator. I'm thinking the former might make MA use easier if I can pin/get a fixed stock. Less options for maybe running a real suppressor down the road though.

upload_2019-4-26_10-30-49.png

Also OP there's this thread if you haven't seen it yet. USPSA PCC ?
I’m planning to give it a try with a Ruger PC Carbine this season. It’s not the most practical gun for this game, but it’s a lot of fun to shoot and that’s all that ever matters to me.
 
I don't compete in PCC, but if I did I'd be looking for a Keltec Sub2000 that took G19 mags.

I don't either, but I do have a Sub2k 9mm. While it is a great gun for the price and easily falls within OP's budget, I have a feeling you'd need to dump in about $200-300 worth of parts if the goal is to be competitive with it. Factory trigger is kind of mushy and a little long, and the plastic actually flexes a bit. Full performance trigger job kit is like $225 at MCarbo. Partial kit starts at $139, excluding laser cut trigger bar and a few other things. You'd also most likely want a new charging handle, bolt tube cover, and extended mag release if serious about running for comp. But at that point, this gun is no longer a bargain. I personally would try to start with something a little nicer if I were seriously trying to be competitive. If just for fun though, then this could work.
 
Depends on your budget. I have an older HK94 clone and a CZ Scorpion. I find the HK94 clone lighter and easier to manipulate the safety. I have seen some new PTR HK 94 clones recently around $1700 here in MA. Plenty of pre-ban mags out there for the MP5.

 
while im a fan of the CX4 storm, the trigger is brutally heavy presumably due to blowback design need for heavy hammer spring. the ruger carbine has a light crisp trigger and heavier barrel, which together makes for fast shooting. i would go with the ruger especially in terms of value it's a win. the CZ scorpion is also excellent.
 
I don't either, but I do have a Sub2k 9mm. While it is a great gun for the price and easily falls within OP's budget, I have a feeling you'd need to dump in about $200-300 worth of parts if the goal is to be competitive with it...

Sounds about right. Could you still get in under $1k with the Sub2000 and have a comp-worthy gun, I guess is the question I should have asked. ;) I've only shot the gun before. Never owned one.

If it were allowed, I would love to try running through a few stages with my M1 carbine as PCC. Not gonna happen though.
 
Several shooters locally perform VERY well with the Ruger PCC. I think @SJan might be able to shed his experiences with PCC's in general at a competitive level.
 
Anybody got any advice for someone looking to purchase and eventually compete (IDPA/USPSA) with a PCC ?

I have zero experience with them other than to watch others shoot them at matches.

I like the look/price of the Beretta CX4 Storm but reviews have not been kind.

Anything out there that is easily obtainable in MA for less than $1,000 ?

The absolute best advice is to not buy anything until you’ve tried a few to see how they feel. While you can use any PCC to shoot a match with, some are significantly better than others. And since you have more of an entry level budget, I assume you don’t have the cash to buy the “wrong” PCC the first or second time you buy one. I’ve bought the “wrong” gun on more than one occasion, so I know what I’m talking about.

Depending on where you live, I can put a few PCCs in your hands to try, including the CX4 Storm, but I’ll tell you up front it’s the wrong gun to buy to shoot PCC matches with. If you already owned it, then it would work fine to let you go out and shoot. For the money, I’m not sure there’s a better PCC than the Ruger out there to get started with.
 
Sounds about right. Could you still get in under $1k with the Sub2000 and have a comp-worthy gun, I guess is the question I should have asked. ;) I've only shot the gun before. Never owned one.

If it were allowed, I would love to try running through a few stages with my M1 carbine as PCC. Not gonna happen though.

Most certainly able to get respectable results for well under $1k. The gun itself is around $400. The only question though is that at $600-700 ish after you upgrade parts, could you have just done better by buying a gun of that price rage? Wonder if a TNW Aero 9 with Glock mags would make more sense for this application. I have a feeling the side charging TNW would be easier to use in a competition setting over the Sub2k's awkwardly placed charging handle. For the record though, neither have last round bolt hold open.
 
There is no need for last round bolt hold in USPSA. Maybe IDPA, not sure of the rules in that game, if they still require 'slide lock' reloads in PCC...

To be competitive in USPSA PCC you will need and endless supply of ammo in one magazine. With the mostly adhered to maximum of 32 rounds a stage, you will want a dependable 40 round magazine. With 40 rounds on tap you will have extra rounds to hose away with. There are several sources of reliable extensions to achieve 40+ with a glock 30 round stick. RELIABLE is the key word.

Glock mags are the way to go, and the Ruger PCC is the only (sub $1000) glock fed lead dispenser that I consider capable nearly out of the box. Its trigger is good enough as is, its recoil is mild, it is lightweight and balances well. After installing a DPP or RTS2 on a barrel mount, buy Taccom upgrades as money allows (mag release, magwell, muzzle brake...)
Mag release and magwell will only improve your times where a mandatory reload is required, again, glock mags excel here.

Colt smg / modified uzi mag fed AR:
There is so much variation in manufactures of these mags combined with the slop in the adapters used in an AR pattern carbine, its amazing I got 6 out of over 30 magazine tubes to run reliably in my 3 seasons of shooting them. The double feed (vs glock single feed) is the issue with these. The height of the magazine relative to the feed ramp / barrel is super critical. They are also sensitive to bullet profile and cartridge overall length.

