Para Ordinance pistols

[highlander]

[
Morning all I have a question on Para Ordinance pistols.
Traded in a rifle at KTP yesterday and was giving thought to a S&W 1911 looked them over and handled a couple and was not that enamored with them'Remembered my buddy just bought a Para full sized and was quite happy with it so I ordered their version of the comander in 45acp what if any opinion does any one have on PO pistols.
The simple fact of carrying with hammer down and one in the chamber is nice but the other touches like beaver tail grip safety supported barrel helped make me feel I did the right thing
oh the pistol is SS also

 

[Executive]

Shoot someone else's first. While most on this forum absolutely go crazy for the 1911, I hated mine. It shot well, but I just did not like the feel of it. I sold it to a forum member who really likes it. If possible, try before you buy. My mistake cost me $100.00.


Chris

 

[dvajda]

I love mine

I have the Para OPS (Officer sized single stack 1911). I love it, I have nothing but good things to say about it. There was a definite 200-400 round breakin period for hollow point ammo (it didn't like to chamber first round off of magazine) but now it works like a dream. Like all 1911s, it is a little picky. For instance, mine will feed anything but Speer Gold Dots. It will do those too, but the reliability is not so great, sometimes the first round hits nose first under the chamber when i release the slide on a new magazine. This is because Gold Dots are actually shorter than almost any other round.

Anyway, out of the box, pistol worked perfectly with FMJ, Federal and American Eagle. It had no problems with Federal HP protection/HyrdaShok ammo, or the Remmington self defense stuff.

I would never carry with the hammer down, you are actually defeating two safeties, which is one of the dumbest things you can do. With the hammer down, you can't engage the thumb safety, and also with the hammer down, you are resting on the firing pin, defeating the "half cock" catch on the hammer (a notch that catches hammer if it falls without trigger being pulled, before it can hit firing pin). You end up completely relying on the internal firing pin safety. I would say that if you are afraid of having hammer back, don't get a 1911. Or at least do some research and realize that 1911s are MEANT to be carried with the hammer back, that is the safest way to carry them. You are putting yourself at risk, god forbid you wear down your firing pin safety over time using this method, and smack the back of the hammer, or let it slip while you are pulling it back (since you won't be racking the slide if you already have one in the pipe).

 

[Moderator]

The simple fact of carrying with hammer down and one in the chamber is nice

***Warning***
You can only do this with a LDA (light double action) model.If you try this with a standard single action 1911 Para you stand a good chance of accidentally shooting your self or somebody else.

 

[dwarven1]

I have a Para P12 (and used to have a Para P10). Love both. The ONLY reason I sold the P10 was because the muzzle flash was making me develop a flinch - the gun itself was very reliable.

I have every intention of owning more Paras in the future - an LDA is definitely on my list.

 

[FPrice]

I had a couple of Paras to include a C6 LDA. I could never warm up to them although both seemed to be good pistols so I eventually sold them all.

I second the advice to try one (or more) first if you can. That's good advice for any firearm really.

 

[Moderator]

I second the advice to try one (or more) first if you can. That's good advice for any firearm really.

+1,


Also, I have fallen in love with a Para or 2

 

[BillO]

Para

I'm not a 1911 fan, that is, umtil I bought my Para SSP/LDA. The trigger is something else.

 

[andy t]

***Warning***
You can only do this with a LDA (light double action) model.If you try this with a standard single action 1911 Para you stand a good chance of accidentally shooting your self or somebody else.

Greetings,

I thought that with a hammer down on a single action, it has to be cocked before firing. How would it increase the risk of an ND ?

Andrew.

 

[Len-2A Training]

Andrew, I think (for your own safety) you better do some reading on how the original 1911 mechanism works! Check on the forums with a search as I think there were some manuals, drawings, etc. that should help you answer that question.

 

[Moderator]

Andrew there is only one safe logical way to carry a 1911. "Condition One" aka "Cocked and Locked", this means a bullet in the chamber and the safety is on.

 

[highlander]

went back to para website and type01313 is correct on carrying in cond 1 cocked and locked.Thier standard modelmodel must be carried in this fashion LDA model can be carried with round in chamber hammer down. even so I still like the pistol for other reason previously stated

 

[C-pher]

You don't want to ask me about Paras...

I think that I have 7 or 8 of them...don't remember off hand. But I love them. Some single action, some LDA.

 

[M1911]

I thought that with a hammer down on a single action, it has to be cocked before firing. How would it increase the risk of an ND

Think about how you get it into that condition -- chamber full, hammer down. You have to charge chamber and then manually thumb down the hammer. Not good.

Paras could be safely carried hammer down -- they are series 80 so they have a firing pin safety. But why would you want to? Cocking the hammer is much harder than lowering the safety, particularly if the gun has a beavertail safety.