Keltec:
The only good thing is it can be had in a glock mag model. I see it as a novelty fold-able carbine. Great for backpacking or hiding under the seat of your car and having magazine interchangeability with your pistol. No great way to mount an optic. Ergronimics are horrible.

Scorpion:
Its a little heavy. The mag release is funky. The trigger sucks. Its very difficult to successfully seat a loaded magazine on a closed bolt (on a required reload stage) As far as I know the only trigger upgrade is from CZ custom and its quite expensive. +10 extensions are available for the 30 round mags but will need tuning.

MPX:
Pricey. 1st gen had lots of problems. 2nd gen still had problems. Heavy, needs an aftermarket trigger, but while also pricey, the mags are good. I am told the new 3rd gen PCC model is much better, lighter, not sure about the trigger.

AR varient:
Glock mag fed over any other. Endless possibilities available in factory complete carbine or assemble yourself. A factory complete quality carbine will be over your budget 1500+++ ( Limcat, JP, MBX) budget factory carbines are out there, but IMO not worth it when the Ruger is $500. If going the assemble yourself route, be prepared to spend extra money, time, and alcohol tinkering.
 
I don't either, but I do have a Sub2k 9mm. While it is a great gun for the price and easily falls within OP's budget, I have a feeling you'd need to dump in about $200-300 worth of parts if the goal is to be competitive with it. Factory trigger is kind of mushy and a little long, and the plastic actually flexes a bit. Full performance trigger job kit is like $225 at MCarbo. Partial kit starts at $139, excluding laser cut trigger bar and a few other things. You'd also most likely want a new charging handle, bolt tube cover, and extended mag release if serious about running for comp. But at that point, this gun is no longer a bargain. I personally would try to start with something a little nicer if I were seriously trying to be competitive. If just for fun though, then this could work.
THIS!! I have a sub2000 and it was quite uncomfortable/hard to shoot before I added a red dot and improved the trigger. The factory sights are almost impossible to use and get a proper cheek weld. I'll never get my money back that I put into it if I were to sell it but I don't plan on selling it as it's convenient that it folds up.
 
Keltec:
The only good thing is it can be had in a glock mag model. I see it as a novelty fold-able carbine. Great for backpacking or hiding under the seat of your car and having magazine interchangeability with your pistol. No great way to mount an optic. Ergronimics are horrible.
Agree with everything you said (all the reasons I bought it lol). But it's actually easy to mount an optic. Problem is the mount itself will cost you $100. I've got the midwest industries mount on mine and it's been rock solid so far (use loctite on the screws). In my opinion this is a must, in order to shoot the sub2000 accurately and comfortably.
MI-G2SUB-T2 <br>MI Gen2 SUB 2000 T1/T2 Optic Mount

Carry on. Didn't mean to turn the thread into a sub2000 discussion.

If I wanted to dabble into PCC to see what its like, I would totally grab a ruger without a doubt. I would not use my sub2000 - though it's tempting since it also takes G17 mags...
 
A compensator is actually functional. A faux suppressor just adds weight.
Of course; I'm just not thrilled about permanently welding it on a gun that would stay in NH 70% of the time, added to the fact I'd need to pin (or source) the stock, get 10rd mags, etc.
 
Keltec:
The only good thing is it can be had in a glock mag model. I see it as a novelty fold-able carbine. Great for backpacking or hiding under the seat of your car and having magazine interchangeability with your pistol. No great way to mount an optic. Ergronimics are horrible.

Red Lion Precision makes a nice (but expensive, for what it is) forend that screws to unlock so you can rotate the entire forend when folding the Sub2k with an optic. Maintains zero pretty well. But I agree without about the ergonomics of the Sub2k. Not really good at all. But then again, this gun wasn't made for comfort. It is kind of a one tricky pony. Something that folds up to a backpack size, but quickly deploys without too much fuss. In fact, when I first got the Sub2k, I started mounting all sorts of crap on it. I guess you can say I got a little mall ninja with it. I took a step back and thought about why I wanted it in the first place. Backup to my backup type of deal. Real SHTF grab and go. The closest to a concealed carbine as I will get. I have since de-cluttered it and am now on rail flip sights. Here it was in its mall ninja glory days though. That's the RLP forend with cheap no-name red dot. Wasn't going to buy a scope more expensive than the gun.

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Of course; I'm just not thrilled about permanently welding it on a gun that would stay in NH 70% of the time, added to the fact I'd need to pin (or source) the stock, get 10rd mags, etc.

I don’t see why you would need to permanently weld it. You are allowed one feature. Since the Ruger PC doesn’t have a pistol grip, it can have a threaded barrel. If it had a pistol grip, then the compensator would need to be welded.
 
I’d probably do the Ruger. Glock mags are great and it’s very affordable.

I really like the keltec but it’s too plasticky for competition. Mounting an optic on it sucks. It’s a great fun but not for this purpose.

Many other options will put you way over budget. That’s my main gripe with PCCs in general: they offer a really cool efficient option if you get one that shares ammo and magazines with your pistol. Meanwhile most options are expensive to make work and that sort of defeats the appeal to me.

The above solidifies my faith in the ruger.
 
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