 

[Moderator]

Paras could be safely carried hammer down -- they are series 80 so they have a firing pin safety. But why would you want to? Cocking the hammer is much harder than lowering the safety, particularly if the gun has a beavertail safety.

It is still dangerous to perform this action. One slip and you just added a hole or two in a floor(s), wall(s), or person(s)

 

[M1911]

It is still dangerous to perform this action. One slip and you just added a hole or two in a floor(s), wall(s), or person(s)

Not on a Para. Para's are series 80, so they have a firing pin safety. That is, the firing pin can't move unless you pull the trigger to the rear.

So as long as you don't have your finger on the trigger, it won't go off if you slip while cocking the hammer.

 

[Moderator]

It is still dangerous to perform this action. One slip and you just added a hole or two in a floor(s), wall(s), or person(s)

Not on a Para. Para's are series 80, so they have a firing pin safety. That is, the firing pin can't move unless you pull the trigger to the rear.

So as long as you don't have your finger on the trigger, it won't go off if you slip while cocking the hammer.

That's absurd. You would be an idiot to do this. Any knowledgeable safety instructor would probably say the same. But FWIW I am more concerned about the hammer slipping while bringing it to a rest. Would you trust somebody doing this while the barrel is pointed at you?

 

[Adam_MA]

Mechanical safeties can and DO fail!

 

[M1911]

That's absurd. You would be an idiot to do this. Any knowledgeable safety instructor would probably say the same. But FWIW I am more concerned about the hammer slipping while bringing it to a rest. Would you trust somebody doing this while the barrel is pointed at you?

I am a knowledgeable NRA instructor certified to teach Basic Pistol, Home Firearm Safety, and Personal Protection.

I'm not advocating carrying hammer down. In fact, I'm advocating against it, which you will see if you read my post above. Furthermore, you'll see that I already mentioned the danger of an ND while lowering the hammer.

What I was pointing out was that a Series 80 will not discharge if the hammer slips from under your thumb PROVIDED you are not pulling the trigger at the same time. If you understand the difference between a Series 70 and Series 80 action, you will understand this. Any knowledgeable gunsmith would agree. And since the discussion at that point revolved around cocking the hammer (not decocking), chances are your finger would not be on the trigger.

Again, I'm not recommending this. The better way to carry a standard 1911 is cocked-and-locked.

Note that the Para LDA IS carried hammer down, as that is a different action.

Would you trust somebody doing this while the barrel is pointed at you?

Would you trust someone to point any gun at you, whether manipulating a hammer, a safety, a decocker, or just holding it? No? Well neither would I.

 

[Adam_MA]

What I was pointing out was that a Series 80 will not discharge if the hammer slips from under your thumb PROVIDED you are not pulling the trigger at the same time.

So... How exactly do you release the hammer from the cocked position to lower it without pulling the trigger?

 

[M1911]

So... How exactly do you release the hammer from the cocked position to lower it without pulling the trigger?

You have to pull the trigger initially, but you want to get your finger off the trigger ASAP. You don't hold the trigger back the entire time that you are lowering the hammer. Once you are past the half-cock notch, you can (and should) release the trigger.

Nevertheless, as Type01313 correctly points out, you can easily mess up and cause an accident while manaully decocking. This is NOT something I recommend doing. If you must manually decock:

1) be very careful
2) keep it pointed in a safe direction
3) If possible, keep your support thumb between the hammer and frame (only works for some guns).

It is worth pointing out that for DA/SA guns that have decockers, you should use the decocker instead of manually thumbing down the hammer.

Nevertheless, where this part of the thread started was around cocking the hammer, not decocking. If you slipped while cocking the gun and your finger was not on the trigger (as it should not be), then nothing bad will happen with a Series 80 1911.

Again, I AM NOT RECOMMENDING CARRYING CONDITION 2 -- it is at best pointless and at worst dangerous.

 

[SnakeEye]

ive been following this thread intently as ive planned on picking up a Slim Hawg in the near future.. as a lefty i can operate the thumb safety and push the slide lock release with my trigger finger ..
HOWEVER
you guys have totally scared the shit outta me, and maybe out of this purchase..
i didnt realise a 1911 style pistol was so dangerous to operate and carry.

so the only way to decock is to release the thumb safety, grip the backstrap safety and pull the trigger all whilst one is in the chamber!? Yikes..

 

[Len-2A Training]

HOWEVER you guys have totally scared the shit outta me, and maybe out of this purchase..
i didnt realise a 1911 style pistol was so dangerous to operate and carry.

It isn't if it is handled and carried PROPERLY!

The suggestions related to carrying it IMPROPERLY . . . and that is what brought the conversation to where it is now.

If you don't know how to properly carry any particular gun and how the "manual of arms" works, DO NOT CARRY IT until you learn the essentials properly.

There is NO room for carelessness or mistakes with firearms, EVER!

 

[M1911]

i didnt realise a 1911 style pistol was so dangerous to operate and carry.

so the only way to decock is to release the thumb safety, grip the backstrap safety and pull the trigger all whilst one is in the chamber!? Yikes..

I'm afraid that this discussion has possibly confused you. There is no reason to carry a 1911 hammer down on a full chamber. None at all. (Note that a Para LDA is a different beast).

Why do you want to decock a 1911? Frankly, there is absolutely no reason to do so.

When you carry it, you carry it chamber full, hammer cocked, and safety on. You put a magazine in the well, cycle the slide (which chambers the round and cocks the hammer), then apply the safety. Top up the magazine, double-check the safety, and you are ready to go.

To empty the gun, point in a safe direction, finger off trigger, remove magazine, lower the safety, cycle the slide to eject the round from the chamber, visually check the chamber, check the chamber again, one more time. Now dry fire it in a safe direction. You never had to manually decock it, did you?

I'm curious, though, why do you think a 1911 is more dangerous to carry then a Glock?

A series 80 1911 is no more or less dangerous to carry than any other gun. It can be safely carried and it can also be mishandled. Any gun is dangerous if mishandled.

 

[SnakeEye]

I'm afraid that this discussion has possibly confused you. There is no reason to carry a 1911 hammer down on a full chamber. None at all. (Note that a Para LDA is a different beast).

Why do you want to decock a 1911? Frankly, there is absolutely no reason to do so.

When you carry it, you carry it chamber full, hammer cocked, and safety on. You put a magazine in the well, cycle the slide (which chambers the round and cocks the hammer), then apply the safety. Top up the magazine, double-check the safety, and you are ready to go.

To empty the gun, point in a safe direction, finger off trigger, remove magazine, lower the safety, cycle the slide to eject the round from the chamber, visually check the chamber, check the chamber again, one more time. Now dry fire it in a safe direction. You never had to manually decock it, did you?

I'm curious, though, why do you think a 1911 is more dangerous to carry then a Glock?

never had the luxury of spending any quality time with a 1911 style pistol so you have to forgive my noobism on the subject.
the subject matter of this topic gave the impression that once you chambered a round and cocked the hammer the only way to remove it was to bring the hammer forward by pulling the trigger, and only then, would you be able to rack the slide. i didnt realize you could do that with the hammer in the rearward position..

 

[Moderator]

never had the luxury of spending any quality time with a 1911 style pistol so you have to forgive my noobism on the subject.
the subject matter of this topic gave the impression that once you chambered a round and cocked the hammer the only way to remove it was to bring the hammer forward by pulling the trigger, and only then, would you be able to rack the slide. i didnt realize you could do that with the hammer in the rearward position..

You can come shoot mine whenever I am free. I have scene more than a few people go and get a 1911 after trying one out. IMO the best handgun ever made. Removing a chambered cartridge is very easy.

1. Point the gun ion a safe direction
2. Make sure safety is off
3. Drop the magazine
4. Pull the slide back all the way. (this will extract the cartridge from the chamber)
5. Manually check to make sure there is no cartridge in the chamber.

 

[Moderator]

A series 80 1911 is no more or less dangerous to carry than any other gun. It can be safely carried and it can also be mishandled. Any gun is dangerous if mishandled.

I agree %100

 

[JimB]

carrying

As the other have already mentioned this can be done very easily. Know someone who owns one, meet them at the range and ask them for a demo.

Most guys have no problem with this.

JimB

 

[M1911]

As the other have already mentioned this can be done very easily. Know someone who owns one, meet them at the range and ask them for a demo.

Agreed.

Snakeye, if you make it down near Framingham some time, send me a pm. I'll be glad to take you to the range and show you a 1911.

the subject matter of this topic gave the impression that once you chambered a round and cocked the hammer the only way to remove it was to bring the hammer forward by pulling the trigger, and only then, would you be able to rack the slide.

The only thing unique to unloading a 1911 is that you have to turn off the safety before cycling the slide. When the safety is on, it prevents the slide from cycling.

 

[Buffalo Bill]

The nice thing about a 1911 is that they're usually single action, so you can carry it "cocked and locked", if that floats your boat. There is, however, no other option since it doesn't combine a double action option. Since I won't carry that way, any 1911 style for me is strictly for the range. On the up side, they are available in a wide range of sizes for carry purposes, albeit single action only. Para Ordinance is one company that comes to mind, and makes high quality firearms. I choose H&K USP Compacts to carry because they offer double/single action, and the option of carrying "cocked and locked". I call that a trifecta.